Berkeley "liberals" contra free speech

[J842P]

That women represents herself and the very few, probably handful, who are with her.

We learn nothing from history if we let white supremacists openly recruit and spread their ignorance.

Strafgesetzbuch section 86a

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch_section_86a

It's not really freedom if you aren't allowed to make your own decisions. At that point it's just a state allowance. I do think Milo is a problem who should be treated like the non-credible internet agitator he is, but the real problem is that we let people mislead each other, not that we let people come to their own conclusions and act on them.

Milo is not "a problem." Milo is a second-rate rhetorician who has discovered that is easy to make the campus left look like fools. I'm sure untermensche will swoop in and say "these people don't represent the left", but he is simply an old man who doesn't realize that the world keep turning and these people do in fact represent a large proportion of the left. I wish it wasn't so, but it is.

 

[LordKiran]

She has a vagina and speaks her mind.

So does she.

Your point is?

You couldn't pick a more flattering picture? Hah

 

[untermensche]

That women represents herself and the very few, probably handful, who are with her.

We learn nothing from history if we let white supremacists openly recruit and spread their ignorance.

Strafgesetzbuch section 86a

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch_section_86a

It's not really freedom if you aren't allowed to make your own decisions. At that point it's just a state allowance. I do think Milo is a problem who should be treated like the non-credible internet agitator he is, but the real problem is that we let people mislead each other, not that we let people come to their own conclusions and act on them.

Milo is not "a problem." Milo is a second-rate rhetorician who has discovered that is easy to make the campus left look like fools. I'm sure untermensche will swoop in and say "these people don't represent the left", but he is simply an old man who doesn't realize that the world keep turning and these people do in fact represent a large proportion of the left. I wish it wasn't so, but it is.

The left is not people.

The left is about giving the people more power. It is about increasing democracy.

This Milo character is a sideshow, and the people opposing him violently are helping him more than harming him.

But in terms of social issues facing the US one person not being able to speak at one University is minuscule.

 

[J842P]

That women represents herself and the very few, probably handful, who are with her.

We learn nothing from history if we let white supremacists openly recruit and spread their ignorance.

Strafgesetzbuch section 86a

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch_section_86a

It's not really freedom if you aren't allowed to make your own decisions. At that point it's just a state allowance. I do think Milo is a problem who should be treated like the non-credible internet agitator he is, but the real problem is that we let people mislead each other, not that we let people come to their own conclusions and act on them.

Milo is not "a problem." Milo is a second-rate rhetorician who has discovered that is easy to make the campus left look like fools. I'm sure untermensche will swoop in and say "these people don't represent the left", but he is simply an old man who doesn't realize that the world keep turning and these people do in fact represent a large proportion of the left. I wish it wasn't so, but it is.

The left is not people.

The left is about giving the people more power. It is about increasing democracy.

This Milo character is a sideshow, and the people opposing him violently are helping him more than harming him.

But in terms of social issues facing the US one person not being able to speak at one University is minuscule.

But the issue isn't *one person* not being allowed to speak at *one University*. It's a whole culture of campus leftism that has lost the fucking plot. As you note, this only empowers the right. It empowers them a great deal, because the vast majority of people who I like to call "centrist scum" care more about keeping "order" than anything else. And you better believe that they will quickly line up behind a right-wing "law and order" candidate. This is the problem. The problem is the modern left has their heads so far up their own asses that they cannot see how ineffective - rather, counter-effective - they have become. They live in their own bubble, a world born out of the echo-chamber of "critical theory" and "cultural studies" departments, which have long-ago jumped the shark. If you care about leftist ideals, then you should care about this, because it is a quickly growing rot at the core of them movement, and they will be stupidly tilting at windmills while the real fascists (not fucking Milo) use their incompetence to gain more and more power

 

[untermensche]

But the issue isn't *one person* not being allowed to speak at *one University*. It's a whole culture of campus leftism that has lost the fucking plot.

An incredibly small part of average university life.

A minuscule problem.

The government violently attacking one OWS protest after another was a real problem.

Rising costs of education is a real problem.

Shrinking opportunity is a real problem.

Endless overseas wars is a real problem.

One guy who can rant on YouTube or Twitter 24 hours a day not being able to give one speech is a very very small problem.

 

[whichphilosophy]

That women represents herself and the very few, probably handful, who are with her.

We learn nothing from history if we let white supremacists openly recruit and spread their ignorance.

Strafgesetzbuch section 86a

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch_section_86a

It's not really freedom if you aren't allowed to make your own decisions. At that point it's just a state allowance. I do think Milo is a problem who should be treated like the non-credible internet agitator he is, but the real problem is that we let people mislead each other, not that we let people come to their own conclusions and act on them.

Milo is not "a problem." Milo is a second-rate rhetorician who has discovered that is easy to make the campus left look like fools. I'm sure untermensche will swoop in and say "these people don't represent the left", but he is simply an old man who doesn't realize that the world keep turning and these people do in fact represent a large proportion of the left. I wish it wasn't so, but it is.

The left is not people.

The left is about giving the people more power. It is about increasing democracy.

This Milo character is a sideshow, and the people opposing him violently are helping him more than harming him.

But in terms of social issues facing the US one person not being able to speak at one University is minuscule.

I believe what we are seeing is not 'socialism' as in UK Labour Party and of that ilk. It seems pretty aggressive and violent.
The activists don't seem to be democrats but something directed from something more extreme.
One person not being able to speak at one University is serious because this is a starting point for censorship.

 

[TSwizzle]

Milo will be a guest on "Real Time" with Bill Maher on HBO. I seem to remember Bill was "dis-invited" from Berkeley not too long ago.

 

[KeepTalking]

One guy who can rant on YouTube or Twitter 24 hours a day not being able to give one speech is a very very small problem.

He can't rant on Twitter any more, they banned him.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Milo will be a guest on "Real Time" with Bill Maher on HBO. I seem to remember Bill was "dis-invited" from Berkeley not too long ago.

Well, I don't want to overreact, but it seems like the calm and sensible solution would be to flay Bill Maher alive and burn down his studio. Also, Maher has made several anti-Trump statements, so we're all on Trump's side now so that we don't associate ourselves with the man.

 

[ZiprHead]

I would qualify here as a lunatic.

Don't be so hard on yourself, WP.

 

[KeepTalking]

I would qualify here as a lunatic.

Don't be so hard on yourself, WP.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure WP would qualify anywhere as a lunatic.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Don't be so hard on yourself, WP.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure WP would qualify anywhere as a lunatic.

It should have said I would qualify her as a lunatic but I'm fine with this statement as well.
It really doesn't much matter whether she is left or right she's still acting insanely.

 

[untermensche]

I believe what we are seeing is not 'socialism' as in UK Labour Party and of that ilk. It seems pretty aggressive and violent.
The activists don't seem to be democrats but something directed from something more extreme.
One person not being able to speak at one University is serious because this is a starting point for censorship.

Seriousness of one incident is not equivalent to the seriousness of certain ideals.

The seriousness is judged on the totality of injustice in society as a whole.

In those terms this is practically invisible.

 

[KeepTalking]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure WP would qualify anywhere as a lunatic.

It should have said I would qualify her as a lunatic but I'm fine with this statement as well.
It really doesn't much matter whether she is left or right she's still acting insanely.

I'm glad you took it that way, I was just making a joke a la Caddyshack.
Though we don't often agree on political matters, I don't actually think you are a lunatic. Where we do agree is that the lady to whom you refer is a lunatic.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Milo will be a guest on "Real Time" with Bill Maher on HBO. I seem to remember Bill was "dis-invited" from Berkeley not too long ago.

Ex Muslim Atheist Ayaan Ali Hirsi has also been dis-invited from speaking in the US

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/10/brandeis-ayaan-hirsi-ali_n_5127792.html

 

[Nice Squirrel]

2014? Yawn.

 

[whichphilosophy]

2014? Yawn.

It's been going on for some time. 2014 is relatively recent in our history. We have this in the UK too.

So I shall quote from a forbidden news media also in 2014 Censorship against left and right is just as bad

https://www.rt.com/usa/169944-constitution-us-speech-education/


https://www.thefire.org/cases/citrus-college-stand-up-for-speech/

I'm still optimistic that the majority of colleges allow free speeches. However from little acorns......

 

[Nice Squirrel]

2014? Yawn.

It's been going on for some time. 2014 is relatively recent in our history. We have this in the UK too.

So I shall quote from a forbidden news media also in 2014 Censorship against left and right is just as bad

https://www.rt.com/usa/169944-constitution-us-speech-education/


https://www.thefire.org/cases/citrus-college-stand-up-for-speech/

I'm still optimistic that the majority of colleges allow free speeches. However from little acorns......

The Russian Times and FIRE are hardly unbiased sources.

 

[whichphilosophy]

It's been going on for some time. 2014 is relatively recent in our history. We have this in the UK too.

So I shall quote from a forbidden news media also in 2014 Censorship against left and right is just as bad

https://www.rt.com/usa/169944-constitution-us-speech-education/


https://www.thefire.org/cases/citrus-college-stand-up-for-speech/

I'm still optimistic that the majority of colleges allow free speeches. However from little acorns......

The Russian Times and FIRE are hardly unbiased sources.

It's hard to find unbiased sources. The question is whether the events are true.
However, the article could be fiction but I think the likelihood is simply to distort it in keeping with its Soviet heritage.
My last comment is I am still optimistic that the majority of colleges allow free speeches. Are most colleges encouraging dialogue and allowing some on the right, and ex-Muslims to speak at Universities, especially if invited.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Funny thing, somebody brought up FIRE today in our Higher Ed Law class tonight and there was a collective groan.