Betsy DeVos and School Vouchers

[Elixir]

I'd bet a testicle it's more than double that.

Are you short one? Or do want to have three?

 

[dismal]

The baseline was not zero. For spending it was $57,602. As it clearly says on the chart legend on the right.

FIFY

I went to public school and I could figure that one out.

...and they say public schools are no good!
I bet you can spell better than Betsy, too!

Full disclosure: I also went to two private universities. But in fairness the mistakes being made here generally seem like 6th grade reading comprehension fails.

 

[LordKiran]

So question: How does introducing CEO and executive salaries reduce the cost of education again?

Also why does the cost of education need to go down?

Do we just magically assume that the cost it takes to educate children to succeed and contribute in a modern society costs the same as it did 40 years ago?

 

[Elixir]

FIFY

I went to public school and I could figure that one out.

...and they say public schools are no good!
I bet you can spell better than Betsy, too!

Full disclosure: I also went to two private universities. But in fairness the mistakes being made here generally seem like 6th grade reading comprehension fails.

Full disclosure? Okay...

I went to ten (10) schools in grades 1-12, 5 public, 5 private. And I never graduated high school. Did take some Uni courses at L'University de Touraine and CU Boulder later on. The very best instruction I ever received was in 6th grade, in the public school serving Radnor County PA (Wayne Elementary). A math teacher kept me after school for 2 weeks (I was disruptive) and got me WAY past the curriculum in that time, even introducing me to calculus and the whole concept of tensors...
FULL FULL disclosure; those schools aren't as good as they were, according to my wife's family who still have kids in that system.

Do we just magically assume that the cost it takes to educate children to succeed and contribute in a modern society costs the same as it did 40 years ago?

Right. And is the ROI still acceptable?

 

[coloradoatheist]

So question: How does introducing CEO and executive salaries reduce the cost of education again?

Also why does the cost of education need to go down?

Do we just magically assume that the cost it takes to educate children to succeed and contribute in a modern society costs the same as it did 40 years ago?

The question is do the costs given for private schools include or exclude those costs? If it costs $7K per student even with the high salaries compared to $14K per public school, it doesn't matter.

 

[LordKiran]

So question: How does introducing CEO and executive salaries reduce the cost of education again?

Also why does the cost of education need to go down?

Do we just magically assume that the cost it takes to educate children to succeed and contribute in a modern society costs the same as it did 40 years ago?

The question is do the costs given for private schools include or exclude those costs? If it costs $7K per student even with the high salaries compared to $14K per public school, it doesn't matter.

Are you pulling these numbers from anywhere specifically or are they hypothetical?

How do you know that the rule of "You get what you pay for" won't rear it's head to bite you in the ass?

Another important aspect of for-profit anything is that "What it costs" is not the same as "What you pay" by the by. What is there to stop an enterprising for-profit school owner from starting with the average cost of a public education as a baseline and reducing the cost of the service he/she provides as much as they could get away with and pocketing the rest?

 

[ZiprHead]

Two points:

My niece graduated with honors and a two year college scholarship from a charter high school. It's considered one of the best schools in the state.

I won't speak about the validity of Cato's graph but schools, beginning in the early seventies started teaching many more things than reading, writing and mathematics. Career training became a big part of high school academics. Auto mechanics, culinary arts, HVAC and many others. Our county built an extensive complex devoted to just that sort of skills teaching. Today, now we are also teaching computers, coding and robotics. It takes a lot of money to fund those courses.

Actually, upon rethinking that, I will take exception to Cato's graph. Not including the above facts when creating the graph seems pretty dishonest.

ETA: Betsy DeVos is a cunt who has no business being anywhere near administering education.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I'd bet a testicle it's more than double that.

Are you short one? Or do want to have three?

Since he refuses to be critical of Twitler, I'd say, he's got none.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

How would a population change affect the cost on a per student basis? If anything, economies of scale should tend to decrease average costs per student a little bit (think textbook costs, for example, and greater buying power overall in many situations). That is even more damning.

The words wrap so I misread them.

What you're looking at is the special ed budget.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

How would a population change affect the cost on a per student basis? If anything, economies of scale should tend to decrease average costs per student a little bit (think textbook costs, for example, and greater buying power overall in many situations). That is even more damning.

The words wrap so I misread them.

What you're looking at is the special ed budget.

What we are looking for is the peculiar reason the cost rises nearly linearly through 8 Presidents.

 

[dismal]

The words wrap so I misread them.

What you're looking at is the special ed budget.

What we are looking for is the peculiar reason the cost rises nearly linearly through 8 Presidents.

The federal government is a small percentage of education spending.

I went to public school and even I know that.

 

[bilby]

Well while we are in the business of taking shit graphs seriously, I would just like to point out that if the trend continues, the entire world economic output will be spent on educating American children within a couple of centuries, and that test scores will still be much the same as they are today, despite the fact that students are all dying of starvation because there's no money left over for food production.

Or perhaps shit graphs are just shit.

 

[dismal]

Well while we are in the business of taking shit graphs seriously, I would just like to point out that if the trend continues, the entire world economic output will be spent on educating American children within a couple of centuries, and that test scores will still be much the same as they are today, despite the fact that students are all dying of starvation because there's no money left over for food production.

Or perhaps shit graphs are just shit.

According to my calculations real cost per student would have to increase roughly 2.7% per year to triple every 41 years.

While this perhaps could not be sustained forever, it seems like this could be sustained for a very, very, very long time in an economy growing at a roughly similar pace.

None of which really speaks to the point of the chart, which is that it has already been going on for 41 years without much discernible benefit to show for it in terms of test scores.

On the plus side, you did say the word "shit" a lot.

 

[bilby]

Well while we are in the business of taking shit graphs seriously, I would just like to point out that if the trend continues, the entire world economic output will be spent on educating American children within a couple of centuries, and that test scores will still be much the same as they are today, despite the fact that students are all dying of starvation because there's no money left over for food production.

Or perhaps shit graphs are just shit.

According to my calculations real cost per student would have to increase roughly 2.7% per year to triple every 41 years.

While this perhaps could not be sustained forever, it seems like this could be sustained for a very, very, very long time in an economy growing at a roughly similar pace.

None of which really speaks to the point of the chart, which is that it has already been going on for 41 years without much discernible benefit to show for it in terms of test scores.

On the plus side, you did say the word "shit" a lot.

It's almost as though improving test scores in a triplet of basic skills were not the only purpose of education spending.

But if that were true, the graph would be rendered meaningless shit.

 

[dismal]

According to my calculations real cost per student would have to increase roughly 2.7% per year to triple every 41 years.

While this perhaps could not be sustained forever, it seems like this could be sustained for a very, very, very long time in an economy growing at a roughly similar pace.

None of which really speaks to the point of the chart, which is that it has already been going on for 41 years without much discernible benefit to show for it in terms of test scores.

On the plus side, you did say the word "shit" a lot.

It's almost as though improving test scores in a triplet of basic skills were not the only purpose of education spending.

But if that were true, the graph would be rendered meaningless shit.

So, then, what did we get in return for tripling the real spending per student?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

So, then, what did we get in return for tripling the real spending per student?

A pool of voters who elected Trump. That's some shitty ROI.

 

[bilby]

It's almost as though improving test scores in a triplet of basic skills were not the only purpose of education spending.

But if that were true, the graph would be rendered meaningless shit.

So, then, what did we get in return for tripling the real spending per student?

I don't know the details - you should ask a teacher. But I am aware that there are skills expected of school leavers today that didn't even exist in the 1970s.

That you start with the assumption that only the test scores in the most basic subjects are important says more about you than it does about education spending. As does your unjustified assumption of competence in an area you don't work in (or did you recently move into the education sector?)

You have a history of (well founded) objections to unqualified people making incorrect assumptions about the oil industry in these boards. But you seem oblivious to the fact that you are making the same error here with regards to education.

 

[dismal]

So, then, what did we get in return for tripling the real spending per student?

I don't know the details - you should ask a teacher. But I am aware that there are skills expected of school leavers today that didn't even exist in the 1970s.

That you start with the assumption that only the test scores in the most basic subjects are important says more about you than it does about education spending. As does your unjustified assumption of competence in an area you don't work in (or did you recently move into the education sector?)

You have a history of (well founded) objections to unqualified people making incorrect assumptions about the oil industry in these boards. But you seem oblivious to the fact that you are making the same error here with regards to education.

I was closer to a 1970 graduation than a 2011 one, so I'm not sure I'm the one to ask what current students get that is worth so much more than what I got.

I seem to recall "lots more administrators" coming up in past discussions of where the fuck (I put that in for you since you seem to think fucking curse words make your argument better shit) all that money is spent.

 

[bilby]

I don't know the details - you should ask a teacher. But I am aware that there are skills expected of school leavers today that didn't even exist in the 1970s.

That you start with the assumption that only the test scores in the most basic subjects are important says more about you than it does about education spending. As does your unjustified assumption of competence in an area you don't work in (or did you recently move into the education sector?)

You have a history of (well founded) objections to unqualified people making incorrect assumptions about the oil industry in these boards. But you seem oblivious to the fact that you are making the same error here with regards to education.

I was closer to a 1970 graduation than a 2011 one, so I'm not sure I'm the one to ask what current students get that is worth so much more than what I got.

I seem to recall "lots more administrators" coming up in past discussions of where the fuck (I put that in for you since you seem to think fucking curse words make your argument better shit) all that money is spent.

I can't believe that you think 'shit' is a curse word. Perhaps an American education is overrated.

 

[Playball40]

All I know is our education system in this country is bullshit. It is not about teaching children (I believe it IS for the teachers and administrations at the school level) but that's where it ends. After that, it becomes a SWEEEEEEEET machine for PROFIT PROFIT PROFIT.