Biden and racism in the criminal justice system

[ronburgundy]

Just to get it immediately out of the way, there is no way that a Biden presidency wouldn't be better than another 4 years of white supremacy enabling, explicitly pro-fascist policing Trump. I quite frankly can't imagine anything Biden could plausibly do to make himself even an equal let alone worse option.

That said, Biden's law-and-order legislation certainly has some major problems, especially his drug policies. There are lot's of criticisms of Biden regarding his legislative role in the incarceration of black people. Critics point to racial disparities in sentencing (about 2 months difference on 5-10 years sentences), and there are large racial disparities in incarnation rates.

However, even though it is still way too high, the incarceration rate of black men has declined 32% over the past 2 decades, and the racial disparity in rates has declined by 35%, though still massive.
It's even more dramatic for women. The incarceration rate for women has dropped about 60% since 2000, and the racial disparity cut by 75%.

So, how can Biden's legislation of 25 years ago be a main contributor to incarceration rate disparities that have drastically declined over the past 20 years?

Then there is the fact that he authored the Violence Against Women Act. Intimate partner violence has declined 75% since that legislation (based upon surveys of victims, so it's not just reduced willingness to press charges). And the rates at which black women are victimized by domestic violence are 50%-100% higher than for white women (largely due to SES). So, black women are especially helped by this legislation. Also, it means that some of the incarcerated men of all races are deservingly there b/c they are rapists and spouse-beaters. And while the higher rates of domestic violence by black men (even according to the anonymous victim reporting of their spouses) would produce higher incarceration rates for black men, that is a byproduct of the systemic economic problems producing SES differences and not a flaw in the crime legislation.

As I started by saying, I'm not denying that there is plenty to criticize Biden on regarding his crime bills (the crack-cocaine sentencing disparity being a glaring problem). But the overall effects of all his legislation on racial disparities and impact on black communities is far from clear cut, and some of it positive.

https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/incarcerated-women-and-girls/

 

[Worldtraveller]

It also seems that Biden has learned a lot since way back when, so there's that. I don't get holding his distant past against him now. Lots of people (myself included) used to behave terribly, in terms of racism and sexism, than we do now, based on ignorance and the surroundings in which we grew up.

Sure, keep an eye on him to make sure he's not saying one thing and doing another, but he seems pretty genuinely to have learned a lot in the last ~30+ years.

 

[Politesse]

Then there is the fact that he authored the Violence Against Women Act. Intimate partner violence has declined 75% since that legislation (based upon surveys of victims, so it's not just reduced willingness to press charges). And the rates at which black women are victimized by domestic violence are 50%-100% higher than for white women (largely due to SES). So, black women are especially helped by this legislation. Also, it means that some of the incarcerated men of all races are deservingly there b/c they are rapists and spouse-beaters. And while the higher rates of domestic violence by black men (even according to the anonymous victim reporting of their spouses) would produce higher incarceration rates for black men, that is a byproduct of the systemic economic problems producing SES differences and not a flaw in the crime legislation.

He didn't author it. He facilitated its writing and advanced it to the floor, certainly. But he had the sense to step aside and let educated women lead on the actual writing of the bill, which I appreciate. The task force thus formed was organized by and helped establish a more influential role for the lobby now known as the National Organization for Women (NOW), which continues to lead in the creation of pro-social legislation on Capitol Hill.

 

[Elixir]

....there is no way that a Biden presidency wouldn't be better than another 4 years of white supremacy enabling, explicitly pro-fascist policing Trump.

Maybe Jason can help out with that. He thinks Trump is better than Bush.

After you remove all the idiotic Russian Conspiracy Theory, you are left with "Trump continued it" versus "Bush started it".

Sure if you don't respond to my questions and just make shit up about the well evidenced collusion in broad daylight between Russia and the Trump campaign.
FWIW I thought Bush Junior was the worst President up to that point in my life. A real dimwit. But I think be believes himself to be a patriotic American. Trump knows he's not - he tries to act like one for the camera, but his allegiance is to his own wallet which in turn depends on the graces of Russian oligarchs. Russia wants to destroy the US and Trump is eagerly helping them do just that.

In truth, you can ignore all the Russia stuff and you are still left with these facts that you might want to address as being "not so bad":

Bush didn't fire people who were trying to investigate him - Trump did.
Bush didn't intimidate witnesses to his actions - Trump did.
Bush didn't ignore congressional subpoenas or fire all oversight personnel - Trump did.
Bush didn't install "acting" toadies in every position of power so they didn't have to be qualified at all, and he could fire them at a whim - Trump did
Bush didn't blatantly and constantly violate the emoluments clause - Trump did.
Bush didn't hold secret un-recorded meetings with foreign adversaries with whom he was trying to make personal financial deals or hide his tax returns - Trump did.
Bush didn't get caught trying to blackmail a foreign leader into manufacturing specious dirt on a political opponent - Trump did.


Whether Bush actually started the ME wars is subject to debate. But he was in office for 8 years and didn't do any of the above anti-American shit...
At this rate the US won't even exist as a democracy if Trump is re-elected.

 

[J842P]

....there is no way that a Biden presidency wouldn't be better than another 4 years of white supremacy enabling, explicitly pro-fascist policing Trump.

Maybe Jason can help out with that. He thinks Trump is better than Bush.

After you remove all the idiotic Russian Conspiracy Theory, you are left with "Trump continued it" versus "Bush started it".

Sure if you don't respond to my questions and just make shit up about the well evidenced collusion in broad daylight between Russia and the Trump campaign.
FWIW I thought Bush Junior was the worst President up to that point in my life. A real dimwit. But I think be believes himself to be a patriotic American. Trump knows he's not - he tries to act like one for the camera, but his allegiance is to his own wallet which in turn depends on the graces of Russian oligarchs. Russia wants to destroy the US and Trump is eagerly helping them do just that.

In truth, you can ignore all the Russia stuff and you are still left with these facts that you might want to address as being "not so bad":

Bush didn't fire people who were trying to investigate him - Trump did.
Bush didn't intimidate witnesses to his actions - Trump did.
Bush didn't ignore congressional subpoenas or fire all oversight personnel - Trump did.
Bush didn't install "acting" toadies in every position of power so they didn't have to be qualified at all, and he could fire them at a whim - Trump did
Bush didn't blatantly and constantly violate the emoluments clause - Trump did.
Bush didn't hold secret un-recorded meetings with foreign adversaries with whom he was trying to make personal financial deals or hide his tax returns - Trump did.
Bush didn't get caught trying to blackmail a foreign leader into manufacturing specious dirt on a political opponent - Trump did.


Whether Bush actually started the ME wars is subject to debate. But he was in office for 8 years and didn't do any of the above anti-American shit...
At this rate the US won't even exist as a democracy if Trump is re-elected.

None of this holds a candle to the monumental disaster that was (and continues to be) the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, and the overall global war on terrorism. Not even close.

 

[Elixir]

None of this holds a candle to the monumental disaster that was (and continues to be) the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, and the overall global war on terrorism. Not even close.

Thank you for your simplistic opinion.

Mine is that at the time, those were unprecedented fuckups. But none of those fuckups ever posed an existential threat to the very fundamental concept of a representative democracy or to the American electoral, law enforcement and intelligence apparatus that supports it. What Trump is doing isn't a fuckup, it's a concise expression of his malicious intent. That makes it truly dangerous.

I will also opine that the basis of the value judgment you summarily render, rests on the devaluation of democracy. Don't get me wrong, I agree that it sucks. As some have pointed out though, beats the hell out of other forms of government.