Bipartisan fascists go after Backpage et al

[Toni]

SESTA is effecting more than Backpage.

Does anybody have any honest numbers on women forced into prostitution via these sites? Or is it just an article of faith that all prostitutes are forced?

What proportion of prostitutes would have to be forced in order for it to make a difference?

First I would like to see if there are any. Is that kind of information available?

It's hard to come up with reliable numbers as sex work itself is largely illegal and trafficking is illegal and therefore often underground and invisible.

That said, here's a couple of links:

https://humantraffickinghotline.org/states

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...trafficking-goes-unnoticed-in-america/470166/


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_trafficking_in_the_United_States

I've posted this in similar discussions but will again. It's worth reading the various viewpoints by clicking on the various points of view along the left side:

https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordeba...riminal-laws-are-the-solution-to-prostitution

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

SESTA is effecting more than Backpage.

Does anybody have any honest numbers on women forced into prostitution via these sites? Or is it just an article of faith that all prostitutes are forced?

What proportion of prostitutes would have to be forced in order for it to make a difference?

First I would like to see if there are any. Is that kind of information available?

Sure, there are some. Are they the majority as people here claim. I very much doubt it.

A similar question could be asked: How many women have to be coerced into getting an abortion for it to make a difference? Would we ever see those on the left who seek to ban prostitution seek to ban abortion? I say on the left because those on the right already do.

 

[Toni]

First I would like to see if there are any. Is that kind of information available?

Sure, there are some. Are they the majority as people here claim. I very much doubt it.

A similar question could be asked: How many women have to be coerced into getting an abortion for it to make a difference? Would we ever see those on the left who seek to ban prostitution seek to ban abortion? I say on the left because those on the right already do.

I don't recall anyone here stating that a majority of prostitutes are forced into prostitution.

I do recall people asking what portion of forced/trafficked prostitution would make it unacceptable.

I don't recall an answer to that, but maybe I missed it.

 

[laughing dog]

A similar question could be asked: How many women have to be coerced into getting an abortion for it to make a difference? Would we ever see those on the left who seek to ban prostitution seek to ban abortion? I say on the left because those on the right already do.

Instead of derailing this thread with yet another inept attempt at analogy, how about answering a question that has been asked a number of times - what portion of forced/trafficked prostitution would make it unacceptable.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

A similar question could be asked: How many women have to be coerced into getting an abortion for it to make a difference? Would we ever see those on the left who seek to ban prostitution seek to ban abortion? I say on the left because those on the right already do.

Instead of derailing this thread with yet another inept attempt at analogy, how about answering a question that has been asked a number of times - what portion of forced/trafficked prostitution would make it unacceptable.

1% for me. No amount of forced prostitution is acceptable.

 

[bilby]

A similar question could be asked: How many women have to be coerced into getting an abortion for it to make a difference? Would we ever see those on the left who seek to ban prostitution seek to ban abortion? I say on the left because those on the right already do.

Instead of derailing this thread with yet another inept attempt at analogy, how about answering a question that has been asked a number of times - what portion of forced/trafficked prostitution would make it unacceptable.

1% for me. No amount of forced prostitution is acceptable.

There's probably no way to get to zero - although that shouldn't stop us from trying, and from getting as close to that goal as possible.

Of course, that gets us back to the question "Does prohibition move things in the right direction, towards less trafficking and less force; Or in the wrong direction?" and historically, the answer to that question for most activities for which there is a large demand is that prohibition makes things worse, not better. What little evidence there is from around the world, where different legal frameworks (from complete prohibition, through decriminalization and legalization with various levels of strict regulation, to a total absence of any effective controls) seems to indicate that lawful, but highly regulated, sex work minimizes trafficking and violence; While prohibition causes not only more of this kind of harm, but also leads to an increase in other crime - just as we see with the prohibition of drugs and alcohol.

The naive idea that if something is prohibited in law, it won't happen in reality, is not one that any adult should seriously entertain.

Ultimately it doesn't matter what level of trafficking, coercion or force people are prepared to tolerate; For all but the most extreme sociopaths, the goal is to get that level as close to zero as possible. The question is, how can that goal best be achieved?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Ultimately it doesn't matter what level of trafficking, coercion or force people are prepared to tolerate; For all but the most extreme sociopaths, the goal is to get that level as close to zero as possible. The question is, how can that goal best be achieved?

Well, the main way is to get the industry out of the shadows and into the light. While it's run by unaccountable criminals, there's not going to be any kind of improvement.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Ultimately it doesn't matter what level of trafficking, coercion or force people are prepared to tolerate; For all but the most extreme sociopaths, the goal is to get that level as close to zero as possible. The question is, how can that goal best be achieved?

As well as at what cost. These measures rarely come cost free in terms of freedom as well as in term of tax dollars as well as in terms other social problems being created or worsened. You could go truly extreme if you wanted to, and castrate all males at birth.

 

[bilby]

Ultimately it doesn't matter what level of trafficking, coercion or force people are prepared to tolerate; For all but the most extreme sociopaths, the goal is to get that level as close to zero as possible. The question is, how can that goal best be achieved?

As well as at what cost. These measures rarely come cost free in terms of freedom as well as in term of tax dollars as well as in terms other social problems being created or worsened. You could go truly extreme if you wanted to, and castrate all males at birth.

I am pretty sure I couldn't. They would likely arrest me by the time I got to the third of fourth maternity hospital.

 

[southernhybrid]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/republicans-and-democrats-just-did-something-big-together/2018/04/11/38e90810-3cef-11e8-974f-aacd97698cef_story.html?utm_term=.82155ac131f1

I haven't read the entire thread, but apparently sites like Backpage are so harmful that it actually inspired a bipartisan act.

Take heart — the two parties just did do something big together. On Wednesday, President Trump will sign into law the Stop Enabling Sex Traffickers Act , a bill designed to crack down on websites that knowingly facilitate the online sex trafficking of vulnerable persons, including underage boys and girls. And the FBI, informed by evidence collected during a nearly two-year bipartisan investigation by the Senate’s Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, just seized the website Backpage.com — which the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children says is responsible for 73 percent of the 10,000 child sex trafficking reports it receives each year — and arrested seven of its top executives.

Amazing. They actually did a two year study before they decided that Backpage.com was doing a lot of damage to innocent children. I really don't understand how any decent person would defend Backpage. Is evidence that this site was responsible for 73% of child sex trafficking of children not enough to ban the site?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...acd97698cef_story.html?utm_term=.82155ac131f1

I haven't read the entire thread, but apparently sites like Backpage are so harmful that it actually inspired a bipartisan act.

*points quietly to OP Title"

Amazing. They actually did a two year study before they decided that Backpage.com was doing a lot of damage to innocent children. I really don't understand how any decent person would defend Backpage. Is evidence that this site was responsible for 73% of child sex trafficking of children not enough to ban the site?

But it had many other legitimate uses like help Derec get some.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...acd97698cef_story.html?utm_term=.82155ac131f1

Why do you post a link with a pay wall?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

what portion of forced/trafficked prostitution would make it unacceptable.

Forced / trafficked prostitution is always unacceptable. Why would you think otherwise?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...acd97698cef_story.html?utm_term=.82155ac131f1

Why do you post a link with a pay wall?

It is an opinion contribution at the Post. There is nowhere else to link to.

 

[southernhybrid]

Ultimately it doesn't matter what level of trafficking, coercion or force people are prepared to tolerate; For all but the most extreme sociopaths, the goal is to get that level as close to zero as possible. The question is, how can that goal best be achieved?

As well as at what cost. These measures rarely come cost free in terms of freedom as well as in term of tax dollars as well as in terms other social problems being created or worsened. You could go truly extreme if you wanted to, and castrate all males at birth.

Freedom? Seriously?That's just nuts. The only freedom in question here is the freedom of women and young children. They have absolutely no freedom when it comes to being used and manipulated, coerced and imprisoned, so that some male can get his rocks off. Does banning sites like Backpage stop all aspects of this problem? Of course not, but it's wrong to simply turn our backs on things that facilitate criminal behavior. Freedom is never absolute. There are lots of things that we don't have the freedom to do, so pretending that this is an attack on one's freedom. That is quite a distortion of the word freedom.

And you know what guys? Why can't a lonely man without a partner do what a lot of women do. Buy a bottle of high quality lube, and fantasize. It works for women, so why not men? Get some good sex toys while you're at it. And while I think of it, what if there aren't enough women who want to sell you sexual favors? What then? Women are under no obligation to service men, so stop acting like we are.

 

[laughing dog]

what portion of forced/trafficked prostitution would make it unacceptable.

Forced / trafficked prostitution is always unacceptable. Why would you think otherwise?

Because there are posters arguing for policies that enable forced/trafficked prostitution. The OP is a perfect example. Backpage refused to take down its ads for illegal prostitution, so it is shut down. Yet there are people whining about sanction that is the result of a violation of law on the basis that it "enfringes on freedom". Every sanction of a violation of a law is an enfringement of freedom, yet that does stop the usual suspects for their illogical complaiints.

 

[starwater]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...acd97698cef_story.html?utm_term=.82155ac131f1

I haven't read the entire thread, but apparently sites like Backpage are so harmful that it actually inspired a bipartisan act.

*points quietly to OP Title"

Amazing. They actually did a two year study before they decided that Backpage.com was doing a lot of damage to innocent children. I really don't understand how any decent person would defend Backpage. Is evidence that this site was responsible for 73% of child sex trafficking of children not enough to ban the site?

But it had many other legitimate uses like help Derec get some.

And support his anti-woman agenda.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

And you know what guys? Why can't a lonely man without a partner do what a lot of women do. Buy a bottle of high quality lube, and fantasize. It works for women, so why not men? Get some good sex toys while you're at it. And while I think of it, what if there aren't enough women who want to sell you sexual favors? What then? Women are under no obligation to service men, so stop acting like we are.

Nobody said that you are, but shouldn't your fellow women (and men) be allowed to do it for profit if they want to? Nobody said we should encourage or permit sex trafficking either.

 

[ZiprHead]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...acd97698cef_story.html?utm_term=.82155ac131f1

Why do you post a link with a pay wall?

Open in incognito window.

 

[laughing dog]

And you know what guys? Why can't a lonely man without a partner do what a lot of women do. Buy a bottle of high quality lube, and fantasize. It works for women, so why not men? Get some good sex toys while you're at it. And while I think of it, what if there aren't enough women who want to sell you sexual favors? What then? Women are under no obligation to service men, so stop acting like we are.

Nobody said that you are, but shouldn't your fellow women (and men) be allowed to do it for profit if they want to? Nobody said we should encourage or permit sex trafficking either.

Until you tie this into the actual OP, it seems you are complaining about a straw man.