Black Woman calling a White Woman a "Karen"

[Loren Pechtel]

Without a smoking gun there's no meaningful recourse. So long as the racism favors the disadvantaged it's a major uphill battle to do anything about it.

I literally don't even want to know what you mean there. I really don't. Quite honestly, I often wonder if you might actually be suffering from some form of what could be called a delusion. I can only describe your posts as routinely somewhat detached from reality.

If a non-white is discriminated against the EEOC is likely to get involved. If a white is discriminated against nothing will be done unless they bring their own lawsuit. (For example, see the lawsuits because cities threw out hiring/promotion exams that selected too great a percentage of whites. A clear smoking gun.)

 

[ruby sparks]

Without a smoking gun there's no meaningful recourse. So long as the racism favors the disadvantaged it's a major uphill battle to do anything about it.

I literally don't even want to know what you mean there. I really don't. Quite honestly, I often wonder if you might actually be suffering from some form of what could be called a delusion. I can only describe your posts as routinely somewhat detached from reality.

If a non-white is discriminated against the EEOC is likely to get involved. If a white is discriminated against nothing will be done unless they bring their own lawsuit. (For example, see the lawsuits because cities threw out hiring/promotion exams that selected too great a percentage of whites. A clear smoking gun.)

Still don't see your underlying point, whatever it is. Is it something to do with racism supposedly overall favouring blacks, or is it that racism against blacks has disappeared, or is it to do with the problem in black communities merely being attitudes of black parents? Or did a black woman somewhere get smacked in the face by a white policeman and you saw her hitting him first? Or do you have some more dodgy statistics about police shootings for us? Basically, which load of complete rubbish is it this time around?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If a non-white is discriminated against the EEOC is likely to get involved. If a white is discriminated against nothing will be done unless they bring their own lawsuit. (For example, see the lawsuits because cities threw out hiring/promotion exams that selected too great a percentage of whites. A clear smoking gun.)

Still don't see your underlying point, whatever it is. Is it something to do with racism supposedly overall favouring blacks, or is it that racism against blacks has disappeared, or is it to do with the problem in black communities merely being attitudes of black parents? Or did a black woman somewhere get smacked in the face by a white policeman and you saw her hitting him first? Or do you have some more dodgy statistics about police shootings for us? Basically, which load of complete rubbish is it this time around?

In other words, you have no answer.

 

[ruby sparks]

If a non-white is discriminated against the EEOC is likely to get involved. If a white is discriminated against nothing will be done unless they bring their own lawsuit. (For example, see the lawsuits because cities threw out hiring/promotion exams that selected too great a percentage of whites. A clear smoking gun.)

Still don't see your underlying point, whatever it is. Is it something to do with racism supposedly overall favouring blacks, or is it that racism against blacks has disappeared, or is it to do with the problem in black communities merely being attitudes of black parents? Or did a black woman somewhere get smacked in the face by a white policeman and you saw her hitting him first? Or do you have some more dodgy statistics about police shootings for us? Basically, which load of complete rubbish is it this time around?

In other words, you have no answer.

You've been given good answers, and evidence, hundreds of times. They just bounce off your denialism.

It's ok. Taking you seriously is impossible, so from now on, I'm just going to assume you're not being serious. Possibly you've been lampooning people who do actually hold ludicrous views by pretending to have them yourself. If so, very good. Clever. Took me ages to work it out. 'Racism favours the disadvantaged'. 'She hit him first'. 'Racism against blacks has disappeared'. Lol. How did I not get it? Duh me.

 

[Gospel]

I am not only against generalizing hatred I'm also against hatred in general. My intention was to point out the differences between what black people consider racism from whites vs what whites consider racism from blacks. The word Karen being compared to nigger sparked my making said comparison. My intention was not to claim that one is racism and the other is not based on the severity but to simply say the word Karen does not have the history of institutionalized racism that nigger (and it's cousin nigga) does. Just a simple distinction I find genuinely hilarious even now. If you look at the definition of nigger it actually has hatred in it. Karen (yet to be determined) amounts to being called a spoiled brat. Whether or not the person using the term Karen hates the person they are using it against will need elaboration. Nigger on the other hand is stand alone.

No, it certainly doesn't have the history of racism attached to it. It has very little history at this point. I'd rather not allow it to gain a history. If I had a time machine, I'd go back and make the same argument with respect to nearly every identity-based slur ever used.

The n-word didn't initially begin as a hatred-laden term. It was initially descriptive, having it's roots in various romantic languages like the Spanish "negro" which means "black". It began being used as a racial epithet sometime in the late 1700s. If there's a clear racial connotation for a newly coined term that doesn't have a long and sordid history... do we really need to give it a couple hundred years before we try to squash it? How about we just go ahead and nip it in the bud now?

I agree with the sentiment and thanks for the reminder on the N-words deeper history. The views I've shared on the subject here should be taken into consideration so as to not be surprised when folks seem to not care. It's not that I don't care it just that having experienced racism myself beyond a word (like nigger which I've become numb to) far as long as I can remember during my 40ish years on earth, I have the natural tendency to find Karen being such an issue hilarious. I mean no malice.

 

[Rhea]

Emily, You sort of answer your own question in your prior post.

I'm also, by the way, rather firmly against generalizing hatred and derision toward an entire group of people on the basis of their color:
[...]
You seem to be quite comfortable with just assuming that all white people are abusive racists. It seems to allow you to disregard harm done to any individual white person... because seemingly they deserve it for having been born white?

Can you show me where I ever suggested anything about "all white people"?

Oh, okay. No, you definitely didn't explicitly and specifically say "All White People". You just used the very broadly generic term "White People" combined with insinuations that these "White People" make a habit of abusing and oppressing "Black People". Should I assume that you mean "Not All Black People" as well? Or would you perhaps like to amend your statement so that your ire (which isn't unreasonable, btw) is targeted at "WHITE PEOPLE WHO DO THESE THINGS" rather than at a vague generalized group of people? Or perhaps you'd like to identify the specific people to whom you're referring who use their privilege and power to abuse others?

For consideration... I'm quite certain that if someone else had written a screed expressing their complete disregard for any bad things that happen to a generalized "black people" group, with even less venom than you've expressed... nearly all of us (including you) would have jumped their ass in a millisecond if they trotted out "show me where I said ALL black people" as a defense for their statement.

I am not only against generalizing hatred I'm also against hatred in general. My intention was to point out the differences between what black people consider racism from whites vs what whites consider racism from blacks. The word Karen being compared to nigger sparked my making said comparison. My intention was not to claim that one is racism and the other is not based on the severity but to simply say the word Karen does not have the history of institutionalized racism that nigger (and it's cousin nigga) does. Just a simple distinction I find genuinely hilarious even now. If you look at the definition of nigger it actually has hatred in it. Karen (yet to be determined) amounts to being called a spoiled brat. Whether or not the person using the term Karen hates the person they are using it against will need elaboration. Nigger on the other hand is stand alone.

No, it certainly doesn't have the history of racism attached to it. It has very little history at this point. I'd rather not allow it to gain a history. If I had a time machine, I'd go back and make the same argument with respect to nearly every identity-based slur ever used.

The n-word didn't initially begin as a hatred-laden term. It was initially descriptive, having it's roots in various romantic languages like the Spanish "negro" which means "black". It began being used as a racial epithet sometime in the late 1700s. If there's a clear racial connotation for a newly coined term that doesn't have a long and sordid history... do we really need to give it a couple hundred years before we try to squash it? How about we just go ahead and nip it in the bud now?

And Emily - that is why “Karen” is nothing like the N-word.

Karen does not now, and never in its infant life has, implied “all white people.” While the N-word, by its very definition and roots, always has. Part of its vileness is because it meant and means, “any Black person.”

And you are arguing that “Karen” is just as bad, while it is absolutelu obvious that using “Karen” against certain white people would result in people saying, “wut? That’s not what that means.”

A fat redneck white woman smoking a cheroot - not a Karen.
Ruth Bader Ginsburg - not a Karen
A homeless white woman with paranoia - not a Karen
A shy introverted white woman - not a Karen

In any of those cases, if you called them a “Karen” people would say, “wut? That’s not what Karen means.”

Karen MEANS a white woman with aggressive entitlement issues. That’s what it means.

To try to call it “just as bad” as the N-word is a case of, dare I say, “aggressive entitlement,” wouldn’t you agree?

 

[ruby sparks]

I hope, and I'd be very surprised if it was not the case, that absolutely no one here would be so daft as to say this term is on a par or even close to being on a par with the N word. I don't think anyone has said it is.

ETA: Emily may in some ways have seemed to do that, but I don't think she actually did. I read it more as only saying that words can become something they don't necessarily start out as.