Breitbart: rape now means "any sex that the woman ends up regretting"

[Jolly_Penguin]

A wife has no obligation to provide sex on demand; neither does a husband. Same for girlfriends, boyfriends, mistresses, gigolos, brothers, sisters, and random strangers. And anyway, legal entanglements and promises to love, honor, and sexually satisfy aren't the issue. The issue is coercion.

Nobody here is saying that anybody has any obligation to have sex. We are just saying that lots of people in many situations also have no obligation to provide money or support. If they offer support or money (that isn't owed) in exchange for a service, that's simply called doing business. Why should it be deemed coercion if that service is sexual?

 

[Arctish]

A wife has no obligation to provide sex on demand; neither does a husband. Same for girlfriends, boyfriends, mistresses, gigolos, brothers, sisters, and random strangers. And anyway, legal entanglements and promises to love, honor, and sexually satisfy aren't the issue. The issue is coercion.

Nobody here is saying that anybody has any obligation to have sex. We are just saying that lots of people in many situations also have no obligation to provide money or support. If they offer support or money (that isn't owed) in exchange for a service, that's simply called doing business. Why should it be deemed coercion if that service is sexual?

It's not.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

A wife has no obligation to provide sex on demand; neither does a husband. Same for girlfriends, boyfriends, mistresses, gigolos, brothers, sisters, and random strangers. And anyway, legal entanglements and promises to love, honor, and sexually satisfy aren't the issue. The issue is coercion.

Nobody here is saying that anybody has any obligation to have sex. We are just saying that lots of people in many situations also have no obligation to provide money or support. If they offer support or money (that isn't owed) in exchange for a service, that's simply called doing business. Why should it be deemed coercion if that service is sexual?

It's not.

Then we appear to be misunderstanding what each other has written here.

 

[Arctish]

Nobody here is saying that anybody has any obligation to have sex. We are just saying that lots of people in many situations also have no obligation to provide money or support. If they offer support or money (that isn't owed) in exchange for a service, that's simply called doing business. Why should it be deemed coercion if that service is sexual?

It's not.

Then we appear to be misunderstanding what each other has written here.

That was my thought too.

I'm talking about coercion: the use of force or intimidation to obtain compliance; the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.

You appear to be talking about the free and open exchange of goods and services, and prostitution.

 

[Playball40]

When you look at the definition some feminists use that's what it amounts to.

However, that's not mainstream opinion.

Prove it. Show me one.

 

[Playball40]

And some men love violating unconscious women due to a sense of entitlement.

Violating unconscious women would be sexual assault or rape, depending on circumstances. But lately many innocent guys have been expelled from colleges for consensual drunken hookups where both parties were drunk, but fully conscious.

If she is not able to consent for being drunk, why is the same standard not applied to the drunk guy, leading to expulsion of both?

No, it would be rape/assault in ALL CIRCUMSTANCES <snip>.

 

[OLDMAN]

1. There are a few here who say the same thing
2. Is it any surprise that Breitbart is filled with rapey rapers who rape?

Not at all. I'm just hoping people will remember this the next time conservatives go on a "Boy, them thar Mosslems shore hate wimmen! Them thar Mooslems are bad because they is all mean ta wimmenz!" tirade. Funny how treating women badly is only bad when other people are doing it.

This is a good point. We definitely over sexualize women in western cultures. And we generally do it without giving them the power. The problem is most women don't respond to the mating rituals of spiders. Where the male cautiously approaches and then tries to mount and escape before he is eaten. lol

 

[Derec]

This is a good point. We definitely over sexualize women in western cultures.

How so?

And we generally do it without giving them the power.

What are you talking about? Women have a lot of power in the West.

- - - Updated - - -

No, it would be rape/assault in ALL CIRCUMSTANCES <snip>.

<snip> Of course it would be one or the other in all circumstances, but which one depends on the jurisdiction (definitions differ) and what exactly was done. I.e. it depends on the circumstances.

 

[Derec]

I'm talking about coercion: the use of force or intimidation to obtain compliance; the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.

Nobody should be forced to stay in a relationship where their needs, including sexual needs are not met. A man (or a woman for that matter) threatening to leave a relationship unless things change is not coercive in the sense that it makes the change in sexual behavior nonconsensual.

If a woman threatens to leave a relationship unless the man does more of the housework, and he agrees, is that forced labor? Under your twisted brand of "logic", it would be.

 

[Derec]

And that's why using the threat of withdrawing support to coerce sex is wrong, and the sex that results isn't really consensual.

Your relative's ex is wrong for not paying the mortgage if that was the argeement. But other than that, and caring for his kids, he should not have to continue to provide support to an ex.

- - - Updated - - -

So she accuses him of rape the next day Absurd

Why do you think it's absurd? False rape accusations happen all the damn time!

 

[Derec]

There is a rank fear of women at the core of this issue.

Some men rape. Some women make false allegations of rape. Why is acknowledging the latter somehow a sign of "rank fear of women"?
Both men and women can be bad people.

A woman's power to dispense sexual favors, or deny them, is coupled with her power to claim such favors were stolen. Some men are threatened by the very idea.

That is because the idea of being falsely accused of rape is an inherently threatening idea.

In order for this mindset to exist, there must be a firm conviction that a woman is basically malevolent, and always looking for some way to inflict pain on a man.

Nonsense. By that logic, claiming that some men are rapists you must be of a mindset to have a firm conviction that a man is basically malevolent, and always looking for some way to inflict pain on a woman.

There are bad men and women. The problem in our society is that it primarily sees women as innocent victims and men as violators even when it's the other way around.

 

[Derec]

Post - WITH LINK TO A FACTUAL SOURCE - any feminist who defines "rape" as "any sex that the woman ends up regretting that she had".

Do not trot out your handful of real or imagined "false rape claims" because that is not what Breitbart's jackass was quoted as saying, nor what Loren claims "some feminists" "define" as rape.

Beyond that, I have zero intention of discussing your hobbyhorses with you, so don't start.

We've seen survey questions that counted as rape any sex she didn't want--even if it was fully consensual.

Really? Post a link to factual source

(I won't hold my breath, and I reject your claim)

Realities and mythologies of rape

 

[RavenSky]

So she accuses him of rape the next day Absurd

Why do you think it's absurd? False rape accusations happen all the damn time!

You know what happens far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far more than false rape accusations?

Rape.

The rape of women and men and children.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

A wife has no obligation to provide sex on demand; neither does a husband. Same for girlfriends, boyfriends, mistresses, gigolos, brothers, sisters, and random strangers. And anyway, legal entanglements and promises to love, honor, and sexually satisfy aren't the issue. The issue is coercion.

There are some people who use the threat of financial ruin to coerce others into sex.

There are some people who use the threat of violence to do the same.

There are some people who use the threat of public humiliation, of loss of access to other family members, and similar unpleasantries to force others to comply with their wishes. We generally call those people abusive assholes, and we call what they do coercion. People who submit to demands for sex under those circumstances are not consenting, they are unwilling participants trying to find the least awful way out of a bad situation.

You persist on focusing on half the issue and ignoring the other half.

Yes, she has no obligation to provide sex on demand. However, in general he has no obligation to provide support.

It is not rape or coercion if he specifies the conditions under which he's willing to provide that support, even if those conditions include sex. She has no legally-protected right to be a leech.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And some men love violating unconscious women due to a sense of entitlement.

Violating unconscious women would be sexual assault or rape, depending on circumstances. But lately many innocent guys have been expelled from colleges for consensual drunken hookups where both parties were drunk, but fully conscious.

If she is not able to consent for being drunk, why is the same standard not applied to the drunk guy, leading to expulsion of both?

No, it would be rape/assault in ALL CIRCUMSTANCES <snip>.

Apparently his point went over your head.

These situations typically involve alcohol consumption on both sides. If she can't consent due to the alcohol then he can't, either--both violated the code, expel them both.

 

[Derec]

This quote by a feminist and former provost at Vassar is very fitting to the discussion of broadening the definition of "rape":

Catherine Comins, assistant dean of student life at Vassar, also sees some value in this loose use of "rape." She says angry victims of various forms of sexual intimidation cry rape to regain their sense of power. "To use the word carefully would be to be careful for the sake of the violator, and the survivors don't care a hoot about him." Comins argues that men who are unjustly accused can sometimes gain from the experience. "They have a lot of pain, but it is not a pain that I would necessarily have spared them. I think it ideally initiates a process of self-exploration. 'How do I see women?' 'If I didn't violate her, could I have?' 'Do I have the potential to do to her what they say I did?' Those are good questions."

Cover Stories Behavior: When Is It RAPE?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So she accuses him of rape the next day Absurd

Why do you think it's absurd? False rape accusations happen all the damn time!

You know what happens far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far more than false rape accusations?

Rape.

The rape of women and men and children.

The lowest reasonable estimate of the false rape reporting rate is 8%.

 

[ruby sparks]

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51-hepLP8J4[/YOUTUBE]

 

[RavenSky]

Calling for clean-up on aisle 5!

and aisle 6!

and 9!

 

[RavenSky]

Derec is NOT the topic of this thread. It doesn't matter if you are attacking him or posting screeds about how misunderstood he is - it is a derail

Screaming "liar" at other members is still a violation of TOU. So is calling other people "moron".

All of the derailing posts have been MOVED, not "censored". They are all right here and available for continuation of the same: https://talkfreethought.org/showthread.php?5874-Derec-Hobbyhorse-Derail-Thread-Women

Any post containing "feminazi", "Vassar", "Mattress Girl", "naziesque", etc is almost certainly a hobby-horse derail or other type of TOU violation, and since we were forced to clean up in here anyway, those posts got moved, too.

Yes, I am quite sure that I moved some decent conversation along with the shit. My apologies. There was too much shit to be picking through for the decent stuff. C&P the decent stuff without the shit if you like.

Oh, and I lied. I did "censor" one member for calling another one a "moron". I am fairly certain that she will forgive me.

/ monster mod