BRITONS IN THE UK ARE SECOND CLASS CITIZENS BY EURO-FARCICAL LAWS

[bilby]

The laws 'imposed' by the EU ARE English Law, under the terms of the various treaties signed by the UK.

Your objections are moronic and childish.

Your solution (Brexit) is VASTLY more harmful than the status quo; it leaves those who you describe as 'second class' with their status completely unchanged; and ignores an easy and trivially disruptive fix that could be applied by the UK government without reference to the EU.

Grow up.

The rights imposed by the EU are European Law. English laws still exist until overridden by the EU. One of the reasons for BREXIT winning the vote is the UK wants to make its own laws by its own parliaments to avoid less cock ups.

Britain still does make its own laws by its own parliaments, and always* has. Amongst those laws is the requirement to comply with her obligations under international treaties, including the various EU treaties. The EU does not override English Laws, EU laws apply to the UK to the extent allowed for in EU treaties that form a PART OF English Law.

The UK Parliament certainly manages to avoid less cock ups too, although I'm fairly sure you didn't actually mean to say that.

Where there is a conflict between EU law and UK Law, EU Law prevails. Anyway the current government is too busy toadying up to the EU to contemplate anything. It was the vote and not the government which chose BREXIT.

By a tiny majority, in an non-binding referendum, based on a campaign of shocking lies. And as the courts have determined, it is not up to either the voters nor the government to choose Brexit. That is entirely the responsibility of Parliament, under British Law.

It does strike me as strange that people who want Brexit because they feel that they have no say in decisions made in Brussels (under the influence of elected MEPs), are so supportive of the idea of a decision on such a vitally important issue being left to an un-elected Prime Minister in Downing Street without reference to elected MPs.

There is no doubt whatsoever that the UK is better off inside the EU than she can possibly be outside it. Most of the purported benefits of Brexit are either pure fiction, wishful thinking, or only appealing to neo-fascists. To throw away membership of, and a leading role in, one of the world's largest and most powerful trading blocs in favour of pointless jingoism and imaginary benefits is batshit insane.

You need to grow up.






*since Britain has existed as a political entity

 

[Will Wiley]

The issue, very clearly stated in the OP, is that governments are treating their own citizens as second rate. Why would a non-citizen of the UK be given more right and privilege than a citizen of the UK? What other countries in the world do that?

NO, the issue is that the UK government treats their own citizens in accordance with their own rules; and (due to treaty obligations) treats citizens of other EU nations better. The UK citizen isn't being treated badly; the EU citizen is merely being treated even better.

It's pretty easy to see why people did not like that

 

[bilby]

NO, the issue is that the UK government treats their own citizens in accordance with their own rules; and (due to treaty obligations) treats citizens of other EU nations better. The UK citizen isn't being treated badly; the EU citizen is merely being treated even better.

It's pretty easy to see why people did not like that

And even easier to see that the solution is to bring everyone up to the same level, rather than spitting the dummy and running away without addressing the issue at all.

 

[Canard DuJour]

You are griping because others can do something you want to be able to do. And your preferred solution is to let NOBODY do it; and to take your bat and your ball and go home and refuse to play anymore. That's seriously fucking childish.

Grow up.

If non Nationals can do something that Nationals cannot doe then that is discriminatory. If this was discrimination against ethnic minorities there would rightly be discriminatory. British is nothing to do with ethnicity but citizenship.

Then the discrimination is by British law, not EU law (as others point out)

Say Saudi Arabia didn't allow women to drive, have jobs etc, but Britain had secured a treaty allowing British expat women to do these things. Meanwhile Saudi women in Britain enjoyed all the same rights as men. Would you then say that British law discriminates against women? No, that'd be nonsense, the discrimination is clearly by Saudi law.

 

[Will Wiley]

It's pretty easy to see why people did not like that

And even easier to see that the solution is to bring everyone up to the same level, rather than spitting the dummy and running away without addressing the issue at all.

Do you think there is much hope British politicians will do the best thing next time if they get a chance? Or do something stupid again?

 

[Axulus]

NO, the issue is that the UK government treats their own citizens in accordance with their own rules; and (due to treaty obligations) treats citizens of other EU nations better. The UK citizen isn't being treated badly; the EU citizen is merely being treated even better.

Complaining that the UK citizen is treated as 'second rate' is fucking stupid - they are being treated just as they always were, in accordance with UK law.

IF we accept that this is sufficiently unfair as to require action, then there are TWO options to fix it - Change UK immigration law to treat UK citizens better, by giving them the same rights that citizens of other EU nations have; or abandon the EU altogether.

Only a total fucking MORON would say that the latter is the better of these options.

The laws are imposed by the EU which override English Law.

The EU law does not say that the UK isn't allowed to pass a law giving UK citizens the same benefits/privledges as EU citizens in the UK on this matter as far as I can tell. It is the UK that has chosen to restrict its own people in this way.

 

[crispy]

By BRITON it is meant any person who is a British citizen of any ethnicity whether born in the UK or became a citizen.
Refugees are welcome in the UK and entitled an equal right which is as it should be.

However there is an imbalance:
Any EU citizen in the UK is entitled to bring in a non-EU spouse no matter what he earns or doesn’t. A British citizen is not permitted to bring in a non-EU spouse if he earns less than £18,600.00 in case he is burden on the system. This is thanks to EU Laws which have made Britons into second class citizens.

You do realize its actually british law preventing low paid british citizens from bringing a spouse right?

 

[whichphilosophy]

Maybe they earned 2nd Class status with their decision to give the EU the finger?
Just like Americans earned the right to get fucked by Uncle Vlad with their choice...

This was a few years before BREXIT and may be in part a contribution to the finger based on EU conduct
There may be spying and stealing files by the Russians but there is no evidence that somehow the Russians changed the election. Since Clinton's emails were not secured on the Whitehouse Server it seems a lot of people had easy access.

- - - Updated - - -

By BRITON it is meant any person who is a British citizen of any ethnicity whether born in the UK or became a citizen.
Refugees are welcome in the UK and entitled an equal right which is as it should be.

However there is an imbalance:
Any EU citizen in the UK is entitled to bring in a non-EU spouse no matter what he earns or doesn’t. A British citizen is not permitted to bring in a non-EU spouse if he earns less than £18,600.00 in case he is burden on the system. This is thanks to EU Laws which have made Britons into second class citizens.

You do realize its actually british law preventing low paid british citizens from bringing a spouse right?

It doesn't prevent low paid Europeans bringing their spouse nor refugees bringing their spouse. The law should equal for all.

 

[whichphilosophy]

The laws are imposed by the EU which override English Law.

The EU law does not say that the UK isn't allowed to pass a law giving UK citizens the same benefits/privledges as EU citizens in the UK on this matter as far as I can tell. It is the UK that has chosen to restrict its own people in this way.

Where there is a conflict between EU Law and UK Law, EU Law prevails. I believe there is a legal challenge. The government isn't responsive as Teresa May was busy grovelling in Saudi Arabia. Now that Saudi is bombing several targets in Yemen again no doubt it needs more British fighters and ammunition.

 

[crispy]

]

You do realize its actually british law preventing low paid british citizens from bringing a spouse right?

It doesn't prevent low paid Europeans bringing their spouse nor refugees bringing their spouse. The law should equal for all.

Just don't blame the EU for that situation. Its purely the UK's own decision to treat its own citizens worse than the rest of the EU does.

 

[whichphilosophy]

And even easier to see that the solution is to bring everyone up to the same level, rather than spitting the dummy and running away without addressing the issue at all.

Do you think there is much hope British politicians will do the best thing next time if they get a chance? Or do something stupid again?

Of course they will do more stupid things.

 

[whichphilosophy]

And refugees get free second-hand clothing from charities, while citizens get nothing. Homeless people get free meals from soup kitchens, but try getting a free meal when you are obviously well off, and they treat you like shit. It's all just so UNFAIR. It makes me want to hurl myself on the ground and kick and scream.

How DARE people less well off than me expect special treatment.

Poor English were getting this long before the refugees came and still do. All poor people have access to food banks if they want. Why would someone look smart at a food kitchen but I doubt if they will be rejected. Some homeless people do actually dress nicely. There are places also for them to have a bath and breakfast.

However this has no relationship to the points I raised.

 

[whichphilosophy]

NO, the issue is that the UK government treats their own citizens in accordance with their own rules; and (due to treaty obligations) treats citizens of other EU nations better. The UK citizen isn't being treated badly; the EU citizen is merely being treated even better.

It's pretty easy to see why people did not like that

Bilby seems to think the EU legislation which works against some Britons is a British law.

 

[skepticalbip]

It's pretty easy to see why people did not like that

Bilby seems to think the EU legislation which works against some Britons is a British law.

From what I understand, the EU regulations put one hell of a dent in the British fishing industry too.

ETA:
Us yanks get little news from US media of what is going on in the rest of the world. The last I heard, the establishment in parliament were still resisting going through with Brexit and there was a lot of political maneuvering to block it. Does it look like the UK will actually separate from the EU or does it look like the establishment politicians will prevail?

 

[crispy]

It's pretty easy to see why people did not like that

Bilby seems to think the EU legislation which works against some Britons is a British law.

Technically it is UK law, as the UK actually has a law that says treat brits like this, and EU citizens the other way. The UK has this law because they had chosen to become members of the EU which, in part, requires members to have that law about the EU citizens.

Little OT though: I am wondering, could a brit actually go to the EU court to get the same rights?

 

[whichphilosophy]

Bilby seems to think the EU legislation which works against some Britons is a British law.

From what I understand, the EU regulations put one hell of a dent in the British fishing industry too.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...te-great-relief-for-uk-fishing-industry-lords

An interesting article.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Bilby seems to think the EU legislation which works against some Britons is a British law.

Technically it is UK law, as the UK actually has a law that says treat brits like this, and EU citizens the other way. The UK has this law because they had chosen to become members of the EU which, in part, requires members to have that law about the EU citizens.

Little OT though: I am wondering, could a brit actually go to the EU court to get the same rights?

There is a legal challenge but I have been trying to see when this will convene.

 

[J842P]

Are you replying to this post or something else.

A Briton who is a citizen of the UK cannot bring in a spouse if his income is less than 18,600.00 but someone who is not a Briton can. This is called equality not who gets the ice cream.

Refugees rightly must have equal rights and EU citizens in gainful employment must have equal rights but Britons due to the EU do not. No wonder the British voted against the Jack-ass's of Brussels.

You are griping because others can do something you want to be able to do. And your preferred solution is to let NOBODY do it; and to take your bat and your ball and go home and refuse to play anymore. That's seriously fucking childish.

Grow up.

Well, you are leaving out the third option, that he believes neither group should be allowed.

 

[Malintent]

It's pretty easy to see why people did not like that

And even easier to see that the solution is to bring everyone up to the same level, rather than spitting the dummy and running away without addressing the issue at all.

Bilby, you forgot to say, "grow up". I can only assume you don't feel strongly about this. If you don't say "grow up" then we have no way of knowing how you really feel... You might as well have ended your post with, "ah, never mind".

 

[J842P]

Maybe they earned 2nd Class status with their decision to give the EU the finger?
Just like Americans earned the right to get fucked by Uncle Vlad with their choice...

Oh for fuck's sake. This neo-Red scare is the last straw for me as far as the Dems are concerned. They really are a just Neo-cons who don't try to court the religious right.