CA Reparations Task Force

[Gospel]

Did that happen with the Japanese, Native Americans or Israel?

The only Japanese people who received reparations were those who were actually detained. Native Americans don't get reparations; some have reservations. And Israel. We don't pay reparations to Israel. Creating a racial spoils system is the road to ruin.

Reparations is: The making of amends for a wrong one has done, by paying money to or otherwise helping those who have been wronged.

I give you that. The $150 billion for Israel is not reparations because America didn't do it to make amends. But they did however do it to help those who have been wronged. I thought I covered that already in my earlier statement. What I'm saying is I don't see you in particular complaining about money going towards a wrong America did not commit when it comes to Israel but you have issues with black people who have been wronged by America getting money because it is somehow blaming you personally for it (by way I presume of your tax money).

 

[Gospel]

The only Japanese people who received reparations were those who were actually detained.

Oh, and I wonder how they achieved that? It wasn't by waiting until they were all dead and gone right?

 

[Gospel]

Native Americans don't get reparations; some have reservations.

So the Indian Reorganization Act was fan fiction?

 

[Oleg]

Did that happen with the Japanese, Native Americans or Israel?

The only Japanese people who received reparations were those who were actually detained. Native Americans don't get reparations; some have reservations. And Israel. We don't pay reparations to Israel. Creating a racial spoils system is the road to ruin.

Reparations is: The making of amends for a wrong one has done, by paying money to or otherwise helping those who have been wronged.

I give you that. The $150 billion for Israel is not reparations because America didn't do it to make amends. But they did however do it to help those who have been wronged. I thought I covered that already in my earlier statement. What I'm saying is I don't see you in particular complaining about money going towards a wrong America did not commit when it comes to Israel but you have issues with black people who have been wronged by America getting money because it is somehow blaming you personally for it (by way I presume of your tax money).

For Israel, you mean this?

U.S. to Pay Out New Reparations for Holocaust

The State Department announced on Wednesday that additional reparation payments would be made to victims of the Holocaust.

freebeacon.com

The reparations program was established by the United States with France under agreements relating to the deportation of Jews by the French government during the Holocaust.

France provided $60 million to the United States to distribute to Holocaust survivors and their living families under the agreement.

So people who actually suffered harm are compensated? Makes sense.

 

[Oleg]

The only Japanese people who received reparations were those who were actually detained.

Oh, and I wonder how they achieved that? It wasn't by waiting until they were all dead and gone right?

Huh? Reparations go to those who were actually harmed. Not laughing heirs.

 

[Gospel]

So people who actually suffered harm are compensated? Makes sense.

The residual effects of a wrong that has never been addressed still lingers around. If you can't see that I can't help you.

 

[Oleg]

So people who actually suffered harm are compensated? Makes sense.

The residual effects of a wrong that has never been addressed still lingers around. If you can't see that I can't help you.

Every person has an ancestor who was wronged by someone else's ancestor. Every person. Every person has ancestors who were vile. And every person has ancestors who were angels. The children of crime victims suffer residual affects of the crime committed on their parents. Do they, then, have a right to demand reparations from the children of the offender? Children who never did them any wrong?

 

[Gospel]

Why are you such an advocate for the US government (ya know, the one that's being called to account for it's wrongs - not OLEG). What's your actual reason? I'm curious. I understand your argument that those who have been harmed should be the ones that get reparations. I agree with that. You do know that those who have been wrong in the case of Discrimination against blacks committed by the US Federal or State Government are long dead. Many of which were robbed of their opportunity to build wealth for their heirs. You don't think their heirs took a loss as a result?

 

[thebeave]

I think there could be some unintended consequences with this. I can see serious tension in black neighborhoods where there is a mix of those who received reparations and those who didn't. Basically, a conflict between the "haves" and "have nots". Seems like it could destroy friendships and otherwise cohesive neighborhoods, not to mention spikes in crime, etc.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

This will be bad for Black people.

I said "I think there could be some" unintended consequences. You strawmanned me to "this will be bad for Black people". Just stop it. The fact is, it is something that reasonable people should consider and/or expect with regard to this topic. There have been experiments among primates that show similar things happening.

 

[Oleg]

Many of which were robbed of their opportunity to build wealth for their heirs. You don't think their heirs took a loss as a result?

Think of all those descendants of fallen/maimed Civil War soldiers. Hundreds of thousands died. Wives lost their husbands. Children lost their fathers. Imagine the incredible hardship this caused. But, who cares about that sacrifice of blood. Their descendants better pay up.

 

[Oleg]

I think there could be some unintended consequences with this. I can see serious tension in black neighborhoods where there is a mix of those who received reparations and those who didn't. Basically, a conflict between the "haves" and "have nots". Seems like it could destroy friendships and otherwise cohesive neighborhoods, not to mention spikes in crime, etc.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

This will be bad for Black people.

I said "could be some" unintended consequences. You strawmanned me to "this will be bad for Black people". Just stop it. The fact is, it is something that reasonable people should consider and/or expect with regard to this topic. There have been experiments among primates that show similar things happening.

Oh, you're being a poop-poop head. There can be no consequence to creating a racial caste system. No consequence at all.

 

[Gospel]

Many of which were robbed of their opportunity to build wealth for their heirs. You don't think their heirs took a loss as a result?

Think of all those descendants of fallen/maimed Civil War soldiers. Hundreds of thousands died. Wives lost their husbands. Children lost their fathers. Imagine the incredible hardship this caused. But, who cares about that sacrifice of blood. Their descendants better pay up.

Those who willingly put their lives on the line to defend their country don't view their sacrifice as forced slavery and discrimination. At least not in the Union. As for those who fought for the confederacy, they got what their fucking asses deserved (well not entirely, should have been worse).

 

[Gospel]

Their descendants better pay up.

And this is exactly where we disagree. It's the US being asked to make amends for its wrongs. You just so happen to be a US citizen who's tax money may be used to right those wrongs. You ought to be pissed at the US government for discriminating against people and costing you money. Just like you ought to be upset with police officers that violate peoples civil rights and costing you money.

I agree that reparations should be paid to those who were directly harmed. I'm certain California can find plenty of living candidates despite how late they are to the table.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Many of which were robbed of their opportunity to build wealth for their heirs. You don't think their heirs took a loss as a result?

Think of all those descendants of fallen/maimed Civil War soldiers. Hundreds of thousands died. Wives lost their husbands. Children lost their fathers. Imagine the incredible hardship this caused. But, who cares about that sacrifice of blood. Their descendants better pay up.

Amigo! That's a terrible analogy! Yes, feel bad for soldiers killed in battle. We should help their families recovery. That doesn't compare in the least to the harm of an entire family suffering through slavery.

 

[laughing dog]

I think there could be some unintended consequences with this. I can see serious tension in black neighborhoods where there is a mix of those who received reparations and those who didn't. Basically, a conflict between the "haves" and "have nots". Seems like it could destroy friendships and otherwise cohesive neighborhoods, not to mention spikes in crime, etc.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

This will be bad for Black people.

I said "I think there could be some" unintended consequences. You strawmanned me to "this will be bad for Black people". Just stop it. The fact is, it is something that reasonable people should consider and/or expect with regard to this topic. There have been experiments among primates that show similar things happening.

It is not a straw man - you brought up the unintended bad consequences for the black community. But as defense for your unintended consequences derail, you show an example with monkeys? Talk about tone deaf.

 

[laughing dog]

Many of which were robbed of their opportunity to build wealth for their heirs. You don't think their heirs took a loss as a result?

Think of all those descendants of fallen/maimed Civil War soldiers. Hundreds of thousands died. Wives lost their husbands. Children lost their fathers. Imagine the incredible hardship this caused. But, who cares about that sacrifice of blood. Their descendants better pay up.

WTF are you babbling about? These reparations are not about slavery or its direct efffects.

 

[TomC]

The $150 billion for Israel is not reparations because America didn't do it to make amends. But they did however do it to help those who have been wronged.

I don't mean to derail this thread, but I consider that statement completely wrong.

I believe that the USA helped give Palestinian property to Zionists for two main reasons.
To help get rid of Jews. And to establish a beachhead near the source of Gulf oil reserves.
Then it became a Christian thing, reestablish the Temple to set the stage for The Second Coming.

Nothing to do with righting old wrongs.

If the USA wants to right old wrongs, on a global scale, they might consider the situation in Haiti. Our first overseas military adventure was protecting the property rights of our French buddies when the Haitian slaves revolted. We forced the Haitians to buy themselves from President Jefferson's friends in France for about the same amount as we paid France for the Louisiana Purchase.

There's no end to the old wrongs.
Tom

 

[thebeave]

I think there could be some unintended consequences with this. I can see serious tension in black neighborhoods where there is a mix of those who received reparations and those who didn't. Basically, a conflict between the "haves" and "have nots". Seems like it could destroy friendships and otherwise cohesive neighborhoods, not to mention spikes in crime, etc.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

This will be bad for Black people.

I said "I think there could be some" unintended consequences. You strawmanned me to "this will be bad for Black people". Just stop it. The fact is, it is something that reasonable people should consider and/or expect with regard to this topic. There have been experiments among primates that show similar things happening.

It is not a straw man - you brought up the unintended bad consequences for the black community. But as defense for your unintended consequences derail, you show an example with monkeys? Talk about tone deaf.

I don't understand what your problem is. 'Splain, Lucy.

 

[Derec]

It is not a straw man - you brought up the unintended bad consequences for the black community. But as defense for your unintended consequences derail,

Unintended consequences of a proposed policy are not a derail but very much on-topic when discussing said policy.

you show an example with monkeys? Talk about tone deaf.

What is the problem?
Is your contention that black people are apart from the rest of humanity and not descendent from a common ancestor with other simians like the rest of us? That seems racist to me, Hound ...

 

[Metaphor]

I think there could be some unintended consequences with this. I can see serious tension in black neighborhoods where there is a mix of those who received reparations and those who didn't. Basically, a conflict between the "haves" and "have nots". Seems like it could destroy friendships and otherwise cohesive neighborhoods, not to mention spikes in crime, etc.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

This will be bad for Black people.

I said "I think there could be some" unintended consequences. You strawmanned me to "this will be bad for Black people". Just stop it. The fact is, it is something that reasonable people should consider and/or expect with regard to this topic. There have been experiments among primates that show similar things happening.

This is an experiment that has been done on birds, dogs, chimpanzees and capuchins (according to the video).

Two capuchins who know each other are paid for doing a task (removing a rock from their own cage and giving it to the experimenter). One capuchin is paid with a cucumber slice (low value) and the other is paid with a grape (higher value). The capuchin who gets the cucumber slice is fine with that reward until they see the other capuchin get rewarded a grape for the same task.

The video is short and worth watching if only because of the way the cucumber capuchin expresses their dissatisfaction.