CA Reparations Task Force

[laughing dog]

I think there could be some unintended consequences with this. I can see serious tension in black neighborhoods where there is a mix of those who received reparations and those who didn't. Basically, a conflict between the "haves" and "have nots". Seems like it could destroy friendships and otherwise cohesive neighborhoods, not to mention spikes in crime, etc.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

This will be bad for Black people.

I said "I think there could be some" unintended consequences. You strawmanned me to "this will be bad for Black people". Just stop it. The fact is, it is something that reasonable people should consider and/or expect with regard to this topic. There have been experiments among primates that show similar things happening.

It is not a straw man - you brought up the unintended bad consequences for the black community. But as defense for your unintended consequences derail, you show an example with monkeys? Talk about tone deaf.

I don't understand what your problem is. 'Splain, Lucy.

If you don't get it, you won't get it.

 

[laughing dog]

What is the problem?
Is your contention that black people are apart from the rest of humanity and not descendent from a common ancestor with other simians like the rest of us? That seems racist to me, Hound ...

If you ignore the long history of comparing black people to monkeys, you'd have a point. On the other hand, given your demonstrated expertise on racism, I will have to ponder your observation.

 

[Metaphor]

What is the problem?
Is your contention that black people are apart from the rest of humanity and not descendent from a common ancestor with other simians like the rest of us? That seems racist to me, Hound ...

If you ignore the long history of comparing black people to monkeys, you'd have a point. On the other hand, given your demonstrated expertise on racism, I will have to ponder your observation.

So, can you explain the practicalities for this in going forward?

The capuchin behaviour is clearly relevant for the example in evolutionary terms. Are we to be silent and never bring up animal research if it involves primates?

 

[Gospel]

The $150 billion for Israel is not reparations because America didn't do it to make amends. But they did however do it to help those who have been wronged.

I don't mean to derail this thread, but I consider that statement completely wrong.

I believe that the USA helped give Palestinian property to Zionists for two main reasons.
To help get rid of Jews. And to establish a beachhead near the source of Gulf oil reserves.
Then it became a Christian thing, reestablish the Temple to set the stage for The Second Coming.

Nothing to do with righting old wrongs.

If the USA wants to right old wrongs, on a global scale, they might consider the situation in Haiti. Our first overseas military adventure was protecting the property rights of our French buddies when the Haitian slaves revolted. We forced the Haitians to buy themselves from President Jefferson's friends in France for about the same amount as we paid France for the Louisiana Purchase.

There's no end to the old wrongs.
Tom

Glad you brought up Haiti. It's a perfect example of the USA being in a position to do something positive before the issue became "old" but decided to do the opposite. Create a brand new wrong! What it is not an example of is the USA looking at the people of Israeli's situation and not helping. Whether or not the aid Israel receives comes with perks has no bearing on it being rightfully called aid.

Now back to America. Wrongs were asked to be addressed by those who were directly wronged in America. They were denied until they died. Now some white folks (I won't name) are jumping into the ring to finish off the surviving community because the trigger word reparations was used. All while screaming "IT'S NOT MY FAULT! I HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!". You have everything to do with it today. It's happening right now. The black community is still recovering from the history of slavery. It would have been sped up if not for racist white people getting in the way (like they did with Haiti).

 

[laughing dog]

If it wasn't so painfully sad, it would be rather amusing to see the flailing around the concept that comparing black people to monkeys has a long and documented history as insulting and is something to be avoided if one wishes to avoid insulting black people, or appearing clueless or worse.


The notion that some study is necessary to show that it is not unnatural for people to compare their situation to others and find it unfair (is truly astounding.

ETA - the blue italicized and underlined was added to help the obtuse.

 

[Metaphor]

If it wasn't so painfully sad, it would be rather amusing to see the flailing around the concept that comparing black people to monkeys has a long and documented history as insulting.

So, can you explain the practicalities for this in going forward?

The capuchin behaviour is clearly relevant for the example in evolutionary terms. Are we to be silent and never bring up animal research if it involves primates?

The notion that some study is necessary to show that it is not unnatural for people to compare their situation to others is truly astounding.

You clearly missed the point of the video. People compare their situations, yes. But the point is they compare the situation and discover unfairness.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I think there could be some unintended consequences with this. I can see serious tension in black neighborhoods where there is a mix of those who received reparations and those who didn't. Basically, a conflict between the "haves" and "have nots". Seems like it could destroy friendships and otherwise cohesive neighborhoods, not to mention spikes in crime, etc.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

This will be bad for Black people.

I said "I think there could be some" unintended consequences. You strawmanned me to "this will be bad for Black people". Just stop it. The fact is, it is something that reasonable people should consider and/or expect with regard to this topic. There have been experiments among primates that show similar things happening.

No, you just stop it. Your "unintended consequences," are essentially "black people will start running around killing each other for the money." And then your apology, "what? Who me? No, I said it COULD happen."

Let's review your ridiculous points by analogy. Suppose instead you wrote, "unintended consequences. If black people got the reparations, they might all buy truckloads of Newports. That would be bad for their health." And then I would point out that Dave Chapelle already did that. And you would blame me for your piss-poor "might happen" scenario.

So, basically, you wrote it. So, own it or take it back. Don't shoot the messenger.

 

[ZiprHead]

It tends to happen with all people, regardless of race, when big money suddenly shows up to those who were previously lacking. Like lotterys, inheritances, etc. Its happening now in my family, regarding an inheritance. My sister has burned bridges with her once close cousin because my mom gave her grand piano to her niece instead of her. A lot of lottery winners have talked about how their life is worse after having won big money. This is not news. It's human nature.

It's man bites dog stories. No one pays any attention to the lottery winners who go on with their lives in quiet comfort. It's the bad news that gets rating so that's what gets the news and tv shows.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's the Daily Fail. I don't trust that such a commission even exists.

California reparations task force dives into what is owed

California's first-in-the-nation task force studying reparations for Black residents is meeting in Oakland to discuss potential eligibility requirements and what form reparations could take

abcnews.go.com

It's considering whether they should be done. In other words, studying the issue.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It tends to happen with all people, regardless of race, when big money suddenly shows up to those who were previously lacking. Like lotterys, inheritances, etc. Its happening now in my family, regarding an inheritance. My sister has burned bridges with her once close cousin because my mom gave her grand piano to her niece instead of her. A lot of lottery winners have talked about how their life is worse after having won big money. This is not news. It's human nature.

Yup. We're watching it happen with some of her relatives now--a bunch of squabbling over about US$1M from a property that's got a date with the wreckers. The only relationship of any importance involved has already pretty much been destroyed so it's not going to be a calamity. Some feel they are due a piece of it, obviously-fake (the guy who supposedly "wrote" it didn't know how to write--learning to write Chinese is a far greater undertaking than learning to write English, there used to be a fair number of people who could read but not write) documents have been presented to contest the ownership.

Even without it being sudden we have seen a distancing with some of her relatives. They feel it's unfair that she has a lot better lifestyle than they do--never mind that she's still working in a high-skill profession, they long ago retired from low-skill jobs. She has helped but they don't feel it's enough and it's somehow her fault they made bad decisions in life.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Did that happen with the Japanese, Native Americans or Israel?

The only Japanese people who received reparations were those who were actually detained. Native Americans don't get reparations; some have reservations. And Israel. We don't pay reparations to Israel. Creating a racial spoils system is the road to ruin.

Reparations is: The making of amends for a wrong one has done, by paying money to or otherwise helping those who have been wronged.

And I have no problem at all with slavers paying compensation to their former slaves. An appropriate value would be 100% of their assets. However, other than sex slaves where are you going to find living slavers or slaves?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So people who actually suffered harm are compensated? Makes sense.

The residual effects of a wrong that has never been addressed still lingers around. If you can't see that I can't help you.

And reparations over it is just going to throw gasoline on the fires of racism in this country.

 

[Metaphor]

It's the Daily Fail. I don't trust that such a commission even exists.

California reparations task force dives into what is owed

California's first-in-the-nation task force studying reparations for Black residents is meeting in Oakland to discuss potential eligibility requirements and what form reparations could take

abcnews.go.com

It's considering whether they should be done. In other words, studying the issue.

The legislation authorising the task force does not task the taskforce with considering whether it should be done. That isn't in the list.

AB 3121: Task Force to Study and Develop Reparation Proposals for African Americans

We are aware of recent reports of electronic communications and social media posts sharing false and misleading information about African American California residents receiving monetary reparations. This information is false. There is no such process in place with the Department of Justice or...

oag.ca.gov

Additionally, the Task Force will recommend appropriate remedies of compensation, rehabilitation, and restitution for African Americans, with a special consideration for descendants of persons enslaved in the United States. By statute, the Task Force will issue a report to the Legislature by June 1, 2022, which will be available to the public.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I believe that the USA helped give Palestinian property to Zionists for two main reasons.
To help get rid of Jews. And to establish a beachhead near the source of Gulf oil reserves.
Then it became a Christian thing, reestablish the Temple to set the stage for The Second Coming.

I think Israel is for a completely different reason: We provide aid to have a say in how they defend themselves and to ensure they are able to defend themselves by conventional means. Israel no doubt has the bomb and it's faced with enemies stupid enough to push them into a corner that would make them use it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It tends to happen with all people, regardless of race, when big money suddenly shows up to those who were previously lacking. Like lotterys, inheritances, etc. Its happening now in my family, regarding an inheritance. My sister has burned bridges with her once close cousin because my mom gave her grand piano to her niece instead of her. A lot of lottery winners have talked about how their life is worse after having won big money. This is not news. It's human nature.

It's man bites dog stories. No one pays any attention to the lottery winners who go on with their lives in quiet comfort. It's the bad news that gets rating so that's what gets the news and tv shows.

But the sociologists pay attention, also. Windfalls often bring worse conditions for the people.

 

[ZiprHead]

It tends to happen with all people, regardless of race, when big money suddenly shows up to those who were previously lacking. Like lotterys, inheritances, etc. Its happening now in my family, regarding an inheritance. My sister has burned bridges with her once close cousin because my mom gave her grand piano to her niece instead of her. A lot of lottery winners have talked about how their life is worse after having won big money. This is not news. It's human nature.

It's man bites dog stories. No one pays any attention to the lottery winners who go on with their lives in quiet comfort. It's the bad news that gets rating so that's what gets the news and tv shows.

But the sociologists pay attention, also. Windfalls often bring worse conditions for the people.

How often? That was my point.

 

[laughing dog]

FFS, if people actually read the linked article, they'd know that

the figure presented to the committee by an economic research team represents the state of California's 'maximum culpability' for housing discrimination.

It only applies to people who were impacted by housing discrimination between 1933 and 1977, and not just black people.

They are supposed to reparations for the effects of discriminatory policy by the State of California.

Whether these reparations are a good idea is an issue. The reparations in question have nothing whatsoever to do with slavery.

 

[Gospel]

Are we to be silent and never bring up animal research if it involves primates?

I think it makes a great point. You do recognize that racists white people in America dehumanized the slaves by using imagery & rhetoric depicting them as monkeys right? It's like bringing up how humans react to gas chambers using lab rats during a holocausts discussion. Sure you may have a point but don't be shocked when folks question your motive. because it's reasonable to do so.

Now to your point, white people have been getting handouts and if I recall they are human as well. They haven't managed to vanish off the face of the earth because some white owned corporations got bailed out while others didn't. So your point is trash.

 

[Metaphor]

Are we to be silent and never bring up animal research if it involves primates?

I think it makes a great point. You do recognize that racists white people in America dehumanized the slaves by using imagery & rhetoric depicting them as monkeys right? It's like bringing up how humans react to gas chambers using lab rats during a holocausts discussion. Sure you may have a point but don't be shocked when folks question your motive. because it's reasonable to do so.

I am asking laughing dog what are his rules for mentioning relevant animal research.

Now to your point, white people have been getting handouts and if I recall they are human as well. They haven't managed to vanish off the face of the earth because some white owned corporations got bailed out while others didn't. So your point is trash.

What...point, exactly? What are you claiming? That white people don't murder each other when other white people get bailed out?

 

[Politesse]

Whether these reparations are a good idea is an issue. The reparations in question have nothing whatsoever to do with slavery.

Ah, let them have their fun. It's a world of buzzwords, and without the buzzwords they don't have their script. They just see a headline, look for something they recognize, and recite their opinion.