Calls to abolish ICE gaining steam

[Underseer]

ICE simply does not behave like law enforcement in a liberal democracy that is under the rule of law.

They indefinitely imprison women just to get them to recant sex abuse allegations, they imprison journalists, they break into homes and refuse to produce warrants, they stop random people on the streets and demand to see their papers like this is Soviet fucking Russia and they are the KGB.

Whatever good you think ICE does, is it worth giving up freedom? The rule of law? How many of our American values are you willing to flush down the toilet because you happen to like the idea of ethnic cleansing?

 

[repoman]

 

[Trausti]

The Committee to Re-Elect the President is off to a bigly start.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

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It always jars me a little when I see wealthy liberals advocate against borders but not give up their wealth and privilege.

I totally agree that it is unjust that some of us are born into wealthy nations and others are born into third world countries, and that supporting and propping that up is unjust, but protesting against that while living in a nice house and shopping at Whole Foods is kind of like preaching about the environment while driving an SUV and running a coal plant, or preaching about "family values" to your mistress, isn't it?

 

[Harry Bosch]

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It always jars me a little when I see wealthy liberals advocate against borders but not give up their wealth and privilege.

I totally agree that it is unjust that some of us are born into wealthy nations and others are born into third world countries, and that supporting and propping that up is unjust, but protesting against that while living in a nice house and shopping at Whole Foods is kind of like preaching about the environment while driving an SUV and running a coal plant, or preaching about "family values" to your mistress, isn't it?

How is enjoying a nice living in the west contributing to the bad economies in the third world? What hurt Latin America is our war on drugs, destablishing their economies, and other problems.

 

[thebeave]

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It always jars me a little when I see wealthy liberals advocate against borders but not give up their wealth and privilege.

I totally agree that it is unjust that some of us are born into wealthy nations and others are born into third world countries, and that supporting and propping that up is unjust, but protesting against that while living in a nice house and shopping at Whole Foods is kind of like preaching about the environment while driving an SUV and running a coal plant, or preaching about "family values" to your mistress, isn't it?

Yep. Think about all the liberal Hollywood celebrities who live in huge mansions surrounded by massive walls to keep "others" out.

 

[Trausti]

Keep on keeping on!

 

[Underseer]

This is just too funny.

You rightists have spent decades complaining about "big government" and "jack-booted thugs," and now that we have clear evidence of a government agency threatening our freedoms, you are falling all over yourselves making excuses for this.

Thanks for doubling down on the toddler concentration camps and jailing journalists who criticize the government. You're doing a lot to help the election of Democrats in the next election. Keep up the good work!

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Keep on keeping on!

So being anti-fascist is not liberal?

Will you make up your mind?

I thought fascism was a good thing just a few moments ago. You reverse positions so often I'm shocked you don't have whiplash.

 

[Trausti]

This is just too funny.

You rightists have spent decades complaining about "big government" and "jack-booted thugs," and now that we have clear evidence of a government agency threatening our freedoms, you are feeling all over yourselves making excuses for this.

Thanks for doubling down on the toddler concentration camps and hailing journalists who criticize the government. You're doing a lot to help the election of Democrats in the next election. Keep up the good work!

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Keep on keeping on!

So being anti-fascist is not liberal?

Will you make up your mind?

I thought fascism was a good thing just a few moments ago. You reverse positions so often I'm shocked you don't have whiplash.

Well, that's an odd interpretation. Another interpretation is that the anti-ICE stance is now causing liberal cannibalism. Please keeping pushing this through November.

 

[Underseer]

This is just too funny.

You rightists have spent decades complaining about "big government" and "jack-booted thugs," and now that we have clear evidence of a government agency threatening our freedoms, you are feeling all over yourselves making excuses for this.

Thanks for doubling down on the toddler concentration camps and hailing journalists who criticize the government. You're doing a lot to help the election of Democrats in the next election. Keep up the good work!

- - - Updated - - -

Keep on keeping on!

So being anti-fascist is not liberal?

Will you make up your mind?

I thought fascism was a good thing just a few moments ago. You reverse positions so often I'm shocked you don't have whiplash.

Well, that's an odd interpretation. Another interpretation is that the anti-ICE stance is now causing liberal cannibalism. Please keeping pushing this through November.

So fascism is bad, but also good? You're not making your position and more clear. Are you for fascism or against it?

 

[Trausti]

Well, that's an odd interpretation. Another interpretation is that the anti-ICE stance is now causing liberal cannibalism. Please keeping pushing this through November.

So fascism is bad, but also good? You're not making your position and more clear. Are you for fascism or against it?

What does any of this have to do with fascism? Get off your hobby horse. He's dead.

 

[Derec]

threatening our freedoms

1. Our freedoms? Illegals are not the American people. They are not us.
2. There is no right to come to another country illegally. If you don't enforce your borders, you can't really have a country any more than you can have a cell without the cytoplasmic membrane.

As we have seen in 2016 Democrats are world champions in snatching defeat out of jaws of victory. They may do the same in 2018 thanks to moving too far left, especially on migration and borders. That even Bernie Sanders is not radical enough to this New Left is worrying. I think we need Democrats to win at least the House in 2018 as a counterbalance to the executive, but it may not be.

 

[bilby]

threatening our freedoms

1. Our freedoms? Illegals are not the American people. They are not us.

New Yorkers are not the Georgian people. They are not you either.

Savannahians are not the Atlantan people. They also are not you.

Them next door ain't you, if it comes to that.

"Freedom just for me" is a nonsense. But it is the inevitable consequence of any logic that can conclude "X are not Y, they are not us" where X and Y are any two groups of human beings.

Freedom is merely privilege extended, unless enjoyed by one and all.

2. There is no right to come to another country illegally. If you don't enforce your borders, you can't really have a country any more than you can have a cell without the cytoplasmic membrane.

And yet states of the USA exist, with differing laws, but with no border controls at all. As do nations in places like the EU. In fact, there seems to be no particular reason to give special status to some borders and not to others; They are an administrative convenience and artifice, not some kind of law of nature. The same rules that say that people from Georgia can travel to New York, or from Paris to Berlin, or from Atlanta to Savannah, or from Yorkshire to Lancashire, without restriction could just as well apply to travel from Mexico to the USA. That they don't is a bit strange, fairly recent, and a distinct infringement on peoples freedom.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And now we see the cats all over the place. Abolish ICE?!

Right now children are in HHS custody. Their parents are in ICE custody.

Let's abolish ICE... as if you get rid of ICE that ends it?

The issue was being exposed, that the children were being torn from families, the nation, in general, was taking issue with this. Especially when learning the Trump Admin is so daft they had no idea how to get children back with their parents once the kids were with HHS.

And now, instead of the children leading the story, some leftists are whining about getting rid of ICE... something that can not be done at all. So the tone of the story went from nation turning against Trump's policies to nation turning against leftist policy. How the fuck did this happen?!

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

INS was disbanded and ICE was created. One simply replaced the other.

What will be the name of the new Three Letter Agency?

 

[Angra Mainyu]

INS was disbanded and ICE was created. One simply replaced the other.

What will be the name of the new Three Letter Agency?

It very probably won't happen, because many Republicans are going to defend it (even more so if Democrats generally wanted to abolish it, but even if only a small percentage of them did).

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

There's no need to defend it if you're only going to rename it.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

There's no need to defend it if you're only going to rename it.

It may not be necessary to defend it, but it's pretty useful for Republicans. This has become a partisan issue, and politicians on both sides will use it to get people to vote for them. Defending ICE can be portrayed as defending US law enforcement against people who would have open borders and destroy America slowly. Attacking ICE can be portrayed as attacking the evil organization that takes children from their parents. It's already happening. You could expect more to come.

 

[braces_for_impact]

What is that fallacy again which states that calling out your opponent on their hypocrisy doesn't actually invalidate their argument?

Ah, yes. Tu quoque.

You can pick on Hollywood celebrities and gated communities all you like, it doesn't invalidate an argument.

Also, I see nothing hypocritical about it anyway. One could live within a gated community for a variety of reasons, or if they're a celebrity there may be a certain amount of privacy the celeb would like to maintain. This doesn't mean they wouldn't be open to immigration reform.

So, if that's the best you've got, I'm afraid you'll just have to do better.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

What is that fallacy again which states that calling out your opponent on their hypocrisy doesn't actually invalidate their argument?

Ah, yes. Tu quoque.

You can pick on Hollywood celebrities and gated communities all you like, it doesn't invalidate an argument.

Also, I see nothing hypocritical about it anyway. One could live within a gated community for a variety of reasons, or if they're a celebrity there may be a certain amount of privacy the celeb would like to maintain. This doesn't mean they wouldn't be open to immigration reform.

So, if that's the best you've got, I'm afraid you'll just have to do better.

Whose post are you replying to?