Campus Insanity Foreseen 47 Years Ago

[GenesisNemesis]

You know in 1969, the Supreme Court declared that segregation must end. Maybe you should read a bit about history.

This is not about segregation, it's about admissions based on race and not merit.
Reading comprehension is a fine thing for those who have it.

If you had good reading comprehension skills I would expect you to notice that the prediction referred to by the OP was made in 1969, which is the same year the Supreme Court declared segregation must end, and that the economic and social consequences of segregation were very real. The fact that this is being ignored is just mind-boggling.

 

[fromderinside]

duplicate

 

[Derec]

If you had good reading comprehension skills I would expect you to notice that the prediction referred to by the OP was made in 1969, which is the same year the Supreme Court declared segregation must end, and that the economic and social consequences of segregation were very real. The fact that this is being ignored is just mind-boggling.

Brown vs. Board of Education was in 1954 - college students from 1969 already went to desegregated schools. I am not aware of any major SCOTUS case regarding segregation from 1969. Which case did you have in mind?

In any case, this is not about segregation, but about race-based admissions, and race-based demands that have eerily come to pass. And the degeneration of college debates into blacks teams ignoring the debate topic and instead rapping and yelling abouthow everybody else is racist and then winning is also a bad outcome of misguided racial politics of the last 50 years.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

If you had good reading comprehension skills I would expect you to notice that the prediction referred to by the OP was made in 1969, which is the same year the Supreme Court declared segregation must end, and that the economic and social consequences of segregation were very real. The fact that this is being ignored is just mind-boggling.

Brown vs. Board of Education was in 1954 - college students from 1969 already went to desegregated schools. I am not aware of any major SCOTUS case regarding segregation from 1969. Which case did you have in mind?

In any case, this is not about segregation, but about race-based admissions, and race-based demands that have eerily come to pass. And the degeneration of college debates into blacks teams ignoring the debate topic and instead rapping and yelling abouthow everybody else is racist and then winning is also a bad outcome of misguided racial politics of the last 50 years.

Alexander v. Holmes County Board of Education

 

[Sarpedon]

Wrong, it is very well documented that they are biased by race, culture, and economic status.

 

[fromderinside]

If you had good reading comprehension skills I would expect you to notice that the prediction referred to by the OP was made in 1969, which is the same year the Supreme Court declared segregation must end, and that the economic and social consequences of segregation were very real. The fact that this is being ignored is just mind-boggling.

Brown vs. Board of Education was in 1954 - college students from 1969 already went to desegregated schools. I am not aware of any major SCOTUS case regarding segregation from 1969. Which case did you have in mind?

In any case, this is not about segregation, but about race-based admissions, and race-based demands that have eerily come to pass. And the degeneration of college debates into blacks teams ignoring the debate topic and instead rapping and yelling abouthow everybody else is racist and then winning is also a bad outcome of misguided racial politics of the last 50 years.

Way to go GenesisNemesis. Hooked Derec again.

On October 29, 1969, the Supreme Court ruled that school districts must end segregation “now and hereafter.” With this unambiguous language, the Court, which now had Thurgood Marshall as a member, left no room for doubt or delay.What's the Word?

Alexander v. Holmes County Board of Education is an important (and, today, curiously underrated) Supreme Court decision from 1969. It mandated immediate action in the segregation of public school facilities.

The Court was responding to a legal challenge from diehard anti-integrationists, who had learned—from civil rights proponents, no doubt—that the legal system could be used to support social objectives. The anti-integrationists, however, received a major defeat when the Court ruled unanimously that Mississippi (and, by extension, the nation) was obliged to integrate public schools “at once.”

Taken from End Segregation in Public Schools http://school.familyeducation.com/segregation/african-american-history/47437.html and quoting from decision  Alexander v. Holmes County Board of Education

 

[Trausti]

The thing is the quoted material was an stupid opinion piece then as it still is now even though The Donald doesn't seem to have gotten it.

Let's ignore The Donald and look at this dispassionately. Best not allow emotion to cloud our reason. Unpleasant truths are what they are.

The 1969 prediction is highlighted because it aligns with contemporary sociological findings as indicated in the OP link.

But as practiced in most of the top American universities, affirmative action also involves using different admissions standards for applicants of different races, which automatically creates differences in academic readiness and achievement. Although these gaps vary from college to college, studies have found that Asian students enter with combined math/verbal SAT scores on the order of 80 points higher than white students and 200 points higher than black students. A similar pattern occurs for high-school grades. These differences are large, and they matter: High-school grades and SAT scores predict later success as measured by college grades and graduation rates.

As a result of these disparate admissions standards, many students spend four years in a social environment where race conveys useful information about the academic capacity of their peers. People notice useful social cues, and one of the strongest causes of stereotypes is exposure to real group differences. If a school commits to doubling the number of black students, it will have to reach deeper into its pool of black applicants, admitting those with weaker qualifications, particularly if most other schools are doing the same thing. This is likely to make racial gaps larger, which would strengthen the negative stereotypes that students of color find when they arrive on campus.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/hard-truths-about-race-on-campus-1462544543

 

[Derec]

Alexander v. Holmes County Board of Education

So it's a relatively minor decision clarifying the earlier one. How is that relevant to the article from the OP?

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Alexander v. Holmes County Board of Education

So it's a relatively minor decision clarifying the earlier one. How is that relevant to the article from the OP?

You're asking how is segregation relevant to a prediction that was made in 1969? Are you serious?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

This is not about segregation, it's about admissions based on race and not merit.
Reading comprehension is a fine thing for those who have it.

If you had good reading comprehension skills I would expect you to notice that the prediction referred to by the OP was made in 1969, which is the same year the Supreme Court declared segregation must end, and that the economic and social consequences of segregation were very real. The fact that this is being ignored is just mind-boggling.

And even more mind-boggling that you refuse to address the actual topic of the OP. Yes, segregation is an interesting and relevant side issue.... but what about the actual point being made? Why wear that blindfold you grasp to so tightly here?

 

[KeepTalking]

First of all the racist screed in the OP was specifically about Yale Law School. Of the 10 points raised, about half of them applied specifically to that school.

Please document and explain how the above was prescient. Just seems like a racist screed to me.

So you're unaware of the university protests of the past couple years?

At Yale Law School? Yes I am unaware of those protests.

http://www.thedemands.org/

For example:

4. We demand that the University of Missouri

Oh, I see. You are confusing an entire Public University (Mizzou) with a Private Law School (Yale Law School), that's all I really needed to know.

Here are the ten points raised in the racist screed from the late '60s, those marked with an asterisk seem like they would only pertain to a Law School and/or Yale Law School in particular:
1. Elimination of competition
2. Reduction in standards of performance
3. Adoption of courses of study which do not require intensive legal analysis*
4. Recognition for academic credit of sociological activities which have only an indirect relationship to legal training*
5. The employment of faculty on the basis of race
6. Marking system based on race
7. The establishment of a black curriculum*
8. A black law journal*
9. Increase in black financial aid
10. A rule against expulsion of black students who fail to satisfy minimum academic standards

If you don't mind, go ahead and let me know which of those 10 points you feel have been met, and by which demand you listed. I count two, possibly three, and that includes #7, which seems rather specific to Yale Law School, as public universities like Mizzou offer extremely broad curricula, especially in contrast to law schools. Twenty to thirty percent correct hardly seems prescient, and definitely not eerily so.

 

[fromderinside]

Let's ignore The Donald and look at this dispassionately. Best not allow emotion to cloud our reason. Unpleasant truths are what they are.

The 1969 prediction is highlighted because it aligns with contemporary sociological findings as indicated in the OP link.

But as practiced in most of the top American universities, affirmative action also involves using different admissions standards for applicants of different races, which automatically creates differences in academic readiness and achievement. Although these gaps vary from college to college, studies have found that Asian students enter with combined math/verbal SAT scores on the order of 80 points higher than white students and 200 points higher than black students. A similar pattern occurs for high-school grades. These differences are large, and they matter: High-school grades and SAT scores predict later success as measured by college grades and graduation rates.

As a result of these disparate admissions standards, many students spend four years in a social environment where race conveys useful information about the academic capacity of their peers. People notice useful social cues, and one of the strongest causes of stereotypes is exposure to real group differences. If a school commits to doubling the number of black students, it will have to reach deeper into its pool of black applicants, admitting those with weaker qualifications, particularly if most other schools are doing the same thing. This is likely to make racial gaps larger, which would strengthen the negative stereotypes that students of color find when they arrive on campus.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/hard-truths-about-race-on-campus-1462544543

Lets ignore BS like because one lived in nation X guided by laws generated by founders of nation X who owned people they considered sub human those people when freed were considered equal thereafter. If 78 out of 78 arrests are of members of one skin color the laws are just? If anyone who isn't white drives through Beverly Hills he should be expected to get pulled over and harassed because he/she doesn't belong there. If one is not white one cannot become president, secretary of state, league MVP or anything else unless he/she is given a pass by self selected white bigots.

Resting on statistics not representing the capabilities of a group deemed inferior should be called out as race based and be declared racist propaganda whenever it is presented.

Please Trausti, you may not be a racist but you are sure acting like one. Poor people usually don't do as well as rich people in social tasks. It isn't because they are inferior.

Hell, I'm highly trained in developing and validating standardized evaluation instruments and I, like you, am here to testify those instruments are shit when it comes to validation capability or potential when there are structural differences existent in the culture between those taking the tests.

It is better when practicing inclusion to actually remediate issues between casts as one integrates. Cost a a lot? Sure. Worth it? You be the judge after you have seen how such integration works.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

If you had good reading comprehension skills I would expect you to notice that the prediction referred to by the OP was made in 1969, which is the same year the Supreme Court declared segregation must end, and that the economic and social consequences of segregation were very real. The fact that this is being ignored is just mind-boggling.

And even more mind-boggling that you refuse to address the actual topic of the OP. Yes, segregation is an interesting and relevant side issue.... but what about the actual point being made? Why wear that blindfold you grasp to so tightly here?

It's not a "side issue", it's a major reason for the economic and social disparity that is seen in the first place.

 

[fromderinside]

Alexander v. Holmes County Board of Education

So it's a relatively minor decision clarifying the earlier one. How is that relevant to the article from the OP?

Oh I don't know. Maybe there's a reason to change the language to get shitheads to act post haste after 15 years of sitting on their duffs saying "I'm not ready to do that yet." 47 years later places like Ferguson still haven't got the message. National nor local laws still aren't being adjusted to be both fair and equal. Treating race as economic class is not an improvement. Time to say "only racially diverse groups are welcome here".

 

[Sarpedon]

And even more mind-boggling that you refuse to address the actual topic of the OP. Yes, segregation is an interesting and relevant side issue.... but what about the actual point being made? Why wear that blindfold you grasp to so tightly here?

The issue is that differences in environment and disparities in schooling, including segregation, PRODUCES the difference in testing results and other outcomes. It is not that African American students underperform. It is that ANY student in that environment will underperform relative to a student of equal 'innate' ability from a more favorable environment. Thus segregation is not a 'side issue.' It is the entire issue.

 

[fromderinside]

And even more mind-boggling that you refuse to address the actual topic of the OP. Yes, segregation is an interesting and relevant side issue.... but what about the actual point being made? Why wear that blindfold you grasp to so tightly here?

The issue is that differences in environment and disparities in schooling, including segregation, PRODUCES the difference in testing results and other outcomes. It is not that African American students underperform. It is that ANY student in that environment will underperform relative to a student of equal 'innate' ability from a more favorable environment. Thus segregation is not a 'side issue.' It is the entire issue.

If it is the entire issue, I agree that it is a substantial fraction, then why the dependence on methods that deal with use of standardized processes. If one wants to increase diversity across the board one need address the issues of segregation across the board including changing practices, laws, and tailoring training to satisfy getting success from those you want to include.

 

[Sarpedon]

Because it is easy, cheap and to a limited extent, useful.

 

[fromderinside]

Because it is easy, cheap and to a limited extent, useful.

No. It delays the coming of the dogs only a little.

 

[RavenSky]

Best not allow emotion to cloud our reason. Unpleasant truths are what they are.

The 1969 prediction is highlighted because it aligns with contemporary sociological findings as indicated in the OP link...

So let me ask...

is it your position that US society has failed the poor (which is disproportionately black due to historical discrimination) from birth, thereby causing generations of them to be less prepared for the academic rigors of university?

or is it your position that black people in general are biologically inferior and therefore less qualified for university?

 

[repoman]

Best not allow emotion to cloud our reason. Unpleasant truths are what they are.

The 1969 prediction is highlighted because it aligns with contemporary sociological findings as indicated in the OP link...

So let me ask...

is it your position that US society has failed the poor (which is disproportionately black due to historical discrimination) from birth, thereby causing generations of them to be less prepared for the academic rigors of university?

or is it your position that black people in general are biologically inferior and therefore less qualified for university?

I think inferior is a loaded word, I also think that information processing power is probably not most of what separates people as far as fitness for rigorous and laborious academic coursework. I think that the ability to sit for long periods of time pounding excessive info into your head had little use until very recently in our past - and to do it must have drawbacks as far as losing spontaneity. To think that the ability or desire to hyper focus for hours must be spread equally over all peoples is not a given.

The below the neck analogy would be for high muscle mass. It has a lot of advantages as far as fighting and manual labor, but it requires more food and the high muscle person may not be able to hum along all day as the lean person can. What does the tendency to be very academic lose as a tradeoff? More neurotic behavior, slower reaction times in a fight? (The fight in the Sherlock Holmes movie with RDJ is a total joke, you can't analyze that fast and someone like him would have destroyed in a fight by someone less encumbered with thought)