Campus Insanity Foreseen 47 Years Ago

[RavenSky]

So let me ask...

is it your position that US society has failed the poor (which is disproportionately black due to historical discrimination) from birth, thereby causing generations of them to be less prepared for the academic rigors of university?

or is it your position that black people in general are biologically inferior and therefore less qualified for university?

I think inferior is a loaded word, I also think that information processing power is probably not most of what separates people as far as fitness for rigorous and laborious academic coursework. I think that the ability to sit for long periods of time pounding excessive info into your head had little use until very recently in our past - and to do it must have drawbacks as far as losing spontaneity. To think that the ability or desire to hyper focus for hours must be spread equally over all peoples is not a given.

So you think that black people in general are biologically lacking the ability to "hyper focus for hours" and therefore less qualified for university.

Got it.

Still curious about Trausti's position

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

And even more mind-boggling that you refuse to address the actual topic of the OP. Yes, segregation is an interesting and relevant side issue.... but what about the actual point being made? Why wear that blindfold you grasp to so tightly here?

It's not a "side issue", it's a major reason for the economic and social disparity that is seen in the first place.

Perhaps you could explain it then, instead of just muttering "Segregation". Explain to me how past segregation somehow justifies asian guys like me having a much harder standard to meet to get into these schools.

 

[Trausti]

Best not allow emotion to cloud our reason. Unpleasant truths are what they are.

The 1969 prediction is highlighted because it aligns with contemporary sociological findings as indicated in the OP link...

So let me ask...

is it your position that US society has failed the poor (which is disproportionately black due to historical discrimination) from birth, thereby causing generations of them to be less prepared for the academic rigors of university?

or is it your position that black people in general are biologically inferior and therefore less qualified for university?

There could be other reasons.

Professor Ogbu's latest conclusions are highlighted in a study of blacks in Shaker Heights, Ohio, an affluent Cleveland suburb whose school district is equally divided between blacks and whites. As in many racially integrated school districts, the black students have lagged behind whites in grade-point averages, test scores and placement in high-level classes. Professor Ogbu was invited by black parents in 1997 to examine the district's 5,000 students to figure out why.

''What amazed me is that these kids who come from homes of doctors and lawyers are not thinking like their parents; they don't know how their parents made it,'' Professor Ogbu said in an interview. ''They are looking at rappers in ghettos as their role models, they are looking at entertainers. The parents work two jobs, three jobs, to give their children everything, but they are not guiding their children.''

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/30/arts/why-are-black-students-lagging.html?pagewanted=all

 

[Trausti]

It's not a "side issue", it's a major reason for the economic and social disparity that is seen in the first place.

Perhaps you could explain it then, instead of just muttering "Segregation". Explain to me how past segregation somehow justifies asian guys like me having a much harder standard to meet to get into these schools.

Silly Jolly_Penguin. When there's discussion of the achievement gap between whites and blacks, Asians magically disappear.

 

[repoman]

The importance of peers can not be underestimated, and unfortunately adults can't make their kid's peers uncool.

 

[J842P]

It's not a "side issue", it's a major reason for the economic and social disparity that is seen in the first place.

Perhaps you could explain it then, instead of just muttering "Segregation". Explain to me how past segregation somehow justifies asian guys like me having a much harder standard to meet to get into these schools.

I've never received a satisfactory answer to this.

- - - Updated - - -

It's not a "side issue", it's a major reason for the economic and social disparity that is seen in the first place.

Perhaps you could explain it then, instead of just muttering "Segregation". Explain to me how past segregation somehow justifies asian guys like me having a much harder standard to meet to get into these schools.

I've never received a satisfactory answer to this.

 

[RavenSky]

So let me ask...

is it your position that US society has failed the poor (which is disproportionately black due to historical discrimination) from birth, thereby causing generations of them to be less prepared for the academic rigors of university?

or is it your position that black people in general are biologically inferior and therefore less qualified for university?

There could be other reasons.

Professor Ogbu's latest conclusions are highlighted in a study of blacks in Shaker Heights, Ohio, an affluent Cleveland suburb whose school district is equally divided between blacks and whites. As in many racially integrated school districts, the black students have lagged behind whites in grade-point averages, test scores and placement in high-level classes. Professor Ogbu was invited by black parents in 1997 to examine the district's 5,000 students to figure out why.

''What amazed me is that these kids who come from homes of doctors and lawyers are not thinking like their parents; they don't know how their parents made it,'' Professor Ogbu said in an interview. ''They are looking at rappers in ghettos as their role models, they are looking at entertainers. The parents work two jobs, three jobs, to give their children everything, but they are not guiding their children.''

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/30/arts/why-are-black-students-lagging.html?pagewanted=all

This guy?

 John Uzo Ogbu (May 9, 1939 – 20 August 2003) was a Nigerian-American anthropologist and professor known for his theories on observed phenomena involving race and intelligence, especially how race and ethnic differences played out in educational and economic achievement. He suggested that being a "caste-like minority" affects motivation and achievement, depressing IQ scores.

That's just another way of saying that systematic historical discrimination causes difference in economic and educational outcomes.

So is that what you believe?

 

[Axulus]

I have trouble understanding the leftist logic here. Because some blacks are disadvantaged and this have a harder time academically for a variety of reasons, putting them in an academic environment (admitting them to a more challenging college than their merit alone would warrant) where they are more likely to fail or underacheive is supposed to help them and the perception of blacks how, exactly?

 

[Axulus]

Don't know that you're following the topic. Here's a hypothetical. Let's say we want a baseball game. The first team will be selected primarily on RBIs. The second team primarily on having blond hair. Of course, the first team may have blond players, but the players were selected for their RBIs not hair color. Do you imagine the game would be competitive? The 1969 prediction is that the blond team, selected primarily for hair color not sports talent, would compensate for the disparity in skill by demanding, perhaps, that there be more blond referees and that the game become less competitive - at least for them (e.g., a blond player's foul will be considered a hit). After all, there is a history of discrimination against blonds.

Why don't we try a more apt analogy? Lets choose a team that has been told they can be anything and have been given the resources and professional coaching to play on one team. The other team has been told they are inferior and have to learn to play baseball on a tennis court with one father serving as a coach. Let's also threaten them with violence when they try to enter the ball field and mock their appearance and playing style while the game is being played.

And after all that, let's set them up for failure by putting them on the major league team after high school where a large number will ineviatably fail to perform to major league standards because they were drafted in part for their skin color and not solely on athletic ability and potential. Makes sense.

 

[Axulus]

Here's the greatest myth of all: the idea that standardized tests are an accurate and unbiased way of measuring intelligence and achievement.

As someone who scored the highest possible score on the analytical portion of the last standardized test I took, I'm telling you that is bupkis.

You might have a point if it was the case that blacks with the same standarized test scores as whites (for college admissions purposes) were more likely to complete college on time, with higher gpa, and more likely to major in STEM fields. This would indicate their standarized test scores are biased against them and favor whites.

Is that what we actually see? No, not at all.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national...ainful-truth-about-affirmative-action/263122/

 

[Axulus]

How a rationalist would assess a situation of blacks and hispanics in college admissions:

Wow, it looks like blacks and hispanics admitted to colleges are succeeding at higher rates than whites and Asians. They are more likely to complete college on time, less likely to drop out, get higher average GPAs and are more likely to stick with a STEM degree to completion once they start on it. They also have a higher proportion move on to masters and PhD programs. We need to reassess our admittance process to determine why we are being too strict/unfairly biased with accepting these students and work to correct that so it is more balanced. Which admissions criteria is unfairly biased against them and how do we correct for that so that we are not cutting off students that are more likely to succeed at our college compared to ones we admit?

How a leftist assesses college admissions for blacks and hispanics:

There is a lower portion of blacks and hispanics enrolled at colleges, especially top colleges, than the percent of the population that they make up? Outrage! We must correct this imbalance using preferences and other admissions criteria. Those standardized tests are biased against them, don't you know? Besides, they are disadvantaged and discriminated against. A long history. LONG HISTORY. What's that you say? Colleges with such admissions preferences have blacks and hispanics dropping out at much higher rates and a much higher proportion who start pursuing STEM fields later switch to something else compared to whites and asians and have lower average GPAs? They are also less likely to pursue masters and PhD degrees after completing their bachlor's degree? Well, this is just more evidence that the discrimination goes even deeper than we thought. The professors need to check their white privilege and teach in a racially and culturally sensitive manner. Their grading methods are racially biased and need to be fixed. We also need to hire far more black and hispanic professors. We demand this NOW! That will surely fix it.

 

[laughing dog]

How a rationalist would assess a situation of blacks and hispanics in college admissions:



How a leftist assesses college admissions for blacks and hispanics:

There is a lower portion of blacks and hispanics enrolled at colleges, especially top colleges, than the percent of the population that they make up? Outrage! We must correct this imbalance using preferences and other admissions criteria. Those standardized tests are biased against them, don't you know? Besides, they are disadvantaged and discriminated against. A long history. LONG HISTORY. What's that you say? Colleges with such admissions preferences have blacks and hispanics dropping out at much higher rates and a much higher proportion who start pursuing STEM fields later switch to something else compared to whites and asians and have lower average GPAs? They are also less likely to pursue masters and PhD degrees after completing their bachlor's degree? Well, this is just more evidence that the discrimination goes even deeper than we thought. The professors need to check their white privilege and teach in a racially and culturally sensitive manner. Their grading methods are racially biased and need to be fixed. We also need to hire far more black and hispanic professors. We demand this NOW! That will surely fix it.

And that is how a reactionary conservative characterizes the situation.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I have trouble understanding the leftist logic here. Because some blacks are disadvantaged and this have a harder time academically for a variety of reasons, putting them in an academic environment (admitting them to a more challenging college than their merit alone would warrant) where they are more likely to fail or underacheive is supposed to help them and the perception of blacks how, exactly?

I can see you are clearly have trouble understanding the argument. You seem to be well off.