Can a Libertarian win over the working class?

[Bronzeage]

Suppose you were a Libertarian candidate in a Congressional race, in a district where the average voter is a blue collar worker.

Unemployment is above average. Home ownership is also below the national average. Medium income is below national average. A large percentage of the electorate are pensioners.

Your potential voters tend to receive full tax refunds and live in rental properties.

What would your stump speech be? When you are asked to speak to a town hall style meeting, how do you appeal to your potential constituents?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What type of Libertarian. No two are alike, as per the Ron Paul Exclusion Principle.

 

[dismal]

The problem with this question is there is a reasoned answer about why libertarian policies make everyone better off and there is retail politics.

As you have asked it, the retail politics themes I would emphasize, off the top of my head might be:

- We need to get America working and producing things and you don't do that by heaping more regulations, red tape and taxes on employers (parade of horribles)
- We will cut the fraud, waste, abuse, special interest benefits, etc by significantly reducing the size of the government and this will result in more dollars being spent on growing the economy and producing things (parade of horribles)
- We need policies that reward the hard working, law abiding citizen and unleash the entrepreneurial spirit of Americans
- The Republicans and Democrats are so busy squabbling over whose lives matter, hate cakes, and bathroom rights for Caitlyn Jenner that they have lost sight of how to elevate the average hard working citizen and the country (eagle cry)
- I like Freedom (eagle cry)
- Freedom is good. (eagle cry)

 

[braces_for_impact]

I'm not a libertarian. I wouldn't know how to answer those questions or give a speech. Could people be convinced though? I say yes. Look at how conservatives have convinced largely the same demographic to vote against their own best interests.

 

[Bronzeage]

The problem with this question is there is a reasoned answer about why libertarian policies make everyone better off and there is retail politics.

As you have asked it, the retail politics themes I would emphasize, off the top of my head might be:

- We need to get America working and producing things and you don't do that by heaping more regulations, red tape and taxes on employers (parade of horribles)
- We will cut the fraud, waste, abuse, special interest benefits, etc by significantly reducing the size of the government and this will result in more dollars being spent on growing the economy and producing things (parade of horribles)
- We need policies that reward the hard working, law abiding citizen and unleash the entrepreneurial spirit of Americans
- The Republicans and Democrats are so busy squabbling over whose lives matter, hate cakes, and bathroom rights for Caitlyn Jenner that they have lost sight of how to elevate the average hard working citizen and the country (eagle cry)
- I like Freedom (eagle cry)
- Freedom is good. (eagle cry)

That's the same thing Republicans and Democrats say.

The question is, what Libertarian policies would have an impact on working poor people, which would improve their lives?

 

[Bronzeage]

I'm not a libertarian. I wouldn't know how to answer those questions or give a speech. Could people be convinced though? I say yes. Look at how conservatives have convinced largely the same demographic to vote against their own best interests.

I am not saying Libertarian policy would be against their best interests(maybe it is, maybe it's not). I'm asking how a candidate could present a Libertarian platform that would bring votes from working class people who have low incomes and little property.

 

[dismal]

The problem with this question is there is a reasoned answer about why libertarian policies make everyone better off and there is retail politics.

As you have asked it, the retail politics themes I would emphasize, off the top of my head might be:

- We need to get America working and producing things and you don't do that by heaping more regulations, red tape and taxes on employers (parade of horribles)
- We will cut the fraud, waste, abuse, special interest benefits, etc by significantly reducing the size of the government and this will result in more dollars being spent on growing the economy and producing things (parade of horribles)
- We need policies that reward the hard working, law abiding citizen and unleash the entrepreneurial spirit of Americans
- The Republicans and Democrats are so busy squabbling over whose lives matter, hate cakes, and bathroom rights for Caitlyn Jenner that they have lost sight of how to elevate the average hard working citizen and the country (eagle cry)
- I like Freedom (eagle cry)
- Freedom is good. (eagle cry)

That's the same thing Republicans and Democrats say.

The question is, what Libertarian policies would have an impact on working poor people, which would improve their lives?

Republicans say some of it but they have a long track record of failing to do it or doing the opposite of it. Democrats used to say some of it but not much since Clinton (Bill, that is).

 

[dismal]

I'm not a libertarian. I wouldn't know how to answer those questions or give a speech. Could people be convinced though? I say yes. Look at how conservatives have convinced largely the same demographic to vote against their own best interests.

I am not saying Libertarian policy would be against their best interests(maybe it is, maybe it's not). I'm asking how a candidate could present a Libertarian platform that would bring votes from working class people who have low incomes and little property.

Doesn't sound like the current system is working out too well for them. You're not going to out Santa Claus the Democrats or Republicans so you need to appeal to fairness and a rising tide.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

- The Republicans and Democrats are so busy squabbling over whose lives matter, hate cakes, and bathroom rights for Caitlyn Jenner that they have lost sight of how to elevate the average hard working citizen and the country (eagle cry)

The odd thing is that the US economy is incredible shape relative to 08/09, yet what we hear from the right-wing is that we are still amongst a depression. Obama helped to bring stability to the US Auto Industry, which ensured the stability of millions of American jobs. Would an economic Libertarian been for that? Do they believe in pragmatism and acting when massive chunks of shit have hit the fan and the economy is bleeding jobs?

The biggest trouble with Libertarianism is that it isn't actually a political philosophy. It is more of a margin or threshold, which is why individual libertarians have such a broad set of beliefs.

In order to get people to want to vote for them in areas of economic regression, they need to convince the people that change through non-action will cause new industries to enter their economic region. That is a hard sell. Cleveland has tried to shift from steel to medical. Akron from rubber to plastics. But it has required innovation both in the private and public sector. Libertarianism, at least to some Libertarians, would be countered from that. Of course, other Libertarians would be cool with it.

 

[Bronzeage]

I am not saying Libertarian policy would be against their best interests(maybe it is, maybe it's not). I'm asking how a candidate could present a Libertarian platform that would bring votes from working class people who have low incomes and little property.

Doesn't sound like the current system is working out too well for them. You're not going to out Santa Claus the Democrats or Republicans so you need to appeal to fairness and a rising tide.

"Rising tide" is a metaphor similar to "trickle down." As for fairness, that's another word which arouses suspicion in most working class people.

Is this a pointless inquiry? Does Libertaranism have no appeal for working poor people? If so, it seems to be a hopeless cause.

 

[dismal]

- The Republicans and Democrats are so busy squabbling over whose lives matter, hate cakes, and bathroom rights for Caitlyn Jenner that they have lost sight of how to elevate the average hard working citizen and the country (eagle cry)

The odd thing is that the US economy is incredible shape relative to 08/09, yet what we hear from the right-wing is that we are still amongst a depression. Obama helped to bring stability to the US Auto Industry, which ensured the stability of millions of American jobs. Would an economic Libertarian been for that? Do they believe in pragmatism and acting when massive chunks of shit have hit the fan and the economy is bleeding jobs?

The biggest trouble with Libertarianism is that it isn't actually a political philosophy. It is more of a margin or threshold, which is why individual libertarians have such a broad set of beliefs.

In order to get people to want to vote for them in areas of economic regression, they need to convince the people that change through non-action will cause new industries to enter their economic region. That is a hard sell. Cleveland has tried to shift from steel to medical. Akron from rubber to plastics. But it has required innovation both in the private and public sector. Libertarianism, at least to some Libertarians, would be countered from that. Of course, other Libertarians would be cool with it.

Did someone describe 2008-09 as an era of libertarian perfection?

As far as I am concerned the laws then are approximately the same as they are now.

 

[dismal]

Doesn't sound like the current system is working out too well for them. You're not going to out Santa Claus the Democrats or Republicans so you need to appeal to fairness and a rising tide.

"Rising tide" is a metaphor similar to "trickle down." As for fairness, that's another word which arouses suspicion in most working class people.

Is this a pointless inquiry? Does Libertaranism have no appeal for working poor people? If so, it seems to be a hopeless cause.

You don't think all people, including the relatively poor, are better off in an economy with a higher GDP per capita?

Maybe you need to try being middle income in Bangladesh or Djibouti.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The odd thing is that the US economy is incredible shape relative to 08/09, yet what we hear from the right-wing is that we are still amongst a depression. Obama helped to bring stability to the US Auto Industry, which ensured the stability of millions of American jobs. Would an economic Libertarian been for that? Do they believe in pragmatism and acting when massive chunks of shit have hit the fan and the economy is bleeding jobs?

The biggest trouble with Libertarianism is that it isn't actually a political philosophy. It is more of a margin or threshold, which is why individual libertarians have such a broad set of beliefs.

In order to get people to want to vote for them in areas of economic regression, they need to convince the people that change through non-action will cause new industries to enter their economic region. That is a hard sell. Cleveland has tried to shift from steel to medical. Akron from rubber to plastics. But it has required innovation both in the private and public sector. Libertarianism, at least to some Libertarians, would be countered from that. Of course, other Libertarians would be cool with it.

Did someone describe 2008-09 as an era of libertarian perfection?

As far as I am concerned the laws then are approximately the same as they are now.

Interesting response as it doesn't address the issue of Libertarian solutions to economic regression. I think Libertarians would be split on Government actions in 08/09 to deal with the Global Depression that was rolling in. Would Libertarians favor giving the private Auto Companies a raft in '09 in order to ensure stability in the US Auto Industry? Are the costs of interference worth the benefit. I think Libertarians would disagree amongst themselves. Pragmatic ones would see the benefit that saving the forest now would be better. Stalwarts would suggest scorched earth will grow new trees eventually and in 80 years you'd never notice the difference.

What do Libertarians believe? It seems to be whatever any individual one wants to.

 

[dismal]

Did someone describe 2008-09 as an era of libertarian perfection?

As far as I am concerned the laws then are approximately the same as they are now.

Interesting response as it doesn't address the issue of Libertarian solutions to economic regression. I think Libertarians would be split on Government actions in 08/09 to deal with the Global Depression that was rolling in. Would Libertarians favor giving the private Auto Companies a raft in '09 in order to ensure stability in the US Auto Industry? Are the costs of interference worth the benefit. I think Libertarians would disagree amongst themselves. Pragmatic ones would see the benefit that saving the forest now would be better. Stalwarts would suggest scorched earth will grow new trees eventually and in 80 years you'd never notice the difference.

What do Libertarians believe? It seems to be whatever any individual one wants to.

As a retail libertarian politician I would take no ownership whatsoever of whatever it was that happened in 2008-09. Unless you can demonstrate the libertarian policies we did not have caused it, I would argue it makes more sense to attribute it to the policies of the Democrats and Republicans who had actually had been running the country.

 

[jonatha]

Suppose you were a Libertarian candidate in a Congressional race, in a district where the average voter is a blue collar worker.

Unemployment is above average. Home ownership is also below the national average. Medium income is below national average. A large percentage of the electorate are pensioners.

Your potential voters tend to receive full tax refunds and live in rental properties.

What would your stump speech be? When you are asked to speak to a town hall style meeting, how do you appeal to your potential constituents?

Well, first of all, try not to say anything to the pensioners....

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Interesting response as it doesn't address the issue of Libertarian solutions to economic regression. I think Libertarians would be split on Government actions in 08/09 to deal with the Global Depression that was rolling in. Would Libertarians favor giving the private Auto Companies a raft in '09 in order to ensure stability in the US Auto Industry? Are the costs of interference worth the benefit. I think Libertarians would disagree amongst themselves. Pragmatic ones would see the benefit that saving the forest now would be better. Stalwarts would suggest scorched earth will grow new trees eventually and in 80 years you'd never notice the difference.

What do Libertarians believe? It seems to be whatever any individual one wants to.

As a retail libertarian politician I would take no ownership whatsoever of whatever it was that happened in 2008-09. Unless you can demonstrate the libertarian policies we did not have caused it,

Interesting defensive approach, seeing I didn't say Libertarians caused '08/09. I'm talking about their view on the approach to deal with the crashing global economy.

I would argue it makes more sense to attribute it to the policies of the Democrats and Republicans who had actually had been running the country.

That's nice. And when we start talking about the cause of the crash, this would be a reasonable statement to make. In the meantime, you could consider responding to what I actually wrote, if you are going to quote me.

 

[dismal]

As a retail libertarian politician I would take no ownership whatsoever of whatever it was that happened in 2008-09. Unless you can demonstrate the libertarian policies we did not have caused it,

Interesting defensive approach, seeing I didn't say Libertarians caused '08/09. I'm talking about their view on the approach to deal with the crashing global economy.

I would argue it makes more sense to attribute it to the policies of the Democrats and Republicans who had actually had been running the country.

That's nice. And when we start talking about the cause of the crash, this would be a reasonable statement to make. In the meantime, you could consider responding to what I actually wrote, if you are going to quote me.

If you vote for me there won't be a crashing economy.

That comes from the other guys.

 

[laughing dog]

Empirically, the answer is a resounding NO in the 20th and 21st centuries. So, either the working class is too smart (or too dumb) to be persuaded by a libertarian politician or libertarian politicians are too dumb to be able to persuade the working class of the merits of libertarian policies.

 

[Sarpedon]

Sure, just use fear and hate.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Libertarianism just doesn't fly except on the margins of conservatism. The small government meme. Other than that, the Libertarians won't ever be a real player as a movement or ideology. If so, they would be doing better as a party. Sander's new deal democratic socialism works well for millenials, the future voters.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/08/25/in-search-of-libertarians/
11% of American voters identify as Libertarians of some sort, but that does not translate into voters for the Libertarian party.