Considering that Trump will be filling up a bunch of backed up seats with GOP approved justices and there is no way they don't double down on the Jim Crow, do you see Democrats coming back from this? I am really worried that Trump will be the next Erdogan.
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Can the Democrats come back?
- Thread starter Blahface
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Sarpedon
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We have to try.
We can hope his frail coalition self-destructs without Obama and Clinton around to unite them. Its entirely possible that once he makes his supreme court pick, some will view his usefulness at an end.
We can hope his frail coalition self-destructs without Obama and Clinton around to unite them. Its entirely possible that once he makes his supreme court pick, some will view his usefulness at an end.
LordKiran
Veteran Member
Alternatively, we may see a new reversing of the poles. Difficult to really say at the moment.
Jason Harvestdancer
Contributor
I see this question asked every 4 years, about whichever major party lost.
So. Yes. The Democrats can and will come back.
They will come back stronger if they realistically analyze why the lost this time. You can say "well, these are the problems with Hillary that caused Hillary to lose" or you can say "it is all the fault of racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, etc". One of those involves sufficient self-analysis to do better next time around.
So. Yes. The Democrats can and will come back.
They will come back stronger if they realistically analyze why the lost this time. You can say "well, these are the problems with Hillary that caused Hillary to lose" or you can say "it is all the fault of racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, etc". One of those involves sufficient self-analysis to do better next time around.
This is different. Democrats need minorities to win and it is going to get a lot harder for them to vote.
Sarpedon
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Everyone note:
I heartily agree with Jason's assessment.
Once again, the Democratic Party was wrecked by its own hubris and inability to connect with ordinary voters. We have allowed racism and sexism and so forth to fester because we discounted the need to engage with voters and listen to their concerns and fears, and help them deal with them in a constructive way. By ignoring them, we let those trends we thought we had gotten the better of take stronger root. Whether she wanted to or not, Hillary epitomized this leadership failure. Probably she didn't even see it, no matter how loudly Bernie bellowed it at her.
The next thing to do is to help the disenfranchised white voters see how racism and sexism are used to divide them from their potential allies, and they are enabling their own elites in oppressing them by isolating themselves from potential help. It will take a long time to work through this.
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The thing is, Blahface, the 'minorities' have been through this before, and beaten it before. Frankly I think it is time for well educated white liberals like me to shut up and listen, and learn.
I heartily agree with Jason's assessment.
Once again, the Democratic Party was wrecked by its own hubris and inability to connect with ordinary voters. We have allowed racism and sexism and so forth to fester because we discounted the need to engage with voters and listen to their concerns and fears, and help them deal with them in a constructive way. By ignoring them, we let those trends we thought we had gotten the better of take stronger root. Whether she wanted to or not, Hillary epitomized this leadership failure. Probably she didn't even see it, no matter how loudly Bernie bellowed it at her.
The next thing to do is to help the disenfranchised white voters see how racism and sexism are used to divide them from their potential allies, and they are enabling their own elites in oppressing them by isolating themselves from potential help. It will take a long time to work through this.
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The thing is, Blahface, the 'minorities' have been through this before, and beaten it before. Frankly I think it is time for well educated white liberals like me to shut up and listen, and learn.
laughing dog
Contributor
The Democrats can come back. The question is how long is it going to take them to figure this out? Absent some major policy screwups or "acts of God" or the Republican party vastly overplaying its hand, I'd guess it will take the Democrats over 10 years or so.
Philos
Veteran Member
Agreed. Trump will likely be a two term president, while the GOP remakes USA in their own image. Then is the time for an opposition party to be seen as the way out. However, it will take a lot of hurt for 'Joe the plumber' to wise up.
The good news is that, from day 1, Trump's GOP own this. That could be a lot better than watching Hillary on the cross.
P.
I hope the Democrats don't come back. This is a great opportunity for an actual liberal party to emerge.
Yup. Only that isn't likely to happen any time soon. Instead the regressives will call them all racists, because they are white and disagreeing, and not listen to anything they actually have to say.
laughing dog
Contributor
You mean the "regressives" will act like condescending "liberals"?
That does nothing. It used to be, in my memory/experience, anyway, that the Democrats were generally for the working class and the Republicans were generally for business folk. But in the 2000's, I'd say, the Democrats tossed that and went headlong into identity politics. It was everyone else, every fringe, arrayed against evil white, and later evil straight white, people. These traditionally Democratic voters were expected to keep voting Democrat because - and this was new - if they didn't, they'd be tarred as "sexist" or "racist." Their interest, be it the interest in blue collar jobs or determining the makeup of their own communities, was to be sacrificed for "diversity." The Democrats viewed foreigners, or anyone who was "different," as more deserving of government attention and largess than, well, actual working class Americans. Bush and Romney did not tap into this; perhaps because the Democrats had convinced them that acknowledging whites as having their own identity politics is just the worst thing ever. Trump's insight was to see that one of the Democrat's historically reliable voting blocs had been abandoned. All he needed to do was perform better with whites than Romney did in 2012 and he'd win. And he did. So suggesting that the Democrats can woo back these white working class voters by doubling down on "sexism" and "racism" is doomed to failure.
funinspace
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I wouldn’t be placing bets on a 2 term Trump just yet…with the Rupugs controlling both houses and the Whitehouse, they will have fun dealing with some of their own BS come this March 16th.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us...be-reached-soon-in-next-presidency-2016-09-13
The current federal debt was $19.8 trillion on Oct 31, 2016 (see: https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/mspd/2016/opds102016.prn ). Twelve months earlier it was only $18.15 trillion. There is only $300 billion left in front of the magical ceiling as of a month ago. Yeah that should be chewed thru within 4 months.
Yeah, let’s bleed the budget by a trillion dollars a year (oh, and that would be w/o any tax cuts). I’m not sure how they are going to square those circles. We have been slowly pulling out of the last recession now for 6-7 years. What if we are back in a recession by the end of 2017 or early 2018? And I’m pretty sure the ME fuster cluck isn’t going to go away before then either. Welcome to the congressional races for 2018….
Well, the Democrats do need to talk to these voters again and not dismiss them. A large part of Trump's base is made up of Bill Clinton's base and a great deal of Democratic policies are actually tailored to help this group of people. If they can peel off 5-10% of the non-racist part of this group, they win back all the swing states.
TV and credit cards
Contributor
They need to take a look at where and on whom they've been focusing their attention. What has their ROI been? Has it resulted in voter turnout?
I would go after the student debt crowd. The people who held up their end of the bargain. The people who busted their asses working and going to school, played by the rules and were rewarded with mediocre employment, a mountain of debt, and dim futures.
I would go after the student debt crowd. The people who held up their end of the bargain. The people who busted their asses working and going to school, played by the rules and were rewarded with mediocre employment, a mountain of debt, and dim futures.
Jimmy Higgins
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Come back? They just won the popular vote for the 6th time in 7 elections. One major Democrat weakness is supporters not bothering to vote in mid-terms which allows Redistricting bs.
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Harry Bosch
Contributor
No, I don't see the democrats coming back. We can't. The system is rigged against us. More democrats voted than republicans yesterday. HRC won the vote. However, the republicans control the presidency, the senate, the house, the supreme court, most governships, and most state legislatures. We do not live in a democracy.
Sea of red
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Trump a two-term?
Trump is going to be a freak show with bad hair that will self-destruct.
Trump is going to be a freak show with bad hair that will self-destruct.
laughing dog
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The Republicans gained that control by getting elected. The Democrats should try that route.
credoconsolans
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Easy to do when the gerrymandering starts at home.