Canada's new Air Passenger Protection Rules

[Jolly_Penguin]

I fly from Canada to Asia many times each year. I'm not hopeful about this. Seems rather obvious that this simply means airline prices will increase. Its already expensive to fly. I'd rather take the risks if it means more affordable flights.

https://www.chch.com/canadas-new-ai...Y5hYYlD9Tr7qpLsfzozKuuFVWu_2JbT32Jje-JN_5w5TA

he new air passenger protection rules mean disgruntled travelers could get up to $2,400 if they’re bumped from an overbooked flight or $2,100 if the luggage is lost or damaged.
Airlines have tried to quash the rules in federal court but the new standards will be imposed tomorrow, July 15.

Come December, phase two of the new passenger protections will also require an air carrier to compensate passengers for flight delays and cancellations.

Airlines that fail to adhere to these new standards will be subject to fines of up to $25,000 per incident by the Canadian Transport Agency.

 

[Tigers!]

We need this for Tiger Air in Australia.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I don't see the problem with this. If they fuck over their passengers for the sake of making extra money, what's the issue with their being the ones who are saddled with paying extra expenses over situations where these passengers get fucked? 99 times out of 100, the policy allows them to maximize revenue for a flight and the other times they've been trying to squeeze people in order to keep as much of the extra money as possible.

This is exactly the type of situation where regulations are necessary against an industry which refuses to police itself.

 

[dismal]

I don't see the problem with this. If they fuck over their passengers for the sake of making extra money, what's the issue with their being the ones who are saddled with paying extra expenses over situations where these passengers get fucked? 99 times out of 100, the policy allows them to maximize revenue for a flight and the other times they've been trying to squeeze people in order to keep as much of the extra money as possible.

This is exactly the type of situation where regulations are necessary against an industry which refuses to police itself.

Well, Penguin already mentioned the problem with it. Air travel will cost more. If they can't sell as many seats, the ones they do sell will be more expensive. All costs are ultimately borne by the consumer.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I don't see the problem with this. If they fuck over their passengers for the sake of making extra money, what's the issue with their being the ones who are saddled with paying extra expenses over situations where these passengers get fucked? 99 times out of 100, the policy allows them to maximize revenue for a flight and the other times they've been trying to squeeze people in order to keep as much of the extra money as possible.

This is exactly the type of situation where regulations are necessary against an industry which refuses to police itself.

Well, Penguin already mentioned the problem with it. Air travel will cost more. If they can't sell as many seats, the ones they do sell will be more expensive. All costs are ultimately borne by the consumer.

Yes, and as a frequent consumer of flights, I am more concerned about the costs overall increasing on me than my luggage being lost or my flight being bumped. The cheapest to be found on flights from Toronto to Manila are usually around $1,000 Canadian. That's pricey already.

 

[Gun Nut]

I never understood why the airline industry was the only one allowed to sell a product they do not own. They sell more seats on planes that they have, which is why "bumping" happens at all (except in very rare cases where they need to transport a backup pilot for regulatory reasons - like a delay due to weather disqualified the scheduled pilot and new one was needed for compliance).
That's fraud. There is not one penny of loss due to a ticketed passenger not showing up... they pay for their ticket up front whether their ass is in the seat or not.

 

[TSwizzle]

Well, Penguin already mentioned the problem with it. Air travel will cost more. If they can't sell as many seats, the ones they do sell will be more expensive. All costs are ultimately borne by the consumer.

The greedy bastards are selling the seat twice. It's not like they refund the no shows when they fail to board. I don't believe they do this to keep fares low. It's a calculated risk to sell the seat twice, for a profit increase.

 

[Gun Nut]

Well, Penguin already mentioned the problem with it. Air travel will cost more. If they can't sell as many seats, the ones they do sell will be more expensive. All costs are ultimately borne by the consumer.

The greedy bastards are selling the seat twice. It's not like they refund the no shows when they fail to board. I don't believe they do this to keep fares low. It's a calculated risk to sell the seat twice, for a profit increase.

precisely.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Its overblown and will be use as an excuse by the airlines to raise prices. Maybe if you could somehow get price control on the airlines I would agree with you, but that isn't going to happen. The end effect is I pay more for my tickets and very likely gain nothing for it since the odds of me being bumped from a flight due to them overselling is very small. The odds of my baggage being damaged or lost is pretty much zero since I only bring carry on.

 

[dismal]

Well, Penguin already mentioned the problem with it. Air travel will cost more. If they can't sell as many seats, the ones they do sell will be more expensive. All costs are ultimately borne by the consumer.

The greedy bastards are selling the seat twice. It's not like they refund the no shows when they fail to board. I don't believe they do this to keep fares low. It's a calculated risk to sell the seat twice, for a profit increase.

Um, no. They do refund you if you bought a non-super discount fare ticket, which are generally the people who don't show up. (aka business travelers whose plans change)

But it doesn't matter. The principle still applies. If they can't make as much revenue selling those seats, they will charge more for the seats they do sell. If there are people paying money not to fly they are subsidizing those that do fly.

 

[Axulus]

I never understood why the airline industry was the only one allowed to sell a product they do not own. They sell more seats on planes that they have, which is why "bumping" happens at all (except in very rare cases where they need to transport a backup pilot for regulatory reasons - like a delay due to weather disqualified the scheduled pilot and new one was needed for compliance).
That's fraud. There is not one penny of loss due to a ticketed passenger not showing up... they pay for their ticket up front whether their ass is in the seat or not.

It's not fraud because they inform the buyer of the possibility upon purchase.

 

[Axulus]

Its overblown and will be use as an excuse by the airlines to raise prices. Maybe if you could somehow get price control on the airlines I would agree with you, but that isn't going to happen. The end effect is I pay more for my tickets and very likely gain nothing for it since the odds of me being bumped from a flight due to them overselling is very small. The odds of my baggage being damaged or lost is pretty much zero since I only bring carry on.

Many airlines charge extra for checked baggage. You won't incur that cost if you fly an airline that has a separate fee for checked baggage.

 

[Axulus]

It is wasteful to have a plane with empty seats. Overbooking reduces the number of empty seats because there are almost always no-shows. Fewer tickets sold per plane means price increase and more empty seats. Simple supply reduction situation leading to higher prices. Also means more fossil fuel burned and resources wasted on airlines adding additional planes and flights. I wouldn't be surprised if Boeing and Airbus were supporting this stupid law as they stand to gain from it.

Way to do your part on carbon emission reductions, Canada.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I never understood why the airline industry was the only one allowed to sell a product they do not own. They sell more seats on planes that they have, which is why "bumping" happens at all (except in very rare cases where they need to transport a backup pilot for regulatory reasons - like a delay due to weather disqualified the scheduled pilot and new one was needed for compliance).
That's fraud. There is not one penny of loss due to a ticketed passenger not showing up... they pay for their ticket up front whether their ass is in the seat or not.

It's not fraud because they inform the buyer of the possibility upon purchase.

In the tiniest of print.

 

[Axulus]

Its overblown and will be use as an excuse by the airlines to raise prices. Maybe if you could somehow get price control on the airlines I would agree with you, but that isn't going to happen. The end effect is I pay more for my tickets and very likely gain nothing for it since the odds of me being bumped from a flight due to them overselling is very small. The odds of my baggage being damaged or lost is pretty much zero since I only bring carry on.

It's not an excuse. This law will reduce the number of tickets available for sale for each flight from Canada. Reduced supply of a good inevitably leads to higher prices. Economics 101.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Many airlines charge extra for checked baggage. You won't incur that cost if you fly an airline that has a separate fee for checked baggage.

Flights from Canada to Asia without checked baggage included are very very rare, if they exist at all. I would guess the same goes for any flight from one side of the planet to the other. They do have optional additional baggage, and local flights within Asia charge extra for baggage (and I presume that's also the case within Canada, but I don't fly locally here).

 

[Gun Nut]

Its overblown and will be use as an excuse by the airlines to raise prices. Maybe if you could somehow get price control on the airlines I would agree with you, but that isn't going to happen. The end effect is I pay more for my tickets and very likely gain nothing for it since the odds of me being bumped from a flight due to them overselling is very small. The odds of my baggage being damaged or lost is pretty much zero since I only bring carry on.

It's not an excuse. This law will reduce the number of tickets available for sale for each flight from Canada. Reduced supply of a good inevitably leads to higher prices. Economics 101.

The tickets are not the goods (those would be receipts)... the goods are the seats, and the number of them is unchanged.

 

[Axulus]

Its overblown and will be use as an excuse by the airlines to raise prices. Maybe if you could somehow get price control on the airlines I would agree with you, but that isn't going to happen. The end effect is I pay more for my tickets and very likely gain nothing for it since the odds of me being bumped from a flight due to them overselling is very small. The odds of my baggage being damaged or lost is pretty much zero since I only bring carry on.

It's not an excuse. This law will reduce the number of tickets available for sale for each flight from Canada. Reduced supply of a good inevitably leads to higher prices. Economics 101.

The tickets are not the goods (those would be receipts)... the goods are the seats, and the number of them is unchanged.

False. The tickets are what are being sold in the marketplace (which have conditions). The number available for sale will be reduced in Canada since airlines selling tickets there will overbook far fewer seats due to the government penalties, which means fewer tickets available to purchase, leading to price increases as a result of the reduced supply. More seats will also be empty due to the ineviatable no-shows on most flights. Basic logic and economics.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The tickets are not the goods (those would be receipts)... the goods are the seats, and the number of them is unchanged.

False. The tickets are what are being sold in the marketplace (which have conditions). The number available for sale will be reduced in Canada since airlines selling tickets there will overbook far fewer seats due to the government penalties, which means fewer tickets available to purchase, leading to price increases as a result of the reduced supply. More seats will also be empty due to the ineviatable no-shows on most flights. Basic logic and economics.

Or, in order to sell actual seats, they'll need to lower prices closer to departure because they can't repeatedly sell the same seat, so they need to concentrate on selling seats that remain open.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

How early/late do people typically cancel? People who simply don't show up for their flight will leave empty seats with no chance to fill them. Or will this mean flying standby will become more of a thing again?

If I show up when I want to fly and just sit around day after day, will a seat now open up and be mine for cheap?