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Children and Santa, tooth fairy, etc

T.G.G. Moogly said:
It's entertainment, much of which, if not most, of course, is a lie. Entertainment which is not factual is therefore immoral and harmful. You could be correct. What is the game and what are the rules?
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In entertainment people are aware that it isn't real. If they aren't, it can involve a hoax.
 
excreationist said:
How do you handle Santa / tooth fairy / easter bunny and children?
Do you
1) Actively teach children about those things
2) Agree with children if they are talking about those things
3) Tell them they are made up if the child specifically asks
4) Actively tell children that those things are made up

To me it seems a bit immoral to lie about these things to children but I guess there is pressure from society to allow young children to believe these things.

So far on a Christian message board all three replies would tell the kids the truth.
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A good parent explains how metaphor and myth works. It's fine to tell children that Santa, Tooth Fairy exists when they're very young but fold as soon as they question it. That's good parenting. It might shield them from later becoming theists.

People who seriously believe in God are people who never learned how we use myth in societies and in our stories. It's an impoverished life.
 
DrZoidberg said:
A good parent explains how metaphor and myth works. It's fine to tell children that Santa, Tooth Fairy exists when they're very young but fold as soon as they question it. That's good parenting. It might shield them from later becoming theists.

People who seriously believe in God are people who never learned how we use myth in societies and in our stories. It's an impoverished life.
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Bedtime stories can involve myth. Myth doesn't require people to believe it is true. Also kids can "play make believe" rather than them being taught that it is a fact.
 
excreationist said:
DrZoidberg said:
A good parent explains how metaphor and myth works. It's fine to tell children that Santa, Tooth Fairy exists when they're very young but fold as soon as they question it. That's good parenting. It might shield them from later becoming theists.

People who seriously believe in God are people who never learned how we use myth in societies and in our stories. It's an impoverished life.
Click to expand...
Bedtime stories can involve myth. Myth doesn't require people to believe it is true. Also kids can "play make believe" rather than them being taught that it is a fact.
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Yup. Just like God in Christianity.
 
Tharmas said:
I know a woman who, while her kids were still young enough to believe in Santa, but old enough to willfully misbehave, would pull out her phone and say “I’m calling Santa right now!”
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No, never did that. That would reduce our authority. Our kids behaved because _WE_ would punish them if they didn't. Xmas was not an event to validate or punish behavior.
All holidays were for celebrating, not judging.
 
excreationist said:
Even though it is cute to get kids to believe those things, I think it is still immoral since it is lying that doesn't prevent some greater evil.
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So, you are, or are going to be, COMPLETELY honest with your child?

Good luck with that.

There is nothing like a small child to find out what 'truthful' really means. And just how often we lie.

We may call it various things, like 'shading the truth' or 'a polite fiction' or something, but none of us grown-ups are as truthful as children can be. Unless we're off our meds.

Like telling someone, "He's okay, once you get to know him." He's not. The fact is, he's a cunt, but you get used to it.
 
excreationist said:
T.G.G. Moogly said:
It's entertainment, much of which, if not most, of course, is a lie. Entertainment which is not factual is therefore immoral and harmful. You could be correct. What is the game and what are the rules?
Click to expand...
In entertainment people are aware that it isn't real. If they aren't, it can involve a hoax.
Click to expand...

Christians are living a hoax and they like it. People don't fly around in the sky or come back to life after being dead. This is the great religious double standard, here it's applied to kids and santa, but not to demigods and miracles. Who's preaching out of two sides of their mouth?

Maybe there is a great santa spirit that causes this celebration to occur. Do these christians know for a fact that this is not the case? How do they know? Should they take a neutral position and explain to their three-year-old child both sides of the debate? Should they say we will celebrate santa but don't really know?

If a kid believes santa is real it is no different than an adult believing humans can levitate into the sky, come back to life, walk through walls, multiply food, make wine from water and all other magic tricks. Who's the puritanical moralist and obvious hypocrite wearing blinders?
 
This thread reminds me of the time I had my wife arrested for fraud because she made our six month old believe that she'd pulled his nose off.
 
Keith&Co. said:
... snip ...

We may call it various things, like 'shading the truth' or 'a polite fiction' or something, but none of us grown-ups are as truthful as children can be. Unless we're off our meds.

... snip ...
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But it isn't that children don't lie. It is just that they haven't they haven't yet figured out when they may get away with it and when it is obviously a lie. A three year old covered in cookie crumbs sitting next to a broken cookie jar when asked, "who broke the cookie jar?" may well answer, "not me."

Also young kids haven't yet figured out when they really shouldn't say some of the truths that they do. They may well point to a special and distinguished guest in your home that you are trying to impress and ask, "Why are you so fat?"
 
excreationist said:
Keith&Co. said:
....Like telling someone, "He's okay, once you get to know him." He's not. The fact is, he's a cunt, but you get used to it.
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You could just say "we don't get along very well".
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You could. But then it's still not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, is it?
 
bilby said:
excreationist said:
Keith&Co. said:
....Like telling someone, "He's okay, once you get to know him." He's not. The fact is, he's a cunt, but you get used to it.
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You could just say "we don't get along very well".
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You could. But then it's still not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, is it?
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Well they could explain the reasons why they are a c*nt without having to swear. And refusing to give a full answer could still be classified as being honest.

I don't think there are strong reasons to make up stories like the Santa story to tell to kids... it is even possible to be honest about sex with kids. See this video: (NSFW)
https://vimeo.com/27847934
 
Also parents could say to the kid that they don't want to tell them - that is being honest. (I asked a senior worker recently about what everyone earned and they refused to answer. That is still being honest - not open and honest, but honest)
 
excreationist said:
bilby said:
You could. But then it's still not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, is it?
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Well they could explain the reasons why they are a c*nt without having to swear.

I don't think there are strong reasons to make up stories like the Santa story to tell to kids... it is even possible to be honest about sex with kids. See this video: (NSFW)
https://vimeo.com/27847934
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You are kidding? This is how you think a six year old should be answered when they ask, "where did I come from"?

It reminds me of a story: Little Bobby came home from school one day and asked his parents where he came from. They sat him down and explained in detail all about sex. He sat wide-eyed and blank-faced until they finished then asked if he understood. To which he just shook his head and said, "Not really... Jimmy told me he was from Cleveland."
 
skepticalbip said:
excreationist said:
bilby said:
You could. But then it's still not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, is it?
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Well they could explain the reasons why they are a c*nt without having to swear.

I don't think there are strong reasons to make up stories like the Santa story to tell to kids... it is even possible to be honest about sex with kids. See this video: (NSFW)
https://vimeo.com/27847934
Click to expand...

You are kidding? This is how you think a six year old should be answered when they ask, "where did I come from"?

It reminds me of a story: Little Bobby came home from school one day and asked his parents where he came from. They sat him down and explained in detail all about sex. He sat wide-eyed and blank-faced until they finished then asked if he understood. To which he just shook his head and said, "Not really... Jimmy told me he was from Cleveland."
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Ah. For some reason I can't see the link in the original post.

That video is adapted from a book I remember from my early childhood. It taught me that a man should wear the same jumper for nine months while his wife is pregnant.

Things have moved on a bit since 1975.
 
skepticalbip said:
excreationist said:
I don't think there are strong reasons to make up stories like the Santa story to tell to kids... it is even possible to be honest about sex with kids. See this video: (NSFW)
https://vimeo.com/27847934
Click to expand...

You are kidding? This is how you think a six year old should be answered when they ask, "where did I come from"?
Click to expand...
I said it is "possible to be honest about sex with kids" not that this "should" be used at any opportunity.
 
excreationist said:
skepticalbip said:
excreationist said:
I don't think there are strong reasons to make up stories like the Santa story to tell to kids... it is even possible to be honest about sex with kids. See this video: (NSFW)
https://vimeo.com/27847934
Click to expand...

You are kidding? This is how you think a six year old should be answered when they ask, "where did I come from"?
Click to expand...
I said it is "possible to be honest about sex with kids" not that this "should" be used at any opportunity.
Click to expand...

Is there anything wrong with that presentation? I don't think I was traumatized by it when I was six years old. My only objection (which I still have today) is that the artwork is rather ugly (and VERY 1970s).
 
bilby said:
excreationist said:
I said it is "possible to be honest about sex with kids" not that this "should" be used at any opportunity.
Click to expand...

Is there anything wrong with that presentation? I don't think I was traumatized by it when I was six years old. My only objection (which I still have today) is that the artwork is rather ugly (and VERY 1970s).
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It seemed skepticalbip might have a problem with it. BTW I think the ugliness is good - if it was realistic it would be kind of pornographic.
 
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