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China mad at Trumpster

 
 
 
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Harry Bosch

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Harry_Bosch said:
Uh oh:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ne-call/ar-AAl6cid?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

I'm obviously no fan of Trumpster, but I have to say that this doesn't seem such a big deal to me. The freely elected president of Taiwan called Trump to offer congratulations. He called her back. For the Chinese to call this a "highly provocative action, of historic proportions" is a little teenager dramatic to me.
Click to expand...
The Chinese gov't better get used to "A highly provocative action" from Trump because that describes much of what he says and does.
 
I understand Chinese culture and worked there for more than 10 years.

Trump can use this to his advantage to gain trade concessions if China feels he softens his stance and talks cooperation on a variety of issues.

A case in point though in reverse is Duterte of te Philippines. China is claiming Islands which the Philippines claims and won in the international court (where I'm sure the Beijing government weren't shaking in their boots at this).
Duterte said he would discuss this with Beijing amicably but at the same time gave the US the cold shoulder, the finger and called the US Ambassador Gay. He also likes Trump as he says they are the same type of character.

On his friendly visit to China the Beijing government gave him US$13.5b of trade deals to his delegation. As for the disputed Islands, China owns them but no longer harass the fishermen. In 100 years they will still be negotiating but the fishermen are free to fish there without problems. These islands are uninhabited rocks sticking out of the sea.

As for Taiwan this could be used to get some concessions from China like stop dumping under priced steel (with Beijing financing) into the USA.
 
My theory is that Trump wants to use the presidency to make money.

If that causes problems for relations with China, we'll just have to have problems.
 
Horatio Parker said:
My theory is that Trump wants to use the presidency to make money.

If that causes problems for relations with China, we'll just have to have problems.
Click to expand...

Agree. This looks like a first step toward generating yet another unending armed conflict that can be used to rationalize spending most of the US GDP on pointless weaponry. The game is "how much money can Donald Trump make in four years"? Those who voted for him are pawns in that game.
 
Harry_Bosch said:
Uh oh:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ne-call/ar-AAl6cid?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

I'm obviously no fan of Trumpster, but I have to say that this doesn't seem such a big deal to me. The freely elected president of Taiwan called Trump to offer congratulations. He called her back. For the Chinese to call this a "highly provocative action, of historic proportions" is a little teenager dramatic to me.
Click to expand...

Pissing off other major countries like this with no pre-planned strategic value (as far as we can tell) is all pain and no gain for our own interests.

There is a reason diplomatic protocals are in place: to build trust and prevent misunderstandings and costly blunders in international relations.

What Trump did here is throw some ambiguity into the US's 40 year committment to the "One China" policy, something that China considers to be at the top of their national interests and a key component in having productive relations with the US. That ambiguity was created entirely by his breach of protocal.
 
jonatha said:
whichphilosophy said:
As for Taiwan this could be used to get some concessions from China like stop dumping under priced steel (with Beijing financing) into the USA.
Click to expand...

What would be build his skyscapers out of then?
Click to expand...

US Steel. The problem I had when purchasing steel for use in Africa, is US, and British Steels were just not available. We had to obtain Chinese steel unless we waited nearly a year for these types of steel. The glut was caused by China dropping the sale price below the manufacturing costs while subsidized by Beijing.

We call this free trade but it is not fair trade.
 
Harry_Bosch said:
Uh oh:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ne-call/ar-AAl6cid?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

I'm obviously no fan of Trumpster, but I have to say that this doesn't seem such a big deal to me. The freely elected president of Taiwan called Trump to offer congratulations. He called her back. For the Chinese to call this a "highly provocative action, of historic proportions" is a little teenager dramatic to me.
Click to expand...

It is highly provocative by world diplomatic standards.

That being said, China could use a few slights like this!
 
Loren Pechtel said:
Harry_Bosch said:
Uh oh:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ne-call/ar-AAl6cid?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

I'm obviously no fan of Trumpster, but I have to say that this doesn't seem such a big deal to me. The freely elected president of Taiwan called Trump to offer congratulations. He called her back. For the Chinese to call this a "highly provocative action, of historic proportions" is a little teenager dramatic to me.
Click to expand...

It is highly provocative by world diplomatic standards.

That being said, China could use a few slights like this!
Click to expand...


They'll meet one day; enthusiasm for Taiwan may cease slightly, at least on paper. Taiwan invests a lot in Chinese industry and has benefited the mainland.
It's unlikely they will be at war hence the phrase by Chau En Lai, 'Diplomacy is a continuation of war by other means'
 
So since we're going back to the old US-China relations, does this mean we're going to refer to Taiwan as Formosa?
 
Harry_Bosch said:
Uh oh:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ne-call/ar-AAl6cid?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

I'm obviously no fan of Trumpster, but I have to say that this doesn't seem such a big deal to me. The freely elected president of Taiwan called Trump to offer congratulations. He called her back. For the Chinese to call this a "highly provocative action, of historic proportions" is a little teenager dramatic to me.
Click to expand...
I don't quite get it. She called him. He missed the call. He called her back. Is it the return phone call itself? I'm trying to eliminate that possibility since phone calls apparently aren't taboo--since she called first. Because he's a man and she isn't? Because his call was a return call and hers wasn't? Was there something about the content of the call? The fact he didn't answer when first called? I'm trying to get at the heart of the problem. I'm not up to date on proper etiquette with the Chinese.
 
Ford said:
So since we're going back to the old US-China relations, does this mean we're going to refer to Taiwan as Formosa?
Click to expand...

Taiwan has been an ally of the US since the 1949 and nothing has changed. The only difference is the top leaders since the PRC was recognized didn't speak to Taiwan direct.

China and Hong Kong are main export partners of Taiwan

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/taiwan/exports

Exports from Taiwan jumped 9.4 percent year-on-year to $26.75 billion in October of 2016, the biggest gain since August of 2014, mainly boosted by sales of parts of electronic products (+15.3 percent); information, communication and audio-video products (+18.2 percent); base metals and articles of base metals (+14.8 percent). Among trading partners, all major markets showed rising demand, with shipments increasing the most to China and Hong Kong (+14.9 percent), ASEAN countries (+13.2 percent), US (+7.8 percent), Europe (+6.8 percent) and Japan (+3.5 percent). Exports in Taiwan averaged 12282.24 USD Million from 1981 until 2016, reaching an all time high of 28585.12 USD Million in August of 2014 and a record low of 1406.50 USD Million in February of 1981.

China however considers Taiwan as one of its provinces and has legislation in place for running the province as a semi-autonomous region like Hong Kong. The laws call for one country two systems but based on the Hong Kong systems it would be more like two countries one system.

Taiwanese have also invested heavily in China brining capital and expertise. It's a good place for expats from the West if they can secure work contracts there.

Occasionally there's a bit of sabre rattling but I don't think any loose shots from Trump will have much effect on the current situation where China and Taiwan are under endless negotiations. Taiwan negotiates the Chinese way which is essentially to stall and put things off or simply prolong negotiations.

China cannot now afford to lose its exports to the US and I think this will involve some sabre rattling. Ideally Taiwan would be a separate state from China and call itself that but this is something the PRC could object to a bit strongly to. However with economic stagnation there at the moment and strict laws that make it difficult to PRC employers to dismiss long serving staff there will just be a few loud exchanges. (I think).

- - - Updated - - -

fast said:
Harry_Bosch said:
Uh oh:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ne-call/ar-AAl6cid?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

I'm obviously no fan of Trumpster, but I have to say that this doesn't seem such a big deal to me. The freely elected president of Taiwan called Trump to offer congratulations. He called her back. For the Chinese to call this a "highly provocative action, of historic proportions" is a little teenager dramatic to me.
Click to expand...
I don't quite get it. She called him. He missed the call. He called her back. Is it the return phone call itself? I'm trying to eliminate that possibility since phone calls apparently aren't taboo--since she called first. Because he's a man and she isn't? Because his call was a return call and hers wasn't? Was there something about the content of the call? The fact he didn't answer when first called? I'm trying to get at the heart of the problem. I'm not up to date on proper etiquette with the Chinese.
Click to expand...

Per Chau en Lau the etiquette is 'Diplomacy is a continuation of War by other means.'
 
fast said:
Harry_Bosch said:
Uh oh:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ne-call/ar-AAl6cid?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

I'm obviously no fan of Trumpster, but I have to say that this doesn't seem such a big deal to me. The freely elected president of Taiwan called Trump to offer congratulations. He called her back. For the Chinese to call this a "highly provocative action, of historic proportions" is a little teenager dramatic to me.
Click to expand...
I don't quite get it. She called him. He missed the call. He called her back. Is it the return phone call itself? I'm trying to eliminate that possibility since phone calls apparently aren't taboo--since she called first. Because he's a man and she isn't? Because his call was a return call and hers wasn't? Was there something about the content of the call? The fact he didn't answer when first called? I'm trying to get at the heart of the problem. I'm not up to date on proper etiquette with the Chinese.
Click to expand...
To understand the issue properly you have to go underneath the veneer of the words.

Remember, strictly speaking, words don't have meanings. :p
EB
 
Horatio Parker said:
My theory is that Trump wants to use the presidency to make money.

If that causes problems for relations with China, we'll just have to have problems.
Click to expand...

The tacit assumption with this theory is that he knows what the One China policy is, and that this could be viewed as a sleight by China or a political win for Taiwan. Considering he's tweeting his diplomatic interactions like he just went to IHOP for waffles with grandpa I'm thinking it was just inept ego-stroking.
 
Deepak said:
Horatio Parker said:
My theory is that Trump wants to use the presidency to make money.

If that causes problems for relations with China, we'll just have to have problems.
Click to expand...

The tacit assumption with this theory is that he knows what the One China policy is, and that this could be viewed as a sleight by China or a political win for Taiwan. Considering he's tweeting his diplomatic interactions like he just went to IHOP for waffles with grandpa I'm thinking it was just inept ego-stroking.
Click to expand...

Agreed. And I think that we should get ready for more of the same.
 
whichphilosophy said:
Taiwan has been an ally of the US since the 1949 and nothing has changed. The only difference is the top leaders since the PRC was recognized didn't speak to Taiwan direct.

China and Hong Kong are main export partners of Taiwan

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/taiwan/exports

Exports from Taiwan jumped 9.4 percent year-on-year to $26.75 billion in October of 2016, the biggest gain since August of 2014, mainly boosted by sales of parts of electronic products (+15.3 percent); information, communication and audio-video products (+18.2 percent); base metals and articles of base metals (+14.8 percent). Among trading partners, all major markets showed rising demand, with shipments increasing the most to China and Hong Kong (+14.9 percent), ASEAN countries (+13.2 percent), US (+7.8 percent), Europe (+6.8 percent) and Japan (+3.5 percent). Exports in Taiwan averaged 12282.24 USD Million from 1981 until 2016, reaching an all time high of 28585.12 USD Million in August of 2014 and a record low of 1406.50 USD Million in February of 1981.

China however considers Taiwan as one of its provinces and has legislation in place for running the province as a semi-autonomous region like Hong Kong. The laws call for one country two systems but based on the Hong Kong systems it would be more like two countries one system.

Taiwanese have also invested heavily in China brining capital and expertise. It's a good place for expats from the West if they can secure work contracts there.

Occasionally there's a bit of sabre rattling but I don't think any loose shots from Trump will have much effect on the current situation where China and Taiwan are under endless negotiations. Taiwan negotiates the Chinese way which is essentially to stall and put things off or simply prolong negotiations.

China cannot now afford to lose its exports to the US and I think this will involve some sabre rattling. Ideally Taiwan would be a separate state from China and call itself that but this is something the PRC could object to a bit strongly to. However with economic stagnation there at the moment and strict laws that make it difficult to PRC employers to dismiss long serving staff there will just be a few loud exchanges. (I think).

- - - Updated - - -

fast said:
Harry_Bosch said:
Uh oh:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ne-call/ar-AAl6cid?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

I'm obviously no fan of Trumpster, but I have to say that this doesn't seem such a big deal to me. The freely elected president of Taiwan called Trump to offer congratulations. He called her back. For the Chinese to call this a "highly provocative action, of historic proportions" is a little teenager dramatic to me.
Click to expand...
I don't quite get it. She called him. He missed the call. He called her back. Is it the return phone call itself? I'm trying to eliminate that possibility since phone calls apparently aren't taboo--since she called first. Because he's a man and she isn't? Because his call was a return call and hers wasn't? Was there something about the content of the call? The fact he didn't answer when first called? I'm trying to get at the heart of the problem. I'm not up to date on proper etiquette with the Chinese.
Click to expand...

Per Chau en Lau the etiquette is 'Diplomacy is a continuation of War by other means.'
Click to expand...
Well, shit, she started it! What was she thinking would be the reaction to call him to congratulate him? She clearly wants a war since a congratulations could be considered a prelude to diplomatic relation building.
 
Speakpigeon said:
fast said:
I don't quite get it. She called him. He missed the call. He called her back. Is it the return phone call itself? I'm trying to eliminate that possibility since phone calls apparently aren't taboo--since she called first. Because he's a man and she isn't? Because his call was a return call and hers wasn't? Was there something about the content of the call? The fact he didn't answer when first called? I'm trying to get at the heart of the problem. I'm not up to date on proper etiquette with the Chinese.
Click to expand...
To understand the issue properly you have to go underneath the veneer of the words.
Click to expand...
It's dark down there.

Remember, strictly speaking, words don't have meanings. :p
EB
Click to expand...
By dark, I mean cold. Someone cut the heat up, preferably with a glowing fire, since I was just kidding about what I mean by dark.
 
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