China to send crewed missions to Moon AND Mars!

[pood]

China roadmap (sky map?) for space includes not just a crewed mission to Mars, and the establishment of a permanent base there, but ALSO a crewed mission to Mars by 2033 (!) They plan to set up a permanent base there, too.

I wish them luck. I know Elon Musk ain’t sending anybody anywhere.

 

[Politesse]

I hope they succeed! We deserve a functioning space program.

 

[pood]

I hope they succeed! We deserve a functioning space program.

I think they will succeed. Their space program is robust. While I doubt the efficacy or need for sending people to Mars, doing so is undeniably exciting and awakens the kid in me. If Mars has life, people on Mars are far more likely to find it than machines. And a 2033 deadline is really breathtaking. I might live to see people on Mars!

 

[steve_bank]

Don't know about today, NASA had been collaborating with China.

I can see it coming, territorial and resource disputes on the Moon and Marts. It is inevitable


The4 Moon is really an historical province of China.

 

[pood]

Don't know about today, NASA had been collaborating with China.

I can see it coming, territorial and resource disputes on the Moon and Marts. It is inevitable


The4 Moon is really an historical province of China.

Yes, probably territorial disputes and war for the moon and Mars are in the offing. It’s really pathetic, that humans are capable of such tremendous feats yet remain stubbornly minded in tribalism, nationalism and xenophobia.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Don't know about today, NASA had been collaborating with China.

I can see it coming, territorial and resource disputes on the Moon and Marts. It is inevitable

The moon, as far as we know, isn't rife with resources. Mars isn't particularly well explored either. The benefit of a manned mission would be the ease to obtain geologic samples... with a shovel.

As far as a permanent base on Mars are we even certain how well we'd manage biologically. How many doctors can you afford to send on a mission?

 

[pood]

Don't know about today, NASA had been collaborating with China.

I can see it coming, territorial and resource disputes on the Moon and Marts. It is inevitable

The moon, as far as we know, isn't rife with resources. Mars isn't particularly well explored either. The benefit of a manned mission would be the ease to obtain geologic samples... with a shovel.

As far as a permanent base on Mars are we even certain how well we'd manage biologically. How many doctors can you afford to send on a mission?

Yes, that is why I say I doubt the efficacy of all this, but presumably China is considering every variable. It’s a nation with tremendous resources, technical know-how and intelligence, as much as I despise their stupid government. If anyone can do it, they can. The U.S. certainly isn’t doing anything of this caliber, despite paying lip service to manned Mars missions off and on since 1969. And of course we are trying to return people to the moon with the Artemis program, but it keeps getting pushed back with the usual technical glitches and cost overruns that are NASA hallmarks, at least with respect to crewed flight. Their uncrewed flights have been big successes.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Sure. But the thing is, I think the James Webb telescope is roughly 10,000 times more valuable than putting people on Mars. The probe to Europa, has a greater gain than going to Mars. There are things we could do better in person on Mars for exploration sake, but going to Mars feels a lot more like an engineering problem than a goal for sustainable space exploration.

 

[pood]

Sure. But the thing is, I think the James Webb telescope is roughly 10,000 times more valuable than putting people on Mars. The probe to Europa, has a greater gain than going to Mars. There are things we could do better in person on Mars for exploration sake, but going to Mars feels a lot more like an engineering problem than a goal for sustainable space exploration.

The Webb and the Europa probe are absolutely great things, but if humans could land on the Moon and Mars and sustain research stations there, that would also be fabulous for science. If Mars has life underground, a human with a shovel and a microscope is going to find it much more easily than the best machines we have devised so far.

 

[steve_bank]

Personally I do not think there is much value other than propaganda in going to the Moon and Mars.

Life support and long term low g are still problems.

Way back when Russia put Sputnik and a human in orbit it fueled American fear and drove us to beat the Russians to the Moon. JFK's famous proclamation.

Initially the Moon program had no science goals, it was about landing somebody on the Moon and bringing him back. A publicity stunt. I think it was the astronauts who argued for science content to the missions.

The Mercury astronauts had to argue for a window in the capsule and manual controls. For Von Braun all that mattered was getting somebody in orbit and back.

 

[Elixir]

I do not think there is much value other than propaganda in going to the Moon and Mars.

i disagree about the moon. There are a lot of ways we could benefit from a base near the rim of earth’s gravity well. That would include enhancing our ability to explore the rest of our solar system with either manned or un-manned missions.

 

[thebeave]

Going to Mars to land there and bring the astronauts back a time or two would have value as a tribute to the human spirt and our "can do" attitude (another "one giant leap for mankind" kind of thing) but spending untold billions putting any kind of base there or doing extensive human led research is a bit looney IMHO. The Mars rovers have been a huge success and we seem to have perfected ways to land them there safely. I don't see the requirement for needing any humans to do the research on Mars. Let the robots do all the work. Or maybe Matt Damon, if he wants to go. The idea of terraforming Mars like Elon and others have proposed to replace our polluted planet is super far fetched and ridiculous. Didn't they learn anything from Wrath of Khan? That shit's dangerous!

 

[pood]

Going to Mars to land there and bring the astronauts back a time or two would have value as a tribute to the human spirt and our "can do" attitude (another "one giant leap for mankind" kind of thing) but spending untold billions putting any kind of base there or doing extensive human led research is a bit looney IMHO. The Mars rovers have been a huge success and we seem to have perfected ways to land them there safely. I don't see the requirement for needing any humans to do the research on Mars. Let the robots do all the work. Or maybe Matt Damon, if he wants to go. The idea of terraforming Mars like Elon and others have proposed to replace our polluted planet is super far fetched and ridiculous. Didn't they learn anything from Wrath of Khan? That shit's dangerous!

I mostly completely agree, but if China wants to spend the untold sums to do all this, have at it. It’s not like their public has any say in the matter, after all.

 

[pood]

Of course, if China does do this, no doubt the U.S. will race to catch up. How much better it would be if all the space-faring nations collaborated on the project and split the costs. Never happen, given human tribalism.

 

[TomC]

Going to Mars to land there and bring the astronauts back a time or two would have value as a tribute to the human spirt and our "can do" attitude (another "one giant leap for mankind" kind of thing) but spending untold billions putting any kind of base there or doing extensive human led research is a bit looney IMHO. The Mars rovers have been a huge success and we seem to have perfected ways to land them there safely. I don't see the requirement for needing any humans to do the research on Mars. Let the robots do all the work. Or maybe Matt Damon, if he wants to go. The idea of terraforming Mars like Elon and others have proposed to replace our polluted planet is super far fetched and ridiculous. Didn't they learn anything from Wrath of Khan? That shit's dangerous!

This opinion makes me rather unpopular amongst a certain sort. But I vehemently oppose manned space flight beyond Earth orbit. Much less colonies on the moon or Mars.

The resources that it would require to safely put a handful of residents on the moon could probably fund vaccination for all humans. A Mars colony would probably cost more than supplying safe drinking water to the whole 3rd world.
Until we humans are capable of taking care of each other and the one planet we evolved to live on comfortably, manned space exploration will look less like showing spirit and more like a cancer metastasizing into the rest of the universe.
To me.
Tom

 

[pood]

Going to Mars to land there and bring the astronauts back a time or two would have value as a tribute to the human spirt and our "can do" attitude (another "one giant leap for mankind" kind of thing) but spending untold billions putting any kind of base there or doing extensive human led research is a bit looney IMHO. The Mars rovers have been a huge success and we seem to have perfected ways to land them there safely. I don't see the requirement for needing any humans to do the research on Mars. Let the robots do all the work. Or maybe Matt Damon, if he wants to go. The idea of terraforming Mars like Elon and others have proposed to replace our polluted planet is super far fetched and ridiculous. Didn't they learn anything from Wrath of Khan? That shit's dangerous!

This opinion makes me rather unpopular amongst a certain sort. But I vehemently oppose manned space flight beyond Earth orbit. Much less colonies on the moon or Mars.

The resources that it would require to safely put a handful of residents on the moon could probably fund vaccination for all humans. A Mars colony would probably cost more than supplying safe drinking water to the whole 3rd world.
Until we humans are capable of taking care of each other and the one planet we evolved to live on comfortably, manned space exploration will look less like showing spirit and more like a cancer metastasizing into the rest of the universe.
To me.
Tom

I can’t disagree with this, but on the other hand, achieving a long-aspirational dream of landing on the moon and Mars, and establishing sustainable research stations there (not to be confused with colonies), especially if done as international collaboration, might inspire the world, and bring it together as one, despite all our strife and woe …

Nah. Who am I kidding? It will just bring war to outer space.

 

[pood]

But, maybe we could at least prevail upon China to ship Donald Trump to Mars and leave him there.

 

[thebeave]

Going to Mars to land there and bring the astronauts back a time or two would have value as a tribute to the human spirt and our "can do" attitude (another "one giant leap for mankind" kind of thing) but spending untold billions putting any kind of base there or doing extensive human led research is a bit looney IMHO. The Mars rovers have been a huge success and we seem to have perfected ways to land them there safely. I don't see the requirement for needing any humans to do the research on Mars. Let the robots do all the work. Or maybe Matt Damon, if he wants to go. The idea of terraforming Mars like Elon and others have proposed to replace our polluted planet is super far fetched and ridiculous. Didn't they learn anything from Wrath of Khan? That shit's dangerous!

This opinion makes me rather unpopular amongst a certain sort. But I vehemently oppose manned space flight beyond Earth orbit. Much less colonies on the moon or Mars.

The resources that it would require to safely put a handful of residents on the moon could probably fund vaccination for all humans. A Mars colony would probably cost more than supplying safe drinking water to the whole 3rd world.
Until we humans are capable of taking care of each other and the one planet we evolved to live on comfortably, manned space exploration will look less like showing spirit and more like a cancer metastasizing into the rest of the universe.
To me.
Tom

I don't really disagree that much with what you said, and its part of the reason why I nixed the idea of establishing any kind of base or extended human based research on Mars. It would take an ungodly amount of money to achieve with little tangible benefit. Money that could better be spent elsewhere right here on Earth. I think after the first couple of manned trips to Mars we would probably get Mars fatigue (much like moon fatigue in the '70's with the later Apollo missions) anyway. I didn't mention the Moon in my screed, but, yeah, I don't think I would be in favor of a moon base, at least one funded by US taxpayer dollars. If China or Elon want to spend their own money to go, then I say let them have at it.

 

[steve_bank]

The GAO in the past has said in the long run NASA has stimulated more tax revenue than the NASA budget.

The problem is can humans live off planet in any significant numbers. I doubt it.

What do you do about sex? Unless they are sterilized there will undoubtedly be pregnancies even with birth control. Young healthy people overflowing with hormones and the excitement of exploration.

You can look at the 80s Biosphere experiment. Not just physical problems, social problems as well.

 

[Tigers!]

The GAO in the past has said in the long run NASA has stimulated more tax revenue than the NASA budget.

The problem is can humans live off planet in any significant numbers. I doubt it.

What do you do about sex?

Abstinence my dear fellow. Abstinence.

Unless they are sterilized there will undoubtedly be pregnancies even with birth control. Young healthy people overflowing with hormones and the excitement of exploration.

You can look at the 80s Biosphere experiment. Not just physical problems, social problems as well.

We will take those problems with us. The strife within us will not ended by going to another world.