Christians are crucifying each other

[ideologyhunter]

The best-known example happens every year in the farming village of San Pedro Cutud, Philippines, and is described in its wikipedia article, San Pedro Cutud Lenten Rites. Every year, at least 3 penitents are chosen to be nailed to a cross and left hanging there about 10 minutes, or until they signal that they feel they are washed free of their sins. Last year, 8 penitents were crucified. The ceremony is legally protected in the Philippines, and there has been some push to get the rite added to the UNESCO Intangible Cultural Heritage Lists, to make it a protected tradition with world recognition. When The Week covered the rite (issue of 4/21/23), the piece closed with a quote from Kitty Ennett, a tourist from Ireland, who said what she saw was "a very religious experience."
Can you imagine traveling to San Pedro Cutud to watch the locals nail each other to a cross? I'd like to see the tchotchkes on sale, and the food vendors -- 'I'll have the lamb kebab, and the kids want cinnamon Jesus on a stick.'
I'd call it an exceedingly religious experience -- maybe a definitional one. And seeing how performative our religious right MAGA types are.... Can you imagine the boost Trump would get, from a 10 minute crucifixion? (Obviously he'd get Eric to wear an orange pompadour wig...) "He survived having a landslide victory stolen from him...indictment after indictment...criminal conviction...Jimmy Kimmel monologues...two assassination attempts, and counting...and a CRUCIFIXION. He is the man God has called to lead our nation. I am Donald J. Trump, and with bloody little hands, I approved this message."

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I need more details. Do they actually pound roman type hammered nails through the joints at the wrists and ankles? As for Orange Jesus I suppose he'd get a boost in ratings if he did this to himself but then again he'd alienate all sane persons in the electorate.

How does their health insurance work? I'd imagine there's quite a risk of complications if indeed they do it the old way and don't wimp out and apply hygienic standards. Who's their underwriter?

And hanging for ten minutes? Give me a break. Call me back when they hang until dead, get stabbed, have their legs broken and then come out of their graves after three days.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Real nails, soaked in alcohol first. Not sure about the feet. My guess: hands only, with some cross piece to stand on during the crucifixion. If it was me, I'd work up some commercial endorsements and slip them into my witness: "You know, a savior can build up some appetite, hanging up here. When I get down, I'm getting the 10 piece Saucy Nuggs at Wendy's, and I'm washin' 'em down with a Frosty. Finger food that's so easy to eat, you can even manage it after a crucifyin'. Jesus takes your sins away...Wendy's has the cure for your munchies. Es muy bueno."

 

[southernhybrid]

We used to own a condo in Panama City Beach, Florida, and while they didn't actually use nails, every Easter, several men would be tied to crosses in neighboring Panama City. Crazy, but at least they didn't use nails. They were just tied to crosses for part of the day. Religious zealots for sure. I wonder if they got extra "jewels in their crowns" for that.

 

[southernhybrid]

Ok, I found some evidence. IH isn't exaggerating this crazy shit.

https://apnews.com/article/philippi...nga-province-c725e903d17a356d2a179ef0cda17a9c

Sadly, his prayers for peace aren't working.

MANILA, Philippines (AP) — A Filipino villager has been nailed to a wooden cross for the 35th time to reenact Jesus Christ’s suffering in a brutal Good Friday tradition he said he would devote to pray for peace in Ukraine, Gaza and the disputed South China Sea.

On Friday, over a hundred people watched on as 10 devotees were nailed to wooden crosses, among them Ruben Enaje, a 63-year-old carpenter and sign painter. The real-life crucifixions have become an annual religious spectacle that draws tourists in three rural communities in Pampanga province, north of Manila.

The gory ritual resumed last year after a three-year pause due to the coronavirus pandemic. It has turned Enaje into a village celebrity for his role as the “Christ” in the Lenten reenactment of the Way of the Cross.

 

[steve_bank]

It is their cross to bear.

 

[bilby]

Do they actually pound roman type hammered nails through the joints at the wrists and ankles?

The Romans probably didn't; They generally used ropes to support crucifixees, on the twin grounds that iron nails were far too expensive to waste on execution of criminals; And were not particularly effective, as the criminals had a distressing tendency to slide off them and escape.

The idea that Christ was nailed to a cross seems to be an invention of the early medieval Roman Church, to whose members nails were (relatively) cheap, and crucifixions a poorly understood legend from several centuries before.

They knew that the Romans attached criminals to wooden crosses, and invented the gory details based on "how would I do it, if I had to do it today?".

It's difficult to get good data about this; a literature search for archaeological or historical information finds an avalanche of theses written by modern American researchers, all of whom are so steeped in Christianity as to be incapable of avoiding bias - basically, the vast majority of people who care enough to make this the subject of their research are people with an agenda.

As far as I can tell, there is no conclusive archaeological evidence of Roman crucifixion using nails. There is a single first century skeleton with an unusual leision on the bones of one foot that has been interpreted as evidence for the use of nails to crucify him, that appears in a lot of the literature on the subject. That many scholars find this scant "evidence" convincing, tells us more about the scholars than about Roman executions.

The use of nails through the hands and feet, rather than wrists and ankles, would be mechanically ineffective; However the routine use of nails through the more robust bones of the wrists and ankles, would be expected to leave much more clear archaeological evidence in skeletons than has actually been found.

Certainly, nails were available to the Romans; And there is some evidence that these were treated as objects of religious and/or magical power, so adding nails as well as cords, as an act of symbolism, rather than as a primary means to mechanically secure the victim, is not totally implausible.

But it's far from a certainty that nailing was routine in Roman crucifixion. And the only "information" about the technique in scripture is John 20:25; As the entire Gospel of John is known to be much later than the other three, the 'later embellishment' hypothesis for the use of nails in this way certainly has yet to be disproven.

If nails were used at all, it was probably symbolic, rather than the primary means to secure victims.

 

[Jarhyn]

This is just gross.

If people want to make pilgrimage of Jesus's life, they would: hang out with people on the edges of society; form radical ideas about what it means to exist as a person; form radical ideas about God and godhood and the divine; speak those ideas unafraid; commit to those ideas through a direct challenge to some corruption of authority around such ideas; be executed/removed/exiled/excommunicated for doing such.

 

[Tigers!]

Do they actually pound roman type hammered nails through the joints at the wrists and ankles?

The Romans probably didn't; They generally used ropes to support crucifixees, on the twin grounds that iron nails were far too expensive to waste on execution of criminals; And were not particularly effective, as the criminals had a distressing tendency to slide off them and escape.

The idea that Christ was nailed to a cross seems to be an invention of the early medieval Roman Church, to whose members nails were (relatively) cheap, and crucifixions a poorly understood legend from several centuries before.

They knew that the Romans attached criminals to wooden crosses, and invented the gory details based on "how would I do it, if I had to do it today?".

It's difficult to get good data about this; a literature search for archaeological or historical information finds an avalanche of theses written by modern American researchers, all of whom are so steeped in Christianity as to be incapable of avoiding bias - basically, the vast majority of people who care enough to make this the subject of their research are people with an agenda.

As far as I can tell, there is no conclusive archaeological evidence of Roman crucifixion using nails. There is a single first century skeleton with an unusual leision on the bones of one foot that has been interpreted as evidence for the use of nails to crucify him, that appears in a lot of the literature on the subject. That many scholars find this scant "evidence" convincing, tells us more about the scholars than about Roman executions.

The use of nails through the hands and feet, rather than wrists and ankles, would be mechanically ineffective; However the routine use of nails through the more robust bones of the wrists and ankles, would be expected to leave much more clear archaeological evidence in skeletons than has actually been found.

Certainly, nails were available to the Romans; And there is some evidence that these were treated as objects of religious and/or magical power, so adding nails as well as cords, as an act of symbolism, rather than as a primary means to mechanically secure the victim, is not totally implausible.

But it's far from a certainty that nailing was routine in Roman crucifixion. And the only "information" about the technique in scripture is John 20:25; As the entire Gospel of John is known to be much later than the other three, the 'later embellishment' hypothesis for the use of nails in this way certainly has yet to be disproven.

If nails were used at all, it was probably symbolic, rather than the primary means to secure victims.

Found this

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Found this

And I remember that article. Rope was the most common method but apparently nails were often used.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Crucifixion victims were usually stripped naked, to make their humiliation complete. And yes, I am recommending a redo on church statuary and stained glass windows. Kids who are forced to go to church gotta have something to snicker about. I mean, the naked truth shall set you free.

 

[steve_bank]

Christianity is a cult of pain. One feels the pain of Jesus and it feels good. A crucifix with a a bloody Jesus wearing a crown of thorns and blood running from his side.

The more I think about it the more bizarre and disturbing Christianity seems.

The stigmata.

stigmata, in Christian mysticism, bodily marks, scars, or pains corresponding to those of the crucified Jesus Christ—that is, on the hands, on the feet, near the heart, and sometimes on the head (from the crown of thorns) or shoulders and back (from carrying the cross and scourging).Aug 31, 2024

What is the medical reason for stigmata?
Some modern research has indicated stigmata are of hysterical origin or linked to dissociative identity disorder. There is a link between dietary constriction by self-starvation, dissociative mental states and self-mutilation, in the context of a religious belief.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Well, yeah. Blood sacrifice goes all the way through the Bible, culminating in human or human/god sacrifice. It's at least as pervasive a theme as the theoretical love of God.