Colorado club shooter is non-binary, CNN repeatedly misgenders them.

[Loren Pechtel]

Really the question is where various points of no return are reached.

Conception.

One conception can result in multiple births.

Multiple conceptions can result in a single birth without any lost pregnancy.

 

[Oleg]

Really the question is where various points of no return are reached.

Conception.

One conception can result in multiple births.

Multiple conceptions can result in a single birth without any lost pregnancy.

Well, okay. But the strings of genetic code that make you uniquely you begin at conception. That includes the genes involved with the expression of sex and sexual characteristics. Sure, you might be able to gene edit sex.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Are you often misgendered? I am often enough, on the phone, due to my naturally high tenor. I've never liked it, but it'd context that makes it hurt more than the act. If I hadn't spent my entire life being bullied and hurt by supposed friends and family for supposedly failing at masculinity and thus, by implication, essentially failing at being a human being, it probably wouldn't hurt quite as much when it happens accidentally at the Wendy's drive thru. But it did, and it does.

It happens all the time to me and having a name that's now gender-confusing (when I was born that was the male spelling. Now there is no male version) but it doesn't bother me. I think people's sensitivity varies--to me, if it's simply a mistake so what?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

What I really dislike about some of this gender stuff, is that is seems to put too much emphasis on stereotypical gender roles. I read about one woman who lost her husband. He had been a truck driver and after he died the wife became a truck driver and then started to identify as mostly male. WTF! I've known of female truck drivers. I met a woman who was an awesome tow truck driver. Sure, she was large and very strong, but she had a husband and children and considered herself a woman. Shouldn't gender stereotypes and roles be dead by now? I think that may be why some of this seems contradictory to me, despite my best efforts to understand it.

If you ever watch any videos of 'trans kids', you will see nothing but coached children tallying off gender stereotypes. Little Billy (who has now been renamed Aurora) always took to feminine-styled clothing and played with dolls. Obviously a girl! Little Jessica (now Max or Ash) pulled the ribbons out of her hair and fought like the dickens when she was required to wear a dress. Obviously a boy!

And you have some evidence of this coaching beyond the fact that you don't believe what they're saying?

 

[Oleg]

What I really dislike about some of this gender stuff, is that is seems to put too much emphasis on stereotypical gender roles. I read about one woman who lost her husband. He had been a truck driver and after he died the wife became a truck driver and then started to identify as mostly male. WTF! I've known of female truck drivers. I met a woman who was an awesome tow truck driver. Sure, she was large and very strong, but she had a husband and children and considered herself a woman. Shouldn't gender stereotypes and roles be dead by now? I think that may be why some of this seems contradictory to me, despite my best efforts to understand it.

If you ever watch any videos of 'trans kids', you will see nothing but coached children tallying off gender stereotypes. Little Billy (who has now been renamed Aurora) always took to feminine-styled clothing and played with dolls. Obviously a girl! Little Jessica (now Max or Ash) pulled the ribbons out of her hair and fought like the dickens when she was required to wear a dress. Obviously a boy!

And you have some evidence of this coaching beyond the fact that you don't believe what they're saying?

The Tragedy of Transhood | Jonathon Van Maren

In the few short years since transhood went mainstream, childhood and adolescence has become a haze of puberty blockers, testosterone shots, sex-change surgeries, and gender confusion for untold numbers of young people.

www.firstthings.com

The film also tells the story of Phoenix, a four-year-old boy who starts dressing in girl’s clothes. His parents promptly assume he’s a girl. They attend a Unitarian Universalist service, where the female minister invites anyone “lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, or questioning, intersex, pansexual, asexual, or any category I’ve left out” to “proclaim their identity publicly.” Phoenix’s mother hastily pulls him to the front and hands him the mic. “I just don’t want to tell them that I’m a girl,” the little boy says plaintively. His mother takes the mic: “Phoenix would like you to know that she’s a girl and she prefers she and her pronouns.”

But eventually, Phoenix puts his foot down. “Phoenix decided to go back to living as a boy,” his mother says. “We didn’t know what was going on. It was all very sudden.” She realizes something: “It was a huge mistake. Children are not transgender. He’s a boy. He was born a boy.”

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Who would think that? Systemic discrimination against whites and males is alive and well.

Ah yes. I forgot that only reverse discrimination exists.

I can definitely see why you guys object so vehemently to higher education.

Discrimination exists in both directions. One does not counter the other, both are wrong.

 

[Metaphor]

What I really dislike about some of this gender stuff, is that is seems to put too much emphasis on stereotypical gender roles. I read about one woman who lost her husband. He had been a truck driver and after he died the wife became a truck driver and then started to identify as mostly male. WTF! I've known of female truck drivers. I met a woman who was an awesome tow truck driver. Sure, she was large and very strong, but she had a husband and children and considered herself a woman. Shouldn't gender stereotypes and roles be dead by now? I think that may be why some of this seems contradictory to me, despite my best efforts to understand it.

If you ever watch any videos of 'trans kids', you will see nothing but coached children tallying off gender stereotypes. Little Billy (who has now been renamed Aurora) always took to feminine-styled clothing and played with dolls. Obviously a girl! Little Jessica (now Max or Ash) pulled the ribbons out of her hair and fought like the dickens when she was required to wear a dress. Obviously a boy!

And you have some evidence of this coaching beyond the fact that you don't believe what they're saying?

Yes: the evidence of my own eyes. I see children looking to their mothers
mummy did I get the answer right
when posed a question about their gender from a reporter.

No, I don't believe boys can be girls any more than I believe boys can be dogs or a flower or that children become whatever they pretend during play.

For fuck's sake, let feminine boys be feminine. Stop telling them that they are girls. You are lying to them.

 

[Oleg]

For fuck's sake, let feminine boys be feminine. Stop telling them that they are girls. You are lying to them.

It used to be that if a boy acted feminine, or a girl masculine, that was okay. Now, it means that they were born in the wrong body and need hormones and mutilation surgeries. Gays and lesbians are no longer allowed to exist, Mkay?

 

[ZiprHead]

A lot of absolutes and strawmen being thrown around here.

 

[Oleg]

A lot of absolutes and strawmen being thrown around here.

No strawmen at all. Young children are preyed upon by the gender cult if they have gender non-conforming behavior. Metaphor is right to hate the gender cult.

 

[ZiprHead]

A lot of absolutes and strawmen being thrown around here.

No strawmen at all. Young children are preyed upon by the gender cult if they have gender non-conforming behavior. Metaphor is right to hate the gender cult.

Every last one of the children, right?

BTW, thanks for proving me right.

 

[Metaphor]

A lot of absolutes and strawmen being thrown around here.

No strawmen at all. Young children are preyed upon by the gender cult if they have gender non-conforming behavior. Metaphor is right to hate the gender cult.

Every last one of the children, right?

Every child who is told they can be the other sex is being lied to. Every single one.

 

[ZiprHead]

A lot of absolutes and strawmen being thrown around here.

No strawmen at all. Young children are preyed upon by the gender cult if they have gender non-conforming behavior. Metaphor is right to hate the gender cult.

Every last one of the children, right?

Every child who is told they can be the other sex is being lied to. Every single one.

You sound jealous.

 

[Metaphor]

A lot of absolutes and strawmen being thrown around here.

No strawmen at all. Young children are preyed upon by the gender cult if they have gender non-conforming behavior. Metaphor is right to hate the gender cult.

Every last one of the children, right?

Every child who is told they can be the other sex is being lied to. Every single one.

You sound jealous.

Um, okay?

What would I be jealous of?

 

[southernhybrid]

Well, that's why I think gender perspectives haven't really changed since the Middle Ages quite as much as you implied.

That would only make sense if "the patriarchy still exists" were the only factor one were considering.

It's a stubborn beast, isn't it? Feminists have been dismantling the patriarchy for decades, or so I'm told.

Unless you ask a conservative, in which case uou'll be solemnly informed that racism and sexism are functionally extinct and the rule of law need not trouble with it.

Who would think that? Systemic discrimination against whites and males is alive and well.

I'm not talking about transgender. That's easy to understand. The brain matter doesn't always match up with the body parts. Those folks should be given the option to transition and be accepted for who they are. It's just a little harder to understand the concept of being gender fluid. Actually, it's becoming difficult to understand what the term gender even means.

Narcissism. It’s all narcissism. It’s the current way to be unique and important. Everyone must bow. But in reality it’s completely meaningless. The only categories that matter are male / female and gay / straight / bi.

Identifying with the other sex, if you have gender dysphoria, I can see as a coping mechanism.

But identifying as "Non-binary" seems to me an exercise in narcissism. It is somebody who needs to be the specialest snowflake. And it requires no change in any perceivable appearance or behaviour--because of course there is no non-binary sex.

I know a woman who calls herself 'they/them', and even has adopted the label 'queer' for herself. She is an attractive, feminine, heterosexual woman who has only ever been in monogamous relationships with men. Of course, she isn't remotely bisexual or lesbian, and even if she pretended she were, those identities no longer have any social currency. But if you are 'non-binary'? Girl you're dismantling the heteropatriarchy like nobody's business.

I don't know about that. I watched a bunch of videos by people who identify as nonbinary. They seemed very sincere and they did seem a bit out of what we might call mainstream gender. I'd call them nerdy or off beat, if I had to judge them.

While I don't really understand exactly why they feel this gender concept is so important, they didn't seem narcissistic. They just seemed to think that their gender ID was very important to them. I don't understand why being misgendered is such a terrible thing, but I'm not one who ever lets other people's opinions of me hurt me, so it's always been difficult for me to understand why other people's feelings get so easily hurt, especially by people who they barely know. Apparently, not everyone is able to ignore the things that others say about them that they feel are insulting. I don't think anyone should be discriminated against or bullied due to being a minority of any type. That's different from simply being called a she when you feel like a they, assuming it's not done out of malice.

I just like to understand where people are coming from as much as possible and how best to make them feel comfortable around me. If it takes referring to one as they, that's cool, even if I don't understand it. There are certainly far more important things to be concerned about in today's world. I would hope that all of us could agree on that, regardless of how we perceive our genders.

What I really dislike about some of this gender stuff, is that is seems to put too much emphasis on stereotypical gender roles. I read about one woman who lost her husband. He had been a truck driver and after he died the wife became a truck driver and then started to identify as mostly male. WTF! I've known of female truck drivers. I met a woman who was an awesome tow truck driver. Sure, she was large and very strong, but she had a husband and children and considered herself a woman. Shouldn't gender stereotypes and roles be dead by now? I think that may be why some of this seems contradictory to me, despite my best efforts to understand it.

Then again, maybe there are some people who literally have an odd mix of white and grey brain matter or a hormonal mix that makes it difficult for them to identify as one gender. I don't think we know at this point whether nonbinary gender is purely a social construct or if there is something more to it.


Anyway......I think I've said more than enough.

In a lot of ways, folks like me are nonbinary specifically as a rejection of gender norms.

What most of those who refuse to accept pronoun suggestions perhaps realize but do not wish to speak out loud is that no matter what they claim, with pronoun use comes sex essentialism riding on its coattails.

People expect something from "men".

People expect something from "women".

And moreover they don't want to be expected not to expect as much!

What they expect is often purely behavioral, and while some people seek to fulfill the "best of" and the "worst of" these stereotypes, often as a matter of course or perhaps without any conscious effort at all, some people don't, can't, or won't play that game.

What o do know is this: over the last month I've been experimenting with different doses of Spironolactone. It is a testosterone antagonist. At my current dosage I am expected to be about as impacted by testosterone as a prepubescent individual, mostly because I want to keep my bones from leeching calcium.

Just this last week I had my first follow-up and testing session, which was primarily to monitor possible effects with respect to my kidneys at a known dosage, however now I have been given leave to experiment on dosage with respect to Double and Nothing.

Yesterday was my first, and last day, not taking any. I absolutely hated the intrusiveness of the "sexual" thoughts. For weeks I've been free of it all, and then yesterday it was as if it had turned up to 15, on a scale of 10.

If there were boobs? I found myself being  shoved to stare at them, even if the result of staring was "I don't even like looking at these why am I looking at these? Can I please not?"

Imagine this: you probably either now or when you were younger didn't like other people staring at your breasts. Imagine not liking breasts being stared at by your eyes, the lecherous perv being inside your brain somewhere but not exactly the part of you that is "you" in the same way as the part of you that beats your heart or breaths air into your lungs.

You know, for the past 25 years I just chalked it up to the fact I hate looking at faces, and shirts have interesting stuff on them? The fact that I always look down and away? But no, it was like a website trying to advertise a product I don't even like by shoving it into the frame constantly... but by my own fucking endocrine system.

Sometimes it has as much to do with something inside you pushing you to be something that does not fit the person who you are, something which gains in strength from the presence or absence of a hormone, something that pushes you on who you are even if the push is unwanted, even if it is a gross violation. Imagine being touched in an unwanted way not on your body, but your very thoughts!

Imagine a father in your life who keeps telling you to be a "proper lady", and that "you will never find a man acting like that", and to "smile more"... But instead of another person it's something inside your own head.

For many trans people it starts with living while fighting against a current in one's head that is very insistent on telling them to be something they are not. In the instance of mere behavioral transition it lets someone experiment, even in the face of a wind fighting against them, to discover ways of acting that more befit their own desires for themselves above those desires of compartments fueled by their endocrine balance.

I can say this with distinct confidence now, that this is the case, because I have lived it. I have directly observed, through differential diagnosis, that testosterone is the driver of those nerve cells and their unwanted intrusive thoughts and even behaviors.

I can't decide to suddenly LIKE the effects testosterone has on me. The effects only make me miserable. I had some respite from just ignoring them to the best of my ability but now that I don't have to I feel at peace.

Being misgendered sucks specifically because it is a return, an echo of that droning force, that expectation, but foisted upon you by others, expected by others. It's saying "you are that voice from the back of your head that you already are fighting against, and you can never escape it, a d you shouldn't even try. It defines you!"

It's a statement that they don't trust someone to have more leverage over themselves than the leverage held by a droning "hormone monster", even when that hormone monster has been killed. It's demoralizing and moreover counterproductive to the act of self-actualization.

Thanks for sharing your complex issues, but what you have described sounds more like a transgender person who feels stuck in the body of the sex that doesn't reflect their brain. That must be very difficult. I can understand how difficult it must be to be transgender and be conflicted by your body parts. It's the gender fluidity, based primarily on what I've read on sites specifically for such folks that I am having trouble understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying that because one's body parts don't match their brains, such as in the case of a transgender person, that it's better or acceptable to simply identify as nonbinary? That makes some sense, but most people who identify as nonbinary aren't transgender. There is plenty of science to help us understand transgenderism. Unfortunately, some people simply don't want to change their misperceptions of this aspect of gender.

There is not as of yet, that I know of, any science to help us understand being gender fluid or not having any gender, etc. It seems like more of a cultural thing. From what I've read, it's all about feeling that you aren't one gender or you are both genders or you don't have a gender. I've just never cared about my gender or given it much thought. I'm a biological female with some stereotypical female traits and some traits that may be considered more like a traditional male.

Nobody should feel inferior if they identify as male or female but don't fill the traditional stereotypical roles associated with that gender. One can be a male without being having any of the traditional male traits. I have a son that who has never been aggressive in his life and is very rarely assertive. He's a very nurturing father, although he's also in a male dominated profession. One that doesn't always appeal to females, according to some articles I've read over the years. His lack of assertiveness and aggressiveness are just personality traits, based on genetics and environmental influences. My son is a lot like his late paternal grandfather. It has nothing to do with his biological sex or gender.

So, if a person is very assertive but also very nurturing, does that mean that person could be nonbinary? If a man likes wearing lipstick, does the make him a they or just a man who likes to wear makeup? I've had female friends who were "butch", sometimes by their own description, but they still identified as heterosexual and female. Is that no longer a normal way to identify? If so, I think that's a bit off the wall. That is what I'm trying to understand and have yet to find a good answer. What exactly makes one feel as if they are more than one gender or no gender at all. What exactly do we even mean when we speak of gender these days? Believe me. I've searched with an open mind but have yet to find any rational answers. Still, if it makes someone feel good, I'll do my best to refer to them with the pronouns they request. It's just hard for me to understand why this is so important to people like my friend's daughter, who are age 19, who suddenly decided she is nonbinary.

As of now, the conclusion I've come to after much reading and listening to those who refer to themselves as nonbinary or gender fluid is that anyone can identify as any gender they feel like at the time. They can change their gender ID whenever they feel like it. And, if others misgender them, they will be deeply insulted and hurt, at least in many if not most cases. What am I missing?

Let me add that, I am very sorry that you have suffered with this problem and hope that you will find a way to resolve your disturbing thoughts and not let others devalue you if they accidentally or even purposely misgender you. Don't be upset by their expectations or criticisms of you. Be the person you are and don't give a fuck about what others think. I know that may be difficult, but I hope you will eventually reach that point.

What I really dislike about some of this gender stuff, is that is seems to put too much emphasis on stereotypical gender roles. I read about one woman who lost her husband. He had been a truck driver and after he died the wife became a truck driver and then started to identify as mostly male. WTF! I've known of female truck drivers. I met a woman who was an awesome tow truck driver. Sure, she was large and very strong, but she had a husband and children and considered herself a woman. Shouldn't gender stereotypes and roles be dead by now? I think that may be why some of this seems contradictory to me, despite my best efforts to understand it.

If you ever watch any videos of 'trans kids', you will see nothing but coached children tallying off gender stereotypes. Little Billy (who has now been renamed Aurora) always took to feminine-styled clothing and played with dolls. Obviously a girl! Little Jessica (now Max or Ash) pulled the ribbons out of her hair and fought like the dickens when she was required to wear a dress. Obviously a boy!

I've watched a program that included trans children and I didn't find that they were being coached at all. IN fact, those who were able to begin transitioning at an early age seemed happier. They seemed to know that their bodies didn't match the gender that they identified with, so I have to disagree with your statement. I've never had an issue with people who were transgender. It makes perfectly good sense to me that sometimes a person is born with body parts that don't match brain matter. I can imagine that it's very difficult for them, if they haven't been accepted by their families and supported by their communities.

That is very different, imo, from a person who identifies as multi gender or no gender or who changes their gender frequently. I don't see any harm in that. I'm just trying to have a better understanding of what it's all about. I'm not talking about trans folks who have never transitioned, as I can understand how they might feel as if they are two genders. I hope that those who hold minority gender Ids will be patient as social change almost always comes slowly. And, some conservatives will never accept anyone who is perceived as different from what they believe is normal.

I'm trying to understand why a 19 year old girl who has always been fine identifying as female, would suddenly feel as if she is either both genders or no gender at all. It appears that it's all just a social thing and considering that I live in a small socially conservative city, this is fairly new to me. Let me be clear that I"m not condemning these people. I'm just trying to have a better understanding of what exactly influences people who feel they are of multiple genders or no gender at all. But, this discussion is getting us nowhere so unless I find some good information to add, I have nothing more to say at this time.

 

[Jarhyn]

Thanks for sharing your complex issues, but what you have described sounds more like a transgender person who feels stuck in the body of the sex that doesn't reflect their brain

Not really "trans" unless you mean "trans-neuter".

It's not a confliction of body parts. The body parts I want and want to feel are not on the menu of "things easily evoked from human biochemistry".

It's the gender fluidity, based primarily on what I've read on sites specifically for such folks that I am having trouble understanding

I can't exactly speak to fluidity. As I have said, I think for the vast majority of "fluid" folks, it's an excuse to feel less constrained and to explore until they find where they really belong.

I'm admittedly not fluid. I'm also quite non-binary.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying that because one's body parts don't match their brains, such as in the case of a transgender person, that it's better or acceptable to simply identify as nonbinary?

No. It's not about body parts matching brains for me. I am not transgender in the typical way. I'm (chemically) a eunuch.

I'm not a woman.

My body naturally produces testosterone in levels higher than I wanted, so I take a medication that makes testosterone do nothing to my body.

I am saying that for those who are exploring, it's better to let them explore without making strict and strong declaration on what they are until they find it, test their feelings on the matter sufficiently, and make some informed decisions on the matter.

Sometimes, like me, they won't find themselves clear of "nonbinary" and sometimes they will.

There is not as of yet, that I know of, any science to help us understand being gender fluid or not having any gender, etc.

I can't give you a pile of research. I can only give you one observation by someone who has approached their own life in a scientific way.

Fluidity is in my estimation a crutch for most, much like most budding gays have a "bisexual" phase. I will grant that some people truly are bisexual. I have quite a number of friends. Even as a eunuch I'm still sexual, but it's something I approach creatively every time, and something I have to decide I want to do.

Nobody should feel inferior if they identify as male or female but don't fill the traditional stereotypical roles associated with that gender.

This is absolutely correct. But it does not change the fact that I don't identify as male or female. I spent the last two years to get permission to be a eunuch.

Obviously, there are ways I could make that happen more readily, but not without being considered as mentally damaged or unfit. It will take me months or even years of taking these pills before I will both have no testicles and also not be seen as a self-harmer.

I have dreams of having an opportunity to be the "house-spouse". This does not make me a woman.

I have dreams of having a career making things that disrupt the very foundations of society. This does not make me a man.

I am, exactly, a eunuch.

I'm pretty sure that's non-binary.

So, if a person is very assertive but also very nurturing, does that mean that person could be nonbinary?

Maybe, but probably not. For most, it's the halfway-out-of-the-egg-house. YMMV.

More I suspect it's not likely for neurotypical folks to ever be nonbinary. Vanishingly so, in fact.

For some I suppose it's "I dislike you assigning me a comorbidity just because I have some traits" or "you will never truly come to understand me by trying to put me in such a box."

What exactly do we even mean when we speak of gender these days? Believe me. I've searched with an open mind but have yet to find any rational answers

Exactly what I meant when I said before: that gender is the model of the ideal self, some image that you hope to reify.

One of the first things most people do is assign it traits THEY consider masculine or feminine, and then they seek to emulate those traits.

Sometimes there's more than one such image and people vacillate between which image they feel like at the moment.

Some people lack an image of such entirely.

When the ideal is the immediate seeming of yourself it can be hard to distinguish the idea that there is an image at all... You might just mistake that pretty of you as a mirror rather than a goal object!

That is in many ways what it means to be cis.

Sometimes the image is built and the builder sees a common thread between what drives their selection of aspects of this "perfect self" and they find that exactly what they like about all these things is their androgyny!

Why do people form such images? I'm not sure there is anything rational about it other than the fact that it helps us grow to accomplish new things when we struggle towards such dreams.

 

[southernhybrid]

Thanks for sharing your complex issues, but what you have described sounds more like a transgender person who feels stuck in the body of the sex that doesn't reflect their brain

Not really "trans" unless you mean "trans-neuter".

It's not a confliction of body parts. The body parts I want and want to feel are not on the menu of "things easily evoked from human biochemistry".

It's the gender fluidity, based primarily on what I've read on sites specifically for such folks that I am having trouble understanding

I can't exactly speak to fluidity. As I have said, I think for the vast majority of "fluid" folks, it's an excuse to feel less constrained and to explore until they find where they really belong.

I'm admittedly not fluid. I'm also quite non-binary.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying that because one's body parts don't match their brains, such as in the case of a transgender person, that it's better or acceptable to simply identify as nonbinary?

No. It's not about body parts matching brains for me. I am not transgender in the typical way. I'm (chemically) a eunuch.

I'm not a woman.

My body naturally produces testosterone in levels higher than I wanted, so I take a medication that makes testosterone do nothing to my body.

I am saying that for those who are exploring, it's better to let them explore without making strict and strong declaration on what they are until they find it, test their feelings on the matter sufficiently, and make some informed decisions on the matter.

Sometimes, like me, they won't find themselves clear of "nonbinary" and sometimes they will.

There is not as of yet, that I know of, any science to help us understand being gender fluid or not having any gender, etc.

I can't give you a pile of research. I can only give you one observation by someone who has approached their own life in a scientific way.

Fluidity is in my estimation a crutch for most, much like most budding gays have a "bisexual" phase. I will grant that some people truly are bisexual. I have quite a number of friends. Even as a eunuch I'm still sexual, but it's something I approach creatively every time, and something I have to decide I want to do.

Nobody should feel inferior if they identify as male or female but don't fill the traditional stereotypical roles associated with that gender.

This is absolutely correct. But it does not change the fact that I don't identify as male or female. I spent the last two years to get permission to be a eunuch.

Obviously, there are ways I could make that happen more readily, but not without being considered as mentally damaged or unfit. It will take me months or even years of taking these pills before I will both have no testicles and also not be seen as a self-harmer.

I have dreams of having an opportunity to be the "house-spouse". This does not make me a woman.

I have dreams of having a career making things that disrupt the very foundations of society. This does not make me a man.

I am, exactly, a eunuch.

I'm pretty sure that's non-binary.

So, if a person is very assertive but also very nurturing, does that mean that person could be nonbinary?

Maybe, but probably not. For most, it's the halfway-out-of-the-egg-house. YMMV.

More I suspect it's not likely for neurotypical folks to ever be nonbinary. Vanishingly so, in fact.

For some I suppose it's "I dislike you assigning me a comorbidity just because I have some traits" or "you will never truly come to understand me by trying to put me in such a box."

What exactly do we even mean when we speak of gender these days? Believe me. I've searched with an open mind but have yet to find any rational answers

Exactly what I meant when I said before: that gender is the model of the ideal self, some image that you hope to reify.

One of the first things most people do is assign it traits THEY consider masculine or feminine, and then they seek to emulate those traits.

Sometimes there's more than one such image and people vacillate between which image they feel like at the moment.

Some people lack an image of such entirely.

When the ideal is the immediate seeming of yourself it can be hard to distinguish the idea that there is an image at all... You might just mistake that pretty of you as a mirror rather than a goal object!

That is in many ways what it means to be cis.

Sometimes the image is built and the builder sees a common thread between what drives their selection of aspects of this "perfect self" and they find that exactly what they like about all these things is their androgyny!

Why do people form such images? I'm not sure there is anything rational about it other than the fact that it helps us grow to accomplish new things when we struggle towards such dreams.

Thanks for helping us understand your situation. I had no idea that you considered yourself a eunuch. I apologize if you feel I was "putting you in a box". That was never my intention. I hope you find a good solution to your personal issues. I may not ever understand how you feel, but I am not judging you.

I had the idea that you identified as female based on some comments you had made on some older threads. Sometimes I do find your posts a bit confusing, but that doesn't mean that I don't respect you for who you are. I was done with this thread but wanted to make sure that you knew I had no ill feelings towards you. From my perspective, you are a rare but interesting individual. Sorry it's caused you what appears to be emotional distress. At least that's the impression I've gotten from some of your comments. None of my comments are meant to be insulting, so please don't take them that way. Sometimes it's hard to express ourselves clearly on a discussion board. It happens to all of us. I appreciate your willingness to try and help us understand your situation.

 

[TomC]

It used to be that if a boy acted feminine, or a girl masculine, that was okay.

You can't seriously believe that.

As a geeky kid, with some vaguely effeminate tendencies, I can tell you flat out. That statement is bullshit.
Tom

 

[thebeave]

It used to be that if a boy acted feminine, or a girl masculine, that was okay.

You can't seriously believe that.

As a geeky kid, with some vaguely effeminate tendencies, I can tell you flat out. That statement is bullshit.
Tom

yep. I think "tomboys" (masculine type girls) were fairly common and accepted without too much derision, but "sissys" (effeminate boys) had to take a lot of crap. I think both are more or less accepted and mainstream today.

 

[Toni]

It used to be that if a boy acted feminine, or a girl masculine, that was okay.

You can't seriously believe that.

As a geeky kid, with some vaguely effeminate tendencies, I can tell you flat out. That statement is bullshit.
Tom

yep. I think "tomboys" (masculine type girls) were fairly common and accepted without too much derision, but "sissys" (effeminate boys) had to take a lot of crap. I think both are more or less accepted and mainstream today.

It’s because masculine is seen as superior to feminine.