Columbia University is colluding with the far-right in its attack on students

[ZiprHead]

Why not a camp for them in the West Bank?

Seriously, why not?

Israel would find a terrorist or terrorist cell that is using the camp for cover, and use that as pretext to slaughter them all.

Israel seems to be killing terrorists at a rate of about 40x the rate they kill civilians. Why do you persist in this nonsense of claiming it's just an excuse to kill Palestinians?

Citation?

 

[Politesse]

WARNING: There is a thread for campus protests. This thread isn't it.

??

What in your opinion is is thread supposed to be about, if not Columbia University's collusion with the far right in its attack on students?

 

[TomC]

WARNING: There is a thread for campus protests. This thread isn't it.

??

What in your opinion is is thread supposed to be about, if not Columbia University's collusion with the far right in its attack on students?

An awful lot of the unprovoked attack thread has spilled over here.
It's an easy mistake to make.
Tom

 

[Politesse]

Why not a camp for them in the West Bank?

Seriously, why not?

Israel would find a terrorist or terrorist cell that is using the camp for cover, and use that as pretext to slaughter them all.

Israel seems to be killing terrorists at a rate of about 40x the rate they kill civilians. Why do you persist in this nonsense of claiming it's just an excuse to kill Palestinians?

That is not the ratio they have targeted, let alone executed. Israel herself claims to have killed two civilians for every "terrorist", and the actual ratio is of course almost certainly worse. Though impossible to estimate with any certainty.

Sources:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/05/middleeast/israel-hamas-military-civilian-ratio-killed-intl-hnk/index.html

Early on in the war, IDF gave clearance to allow 20 civilian deaths for every low-ranking Hamas suspect, intelligence sources said: report

Israeli's military outlined a ratio for the number of civilians who could be killed for every Hamas militant, according to a report.

www.businessinsider.com

Counting casualties in Israel’s war on Gaza

My Good Chat with Sarah Parkinson digs deep into what's really going on with those estimates being cited in the media.

abuaardvark.substack.com

Daily death rate in Gaza higher than any other major 21st Century conflict - Oxfam | Oxfam International

www.oxfam.org

Two of the sources told the outlets that in the first few weeks of the war, the IDF allowed up to 15 or 20 civilian deaths for every low-ranking Hamas militant assassinated.

That number could increase to up to more than 100 civilians if the IDF were targeting a single senior Hamas official, the sources said.

"There was a completely permissive policy regarding the casualties of operations," one source said, according to the report. "A policy so permissive that in my opinion it had an element of revenge."

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

WARNING: There is a thread for campus protests. This thread isn't it.

I thought this was that thread.

 

[TomC]

That is not the ratio they have targeted, let alone executed. Israel herself claims to have killed two civilians for every "terrorist", and the actual ratio is of course almost certainly worse. Though impossible to estimate with any certainty.

Emphasis on "impossible to estimate with any certainty".
However, I have no trouble arguing that Israel hasn't targeted, much less executed any innocent civilians. But there's no way for Israel to distinguish between innocent civilians, human shields, civilian collaborators with Hamas, and active militants and leaders.

But we are rather feeding the derail.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Why not a camp for them in the West Bank?

Seriously, why not?

Israel would find a terrorist or terrorist cell that is using the camp for cover, and use that as pretext to slaughter them all.

Israel seems to be killing terrorists at a rate of about 40x the rate they kill civilians.

That claim is meaningless unless you explain what you mean by rate. I have an odd feeling you are comparing percent of terrorist being killed, ie 40% of Hamas has been killed and percent of civilian deaths, 1% of Gazans have been killed. That would be dubious to say 40x.

Otherwise, Israel would be accomplishing something remarkable as such as of every 100 deaths from IDF efforts, only 2.5 were civilians.

 

[Politesse]

That is not the ratio they have targeted, let alone executed. Israel herself claims to have killed two civilians for every "terrorist", and the actual ratio is of course almost certainly worse. Though impossible to estimate with any certainty.

Emphasis on "impossible to estimate with any certainty".
However, I have no trouble arguing that Israel hasn't targeted, much less executed any innocent civilians. But there's no way for Israel to distinguish between innocent civilians, human shields, civilian collaborators with Hamas, and active militants and leaders.

But we are rather feeding the derail.
Tom

A derail it may be. But it was also disinformation, and I thought it should be corrected. If not even Israel is claiming to kill more combatants than civilians, to say that they have done is a straightforward lie. It's not the first time I've shared these links, and I will continue to do so whenever false claims are being made about civilian deaths in Palestine.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Police remove Gaza encampment at UW-Madison, make multiple arrests

Police removd an encampment of pro-Palestinian protesters at the University of Wisconsin-Madison campus and have taken away several protesters. Several police officers arrived at the encampment on the campus' Library ...

pbswisconsin.org

 

[TomC]

That is not the ratio they have targeted, let alone executed. Israel herself claims to have killed two civilians for every "terrorist", and the actual ratio is of course almost certainly worse. Though impossible to estimate with any certainty.

Emphasis on "impossible to estimate with any certainty".
However, I have no trouble arguing that Israel hasn't targeted, much less executed any innocent civilians. But there's no way for Israel to distinguish between innocent civilians, human shields, civilian collaborators with Hamas, and active militants and leaders.

But we are rather feeding the derail.
Tom

A derail it may be. But it was also disinformation, and I thought it should be corrected. If not even Israel is claiming to kill more combatants than civilians, to say that they have done is a straightforward lie. It's not the first time I've shared these links, and I will continue to do so whenever false claims are being made about civilian deaths in Palestine.

The biases against the region's only multi-ethnic secular democracy you share with your student protesters compatriots looks positively anti-Semitic.

I don't use the word anti-Semitic lightly, generally I despise it. Palestinians are nearly as semitic as the Jews. I think that the outcome of your opinions and proposals will continue the violence that causes huge destruction for generations. For Semitic people as a whole.
Tom

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Students at Brown Just Secured a Vote on Divestment. What Happens Next?

On April 30, protesters disbanded their encampment when the university pledged to vote on divestment from companies affiliated with Israel. This shows a different way of doing things.

www.thenation.com

 

[TomC]

Students at Brown Just Secured a Vote on Divestment. What Happens Next?

On April 30, protesters disbanded their encampment when the university pledged to vote on divestment from companies affiliated with Israel. This shows a different way of doing things.

www.thenation.com

One less reason Israel has to give a crap about US opinions.
Tom
ETA ~ Let me ask this again. What do people think would happen if Israel has no reason to care about US opinions anymore?~

 

[Politesse]

That is not the ratio they have targeted, let alone executed. Israel herself claims to have killed two civilians for every "terrorist", and the actual ratio is of course almost certainly worse. Though impossible to estimate with any certainty.

Emphasis on "impossible to estimate with any certainty".
However, I have no trouble arguing that Israel hasn't targeted, much less executed any innocent civilians. But there's no way for Israel to distinguish between innocent civilians, human shields, civilian collaborators with Hamas, and active militants and leaders.

But we are rather feeding the derail.
Tom

A derail it may be. But it was also disinformation, and I thought it should be corrected. If not even Israel is claiming to kill more combatants than civilians, to say that they have done is a straightforward lie. It's not the first time I've shared these links, and I will continue to do so whenever false claims are being made about civilian deaths in Palestine.

The biases against the region's only multi-ethnic secular democracy you share with your student protesters compatriots looks positively anti-Semitic.

I don't use the word anti-Semitic lightly, generally I despise it. Palestinians are nearly as semitic as the Jews. I think that the outcome of your opinions and proposals will continue the violence that causes huge destruction for generations. For Semitic people as a whole.
Tom

How is it even an anti-Israel bias, let alone "anti-Semitic", to quote that nation's own figures on its own campaign? And no, opposing religious ethnocide does not cause huge destruction. Committing it, that's what causes intergenerational hatreds to fester, as our present crisis in Gaza very obviously demonstrates. Ask any Netanyahu supporter why this campaign is justified, and the October massacre will be the first thing they mention. The Holocaust will be the third or fourth. Acts like this carve wounds into a society that can never be healed.

My ass, you don't use the term anti-Semitic lightly, how often have you typed it this week alone? You certainly try to tar me with it often enough. To the best of my knowledge, I've never in my life said or written a single cross word against the Jewish people, faith, or language. Israel, yes, but they have no right to speak on behalf of all Jews, and to speak of Israel is not to speak of all Jews. The violence the IDF is committing isn't wrong because they are Jews, but because intentional mass killings of civilians are morally abhorrent no matter who is carrying them out. Yes, that includes the actions of Hamas itself, but its crimes are its own, not those of all "Muslims".

I find it especially interesting that you admit to Palestinians being Semitic peoples as well, in this post, given that yesterday you were ranting about them being "violent tribal Muslims" or whatever, quite openly calling for the public persecution of a Semitic ethnoreligious group. Yet you have the cheek to accuse me of anti-Semitism, while typing out overt hate speech against a Semitic people with your other hand? I had assumed you were just ignorant of the connection between the various Levantine peoples, but apparently not.

 

[Politesse]

Students at Brown Just Secured a Vote on Divestment. What Happens Next?

On April 30, protesters disbanded their encampment when the university pledged to vote on divestment from companies affiliated with Israel. This shows a different way of doing things.

www.thenation.com

One less reason Israel has to give a crap about US opinions.
Tom
ETA ~ Let me ask this again. What do people think would happen if Israel has no reason to care about US opinions anymore?~

They would have no recourse except to withdraw from their campaign. They cannot support it without American aid, and the guarantee of our diplomatic support in the UN, in conversation with the EU, and ultimately mutual defense should their attempted provocations succeed in launching a broader regional war. They are a tiny nation, they only get to play big dog because they have powerful friends.

 

[Politesse]

Students at Brown Just Secured a Vote on Divestment. What Happens Next?

On April 30, protesters disbanded their encampment when the university pledged to vote on divestment from companies affiliated with Israel. This shows a different way of doing things.

www.thenation.com

Oh, that's good to hear! One of mine has been directly involved in that one, I've been worrying about her.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That is not the ratio they have targeted, let alone executed. Israel herself claims to have killed two civilians for every "terrorist", and the actual ratio is of course almost certainly worse. Though impossible to estimate with any certainty.

Emphasis on "impossible to estimate with any certainty".
However, I have no trouble arguing that Israel hasn't targeted, much less executed any innocent civilians. But there's no way for Israel to distinguish between innocent civilians, human shields, civilian collaborators with Hamas, and active militants and leaders.

But we are rather feeding the derail.
Tom

A derail it may be. But it was also disinformation, and I thought it should be corrected. If not even Israel is claiming to kill more combatants than civilians, to say that they have done is a straightforward lie. It's not the first time I've shared these links, and I will continue to do so whenever false claims are being made about civilian deaths in Palestine.

The biases against the region's only multi-ethnic secular democracy you share with your student protesters compatriots looks positively anti-Semitic.

I've never seen Politese post anything anti-Semitic at IIDB. We've had a few anti-Semites, actual ones, not people you are unfairly slurring for whatever purpose.

I don't use the word anti-Semitic lightly, generally I despise it.

Actually you did. You are slurring a poster here unfairly.

 

[bilby]

What do people think would happen if Israel has no reason to care about US opinions anymore?

Israel would run out of weapons and ammunition in short order, and be invaded and conquered by her Islamic neighbours.

What, did you imagine that Israel could somehow come to not care about US opinions, while at the same time the US continued to care deeply about defending Israel? That's even more absurd than the usual absurdities surrounding Israel-US relations.

The problem Netenyahu has always had is that he leverages the fact that Israel is under constant existential threat from her Islamic neighbours, to promote the nonsensical fiction that the Gazans represent an existential threat to Israel. Gaza isn't Syria, or Jordan, or Egypt. Hamas are annoying terrorist thugs, not an actual army.

Israel no more faces an existential threat from Hamas, than England faced an existential threat from the IRA. The ongoing massive IDF overreaction to Hamas provocation is doing them no good at all.

 

[TomC]

I find it especially interesting that you admit to Palestinians being Semitic peoples as well, in this post, given that yesterday you were ranting about them being "violent tribal Muslims" or whatever, quite openly calling for the public persecution of a Semitic ethnoreligious group. Yet you have the cheek to accuse me of anti-Semitism, while typing out overt hate speech against a Semitic people with your other hand? I had assumed you were just ignorant of the connection between the various Levantine peoples, but apparently not.

You don't pay much attention to what I post, apparently. I'm confident that I haven't confused anti-Semitic with anti-jewish or anti-zionist since I've posted on IIDB. Unless I was referring to someone else's statement or something.

Ironically, it was some Muslims who explained that to me. I'd never understood it before maybe 2000 or so. I kinda thought all semitic people were ethnic Jews. Nope.

Nevertheless, semitic or not, Palestinians are quite capable of being violent Muslim tribalists. Anti democracy and secular values.
Tom

 

[TomC]

Actually you did. You are slurring a poster here unfairly.

I honestly don't think I did.
Feel free to correct me, because I would consider it a mistake.
Tom

 

[TomC]

I've never seen Politese post anything anti-Semitic at IIDB. We've had a few anti-Semites, actual ones, not people you are unfairly slurring for whatever purpose.

I consider expecting Israel to give in to Palestinian terrorists anti-Semitic because it will continue the death and destruction for yet more generations of both Palestinians and Israelis.
Ya know, Semitic people.
Tom