Columbia University is colluding with the far-right in its attack on students

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I do not necessarily agree with this article, but I think it's important to read it for a perspective and an update on events, even if one does not agree with how or why the events are occurring.

Columbia University is colluding with the far-right in its attack on students | Moira Donegan

In her willingness to unleash state violence against student protestors, Minouche Shafik proved herself to be a willing ally to extremists

www.theguardian.com

This reminds me of a thread I made a while ago about canceling and how conservatives historically have been way more intense in canceling, including actually killing people. In this case, we've heard conservatives claim they are being canceled by universities when usually it means invited and then disinvited. In this case, though, people are being arrested.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What bothers me the most about Israel/Gaza are the steadfast opinions about the conditions in Israel/Gaza from people that 1) live thousands of miles from it 2) never been there. For a campus, I think there are opportunities to communicate what is happening, the issues with perception from afar, providing narratives to a story that really is two sided and no where near black and white.

This is much a people conflict as it is an information conflict. There is a lot that can be taught about this, and how to grow from it, instead of merely make useless gestures.

 

[ZiprHead]

I'm not quite sure of what happened at Columbia. Were the students just sitting/standing or were they blocking traffic/egress?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

They were encamped on a lawn.

I can't imagine my school would have allowed people to be camping out on the Quad indefinitely either.

 

[laughing dog]

I'm not quite sure of what happened at Columbia. Were the students just sitting/standing or were they blocking traffic/egress?

Unless they were destroying property or preventing free speech or disrupting classes, I'd lean on the side of over-reaction by the administration of Columbia University.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'm not quite sure of what happened at Columbia. Were the students just sitting/standing or were they blocking traffic/egress?

Unless they were destroying property or preventing free speech or disrupting classes, I'd lean on the side of over-reaction by the administration of Columbia University.

I'd say they acted as such to clear the area. Not to have these people go to prison. I'm assuming they asked before calling the cops. Campuses are a place to learn, not to pretend you are making a difference.

 

[laughing dog]

I'm not quite sure of what happened at Columbia. Were the students just sitting/standing or were they blocking traffic/egress?

Unless they were destroying property or preventing free speech or disrupting classes, I'd lean on the side of over-reaction by the administration of Columbia University.

I'd say they acted as such to clear the area. Not to have these people go to prison. I'm assuming they asked before calling the cops. Campuses are a place to learn, not to pretend you are making a difference.

Universities are a place of learning. But learning may extend beyond the scope of a narrow academic area. And I seriously I doubt the serious protesters were pretending anything - they feel they are trying to make a difference.

I think the linked article makes a good point about this just as much (if not more) PR driven choice on the part of the administration of Columbia as it was anything else. That NYC has a relatively large Jewish population and the President is an Arab adds to the PR driven choice, in my opinion.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'm not quite sure of what happened at Columbia. Were the students just sitting/standing or were they blocking traffic/egress?

Unless they were destroying property or preventing free speech or disrupting classes, I'd lean on the side of over-reaction by the administration of Columbia University.

I'd say they acted as such to clear the area. Not to have these people go to prison. I'm assuming they asked before calling the cops. Campuses are a place to learn, not to pretend you are making a difference.

Universities are a place of learning. But learning may extend beyond the scope of a narrow academic area. And I seriously I doubt the serious protesters were pretending anything - they feel they are trying to make a difference.

Of course, learning how to learn and observe is another one of those things being taught. Sitting in a tent? Too many people have one dimensional Israel/Gaza views. One goes to college to learn how to see things in 2D and 3D views.

I think the linked article makes a good point about this just as much (if not more) PR driven choice on the part of the administration of Columbia as it was anything else. That NYC has a relatively large Jewish population and the President is an Arab adds to the PR driven choice, in my opinion.

Again, I went to a college not too far north of Columbia and was always a bit jealous because they were around 15 to 20 minutes closer to D/town than I was on the 1/9. But I can't imagine that at my school, students would have been allowed to tent out on the Quad for any extended period of time.

Of the little insight I have for Columbia, they aren't some wide open, anything goes anarchy. There are expectations and rules. They will be followed.

Maybe this is PR, or maybe this was the easiest way to end the siege of a lawn. Christ... I didn't have time for that sort of crap when I was in college.

 

[laughing dog]

I'm not quite sure of what happened at Columbia. Were the students just sitting/standing or were they blocking traffic/egress?

Unless they were destroying property or preventing free speech or disrupting classes, I'd lean on the side of over-reaction by the administration of Columbia University.

I'd say they acted as such to clear the area. Not to have these people go to prison. I'm assuming they asked before calling the cops. Campuses are a place to learn, not to pretend you are making a difference.

Universities are a place of learning. But learning may extend beyond the scope of a narrow academic area. And I seriously I doubt the serious protesters were pretending anything - they feel they are trying to make a difference.

Of course, learning how to learn and observe is another one of those things being taught. Sitting in a tent? Too many people have one dimensional Israel/Gaza views. One goes to college to learn how to see things in 2D and 3D views.

I think the linked article makes a good point about this just as much (if not more) PR driven choice on the part of the administration of Columbia as it was anything else. That NYC has a relatively large Jewish population and the President is an Arab adds to the PR driven choice, in my opinion.

Again, I went to a college not too far north of Columbia and was always a bit jealous because they were around 15 to 20 minutes closer to D/town than I was on the 1/9. But I can't imagine that at my school, students would have been allowed to tent out on the Quad for any extended period of time.

Of the little insight I have for Columbia, they aren't some wide open, anything goes anarchy. There are expectations and rules. They will be followed.

Maybe this is PR, or maybe this was the easiest way to end the siege of a lawn. Christ... I didn't have time for that sort of crap when I was in college.

`'Siege of the lawn" makes it seem even more inconsequential than it was. Describing this protest as wide open anything goes anarchy is going a bit far. I saw no reports of violence on the part of protesters or destruction of property or even obstruction of campus activity other than circumnavigating the protest.

 

[Derec]

Grauniad just being Grauniad. Arresting trespassers who refuse to leave is not "colluding with the right wing".

Ilhan Omar's daughter was among the arrested. It seems antisemitism runs in the family.

This reminds me of a thread I made a while ago about canceling and how conservatives historically have been way more intense in canceling, including actually killing people. In this case, we've heard conservatives claim they are being canceled by universities when usually it means invited and then disinvited.

Disinviting speakers because they are right of center (or even only to the right of the far-left positions fashionable in academia) should not be practiced by universities.

In this case, though, people are being arrested.

Are you really comparing invited speakers wanting to give a speech to a bunch of idiots trespassing and refusing to leave? If these were anti-abortion activists rather than anti-Israel activists, would you be supportive of them too?

P.S.: That same author praised the anti-Israel idiot who set himself on fire a couple of months ago.

 

[Derec]

Universities are a place of learning. But learning may extend beyond the scope of a narrow academic area.

As I asked Don: would you consider it "learning beyond the scope of a narrow academic area" if the occupation was against abortion for example? Or do only left-wing causes (like being useful idiots for Hamas) count?

And I seriously I doubt the serious protesters were pretending anything - they feel they are trying to make a difference.

What kind of "difference" though? Reminds me of this video:


There is also a live feed on Youtube where right now some annoying chick in an Arafat scarf is yelling unintelligibly. Is that what parents are spending $70k a year in tuition for?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

One of the groups who helped to set up the encampment was Jewish Voice for Peace which is an anti-zionist Jewish group.

So basically Derec's claims of anti-semitism and the immature caricatures go to....

Reductio ad absurdum.

 

[Derec]

One of the groups who helped to set up the encampment was Jewish Voice for Peace which is an anti-zionist Jewish group.

So basically Derec's claims of anti-semitism and the immature caricatures go to....

Reductio ad absurdum.

So-called "Jewish Voice for Peace" is a self-hating extremist group. Noam Chomsky of all people is on its board for fuck's sake. It's not proving anything. It's not vert different than the extremist Americans who think that US is the worst country in the world.

Anti-Israel JVP recites Kaddish for terrorists - opinion

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

...and there you have it, folks, the self-hating Jews trope.

When Jews disagree with your ideology, they are self-hating Jews, but when they agree, their opponents are anti-semitic.

Yeah, that's the ticket!

 

[Derec]

How is JVP different than anti-American Americans or anti-German Germans?

They are yelling "from the river to the sea" right now. I.e. they want to destroy the State of Israel. Trope or not, how is JVP supporting this shit not self-hating?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

How is JVP different than anti-American Americans or anti-German Germans?

They are yelling "from the river to the sea" right now. I.e. they want to destroy the State of Israel. Trope or not, how is JVP supporting this shit not self-hating?

Hans and Sophie Scholl were not self-hating Germans.

Redoing a govt or making 2 is not anti-semitic either.

Of course, some people might use the phrase to mean something else, but not JVP.

 

[laughing dog]

How is JVP different than anti-American Americans or anti-German Germans?

They are yelling "from the river to the sea" right now. I.e. they want to destroy the State of Israel. Trope or not, how is JVP supporting this shit not self-hating?

Because anti-Israel is not the same as anti- Jewish.

 

[laughing dog]

Universities are a place of learning. But learning may extend beyond the scope of a narrow academic area.

As I asked Don: would you consider it "learning beyond the scope of a narrow academic area" if the occupation was against abortion for example?

Yes.

 

[ZiprHead]

Ilhan Omar's daughter was among the arrested. It seems antisemitism runs in the family.

 

[Derec]

People at the anti-Israel rally at Columbia calling for intifada (organized campaign of terrorism and violence) and one chick is even yelling that they are all Hamas.