Come to the Holiday Party! Except for White People

[southernhybrid]

No Asians?
Mexicans?
Irish?

As 60ish, I'm too young to remember before Irish people were white. But my parents, from the mid-1920s, weren't. They remember signs in shop windows:
No niggers
No Jews
No Irish
No dogs
From the 30s and early 40s. Apparently, WWII made Irish people officially white.
Tom

Knowing that some of my background is Irish, I went looking for example of how the Irish were treated earlier in the 20th Century. I saw a photo of a sign on the outside of a business in Boston that read, "No dogs. No Blacks. No Irish". I told one of my friends, that I was pleased to be associated with two of my favorite groups of people. Okay. I'm not just Irish. I have some other European immigrants in my background, but the worst were the British. I was told they were pirates and after reading the book, "Poor White Trash", I'm sure that my British ancestors were poor white trash.

And, btw, "Blazing Saddles" is one of the best satirical comedies ever made. I watch it at least once a year and it still makes me laugh. Considering how sensitive people are these days, I doubt Mel Brooks would get away with making it, since it contains, the N word many times. Satire must not be well understood by the contemporary overly sensitive Americans. What were we talking about.....

If you haven't already, you should watch some youtube reaction videos where younger folks are watching Blazing Saddles. Many seem to be genuinely aghast with the language and jokes to the point where they can't focus and see the humor or satire in it. Like they're watching The Exorcist or something. Maybe you had to grow up in the era of All in the Family or Sanford and Son (one of my all time favorite shows) to enjoy the humor. Back then, Fred Sanford (and George Jefferson, IIRC) used the N-word occassionally on broadcast TV, which is something unthinkable today.

I think the series "The Neighborhood" is similar to "All in the Family" but the racist person is the Black guy who freaks out over his new white neighbor moving in to his all black neighborhood. Eventually, they get along, but the Black star is very critical of his new white neighbor. The two women become close friends etc. I think it's pretty funny and it's one of the few recent comedies that I know of, that remind me of some of the ones from my generation. Archie Bunker was the racist and his kids didn't like his attitude. That reminded me of the time my own father, who rarely acted racist, referred to MLK in a way that sounded racist to me as a teenager, who was always a young activist for social justice.
Anyway, I don't watch new movies and I rarely watch new tv shows, so when I find one that I like, it's rare.

 

[southernhybrid]

Did you see the beave's recent reply? He claims that he's watched videos of younger people watching "Blazing Saddles" and being horrified by the language etc. That's my point. I didn't live 100 years ago and sure people likely reacted to all sorts of crazy things, but I've never seen so much overly sensitive reactions to some of the movies and things that happened in my lifetime, until recently. For fuck's sake, when TCM recently played "Blazing Saddles", they had to put up a warning that some of the language might be offensive. That's what I'm talking about. Maybe it's only because it's a comedy, but I hate that so many people have become so childish when it comes to things like this.

Ah, yes, to avoid childishness, I watch many Mel Brooks movies. Keeps me mature, you know.
*fart*

but, but but.....You're not young anymore, so you don't count.

 

[ZiprHead]

There are numerous reaction videos on YouTube of black people watching Blazing Saddles, I don't think I've ever seen one where the watchers got offended.

 

[TomC]

That reminded me of the time my own father, who rarely acted racist, referred to MLK in a way that sounded racist to me as a teenager

I had a few such exchanges with my dad. I remember him once complaining about Muhammad Ali refusing the draft and going to jail instead. Called him a coward, and commented "If those black people want to be regular folks they should be fighting for our country like I did."
I quoted Ali, " Why would I go to Viet nam and kill Vietnamese people? No Viet Cong ever called me nigger!"
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

No Asians?
Mexicans?
Irish?

As 60ish, I'm too young to remember before Irish people were white. But my parents, from the mid-1920s, weren't. They remember signs in shop windows:
No niggers
No Jews
No Irish
No dogs
From the 30s and early 40s. Apparently, WWII made Irish people officially white.
Tom

Knowing that some of my background is Irish, I went looking for example of how the Irish were treated earlier in the 20th Century. I saw a photo of a sign on the outside of a business in Boston that read, "No dogs. No Blacks. No Irish". I told one of my friends, that I was pleased to be associated with two of my favorite groups of people. Okay. I'm not just Irish. I have some other European immigrants in my background, but the worst were the British. I was told they were pirates and after reading the book, "Poor White Trash", I'm sure that my British ancestors were poor white trash.

And, btw, "Blazing Saddles" is one of the best satirical comedies ever made. I watch it at least once a year and it still makes me laugh. Considering how sensitive people are these days, I doubt Mel Brooks would get away with making it, since it contains, the N word many times. Satire must not be well understood by the contemporary overly sensitive Americans. What were we talking about.....

If you haven't already, you should watch some youtube reaction videos where younger folks are watching Blazing Saddles. Many seem to be genuinely aghast with the language and jokes to the point where they can't focus and see the humor or satire in it.

Yeah, watch reaction videos on social media to gauge how people, in general, feel about media. Not going to get any noise on that meter.

Maybe you had to grow up in the era of All in the Family or Sanford and Son (one of my all time favorite shows) to enjoy the humor. Back then, Fred Sanford (and George Jefferson, IIRC) used the N-word occassionally on broadcast TV, which is something unthinkable today.

To be fair, not many black oriented programs these days. No The Jeffersons or Sanford and Son or Good Times. I'm not particularly researched on programming these days, but when was the last major network black family themed program on Broadcast television? Have there been many since Roc, Fresh Prince? That said, the language wasn't similar, but the content raised some of the same issues on race.

It is also the oddest of paradoxes, people saying television was racier back then... while some of the same people complain about how racy programming is today.

 

[thebeave]

There are numerous reaction videos on YouTube of black people watching Blazing Saddles, I don't think I've ever seen one where the watchers got offended.

I didn't use the word "offended". I said "agasht" (definition: "filled with horror or shock."). I don't recall anyone being so offended that they turned it off or gave it a thumbs down. I think once they got past the initial shock of the words and jokes they lightened up a bit and were able to appreciate it for what it was.

 

[Jarhyn]

I probably heard about Mr. Beast on Bill Maher, who despite not personally liking these days, I still enjoy watching his show and listening to some of the diverse viewpoints which don't always agree with my own. I think it's important to listen and read the opinions of those who see things from a different perspective.

Anyway..I wanted to add the recent article that was written by John McWhorter that I had been thinking about in an earlier post. I take his views seriously because I think he understands what it's like being Black more than the white people who sometimes criticize his viewpoints. So, I'll give the article for anyone interested in reading his viewpoint.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/13/...e_code=1.G00._V0g.5qB7Cp0tmP9q&smid=url-share

In the congressional hearing, the presidents made clear that Jewish students should be protected when hate speech is “directed and severe, pervasive” (in the words of Ms. Magill) or when the speech “becomes conduct” (Claudine Gay of Harvard).
But the tacit idea is that when it comes to issues related to race — and, specifically, Black students — then free speech considerations become an abstraction. Where Black students are concerned, we are to forget whether the offense is directed, as even the indirect is treated as evil; we are to forget the difference between speech and conduct, as mere utterance is grounds for aggrieved condemnation.
It seems to me that, in debates over free speech, Jews are seen in some quarters as white and therefore need no protection from outright hostility. But racism is America’s original sin, and thus we are to treat all and any intimation of it on university campuses as a kind of kryptonite, even if that means treating Black students as pathological cases rather than human beings with basic resilience who understand proportion and degree.

This is certainly a double standard imposed on Jewish students, as my colleagues Bret Stephens and David French, among others, have argued. However, we must also consider the imposition of this double standard upon young Black people. To assume they can’t handle anything unpleasant infantilizes bright, serious students preparing for life in the real world.
Both expectations are offenses to human dignity, and universities must seek a middle ground. The answer is neither the crudeness of allowing all speech to pass as “free” nor the clamping down on any utterance that rubs a student the wrong way.

Sometimes Black students must be protected not only from words, but words that sound like other words. In 2020, Greg Patton was suspended from teaching a class in communications at the University of Southern California. The reason was that one of his lectures included noting that in Mandarin, a hesitation term is “nèi ge,” which means “that …” and has nothing to do, of course, with the N-word. Several Black students said they felt injured by experiencing this word in the class.​

I have no idea why the above showed up in large print.


There's some more interesting points that he makes to back up his opinion. I personally think it's good to be strong enough to deal with insults. In fact, as a female who has had to deal with and learned to stand up to obnoxious, arrogant male doctors when I was working, as well as plenty of sexist speech from others, I wish that all young people, regardless of race or gender etc, would learn to stand up for themselves and not allow others to impact their self esteem. I think that's at least part of what the opinion piece is promoting.

Having worked in a Chinese owned medical device company office with many Chinese immigrants, I can attest that Nei Ge is an extremely common thing to hear.

To the point where I would hear it in rapid fire like "... Nei Ge Nei Ge Nei Ge Nei Ge..."

Not only is it a common "hesitation" phrase, but it is often heavily repeated. It's not something you can avoid in Mandarin Chinese.

 

[Gospel]

Sounds like Patton failed to communicate in communication class.

 

[TomC]

Sounds like Patton failed to communicate in communication class.

I can't tell if you're being snarky or not.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

There are numerous reaction videos on YouTube of black people watching Blazing Saddles, I don't think I've ever seen one where the watchers got offended.

I didn't use the word "offended". I said "agasht" (definition: "filled with horror or shock."). I don't recall anyone being so offended that they turned it off or gave it a thumbs down. I think once they got past the initial shock of the words and jokes they lightened up a bit and were able to appreciate it for what it was.

Then why the fuck are you bringing it up?!

 

[ZiprHead]

There are numerous reaction videos on YouTube of black people watching Blazing Saddles, I don't think I've ever seen one where the watchers got offended.

I didn't use the word "offended". I said "agasht" (definition: "filled with horror or shock."). I don't recall anyone being so offended that they turned it off or gave it a thumbs down. I think once they got past the initial shock of the words and jokes they lightened up a bit and were able to appreciate it for what it was.

Well, I've never seen that too.

 

[Gospel]

Sounds like Patton failed to communicate in communication class.

I can't tell if you're being snarky or not.
Tom

Irony. I was attempting to be funny by pointing out the irony Tom.