Consciousness

[fromderinside]

Nor is that criterion necessary to make the point in this case. A verbal report coincident with indications of oxygen uptake in critical structures is sufficient to permit both chemical and electrical recording in future studies. When the dogs have been given the scent the end is near at hand.

 

[DBT]

Right on cue, there's the mantra. You deliberately ignore the fact of a sequence of cognitive events beginning with inputs via sensory organs...which is not a guess, or a belief, or speculation but a fact of physics and biological architecture, which makes not only the issue of when a decision becomes conscious or when a button is pressed because the prior processing is a necessity and a fact.

It is this that makes your claims laughable.....but you persist with your fallacies regardless.

I'm ignoring nothing.

You are ignoring the only evidence we have concerning the will.

The will is not explained in any way in any of your experiments. There is simply a prejudice that exists concerning it.

You will your arm to move and it does.

You can run this experiment as many times as you choose.

Hilarious, even while claiming to ignore nothing you demonstrates that you ignore all research, all experiments and whatever researchers happen to say about their work, which actually deals with brain agency, movement intention and motor actions. Not to mention you are still ignoring the physics of cognition and motor action when you invoke autonomy of consciousness, a completely discredited notion....to put it gently.

Quote;
''When it comes to the human brain, even the simplest of acts can be counter-intuitive and deceptively complicated. For example, try stretching your arm.

Nerves in the limb send messages back to your brain, but the subjective experience you have of stretching isn't due to these signals. The feeling that you willed your arm into motion, and the realisation that you moved it at all, are both the result of an area at the back of your brain called the posterior parietal cortex. This region helped to produce the intention to move, and predicted what the movement would feel like, all before you twitched a single muscle.

Michel Desmurget and a team of French neuroscientists arrived at this conclusion by stimulating the brains of seven people with electrodes, while they underwent brain surgery under local anaesthetic. When Desmurget stimulated the parietal cortex, the patients felt a strong desire to move their arms, hands, feet or lips, although they never actually did. Stronger currents cast a powerful illusion, convincing the patients that they had actually moved, even though recordings of electrical activity in their muscles said otherwise.

 

[untermensche]

Hilarious, even while claiming to ignore nothing you demonstrates that you ignore all research, all experiments and whatever researchers happen to say about their work, which actually deals with brain agency, movement intention and motor actions. Not to mention you are still ignoring the physics of cognition and motor action when you invoke autonomy of consciousness, a completely discredited notion....to put it gently.

There is NO research that objectively examines the human will.

Because no researcher has a clue what the human will is, objectively.

These worthless studies you cling to like a member of a religious cult are nothing but a study of the timing of human guesses, with a bunch of prejudices thrown over it.

Activity that can't be explained arises in a manner that is not understood.

Only a huge fool or a deluded religious adherent thinks the made up arbitrary stories about this activity are worth anything.

And artificially stimulating the brain tells us NOTHING about normal brain activity without the artificial stimulation.

And we know there is an effect ONLY because of subjective reports, not because of any understanding of brain activity.

 

[DBT]

The truth according to the mantra of Mr Untermensche, which continually and habitually ignores everything to the contrary, physics, brain architecture and function and what is becoming increasingly clear; that the brain is responsible for initiating motor response and the conscious experience of you performing that action for whatever reason, all of which has been separated into constituent functions and brain regions, but Mr Untermensche cannot accept because he knows better even while claiming nobody knows anything.

''Consciousness is a property of the human brain, a highly evolved system. It therefore must have a useful function to perform. Crick and Koch (1998) assume that the function of the neuronal correlate of consciousness is to produce the best current interpretation of the environment---in the light of past experiences---and to make it available, for a sufficient time, to the parts of the brain which contemplate, plan and execute voluntary motor outputs (including language). This needs to be contrasted with the on-line systems that bypass consciousness but that can generate stereotyped behaviors''

''Now if the function of the neuronal correlate of consciousness is to produce the best current interpretation of the environment---in the light of past experiences---and to make it available, for a sufficient time, to the parts of the brain which contemplate, plan and execute voluntary motor outputs'' - Crick and Koch - the 'best current interpretation of the environment'' must necessarily be based on information received from the environment via the sensory organs, and the process of ''interpretation'' is achieved through correlation of the available information ''in the light of past experiences'

 

[untermensche]

We looked at your worthless studies.

Nothing but the timing of guesses. No understanding of a conscious decision.

As bad as it gets.

That you still defend it is merely a sign of how lost you are.

 

[DBT]

Woo, hoo, there it is, right on cue; the Mantra.

 

[untermensche]

Woo, hoo, there it is, right on cue; the Mantra.

As you say the same worthless thing for the hundredth time.

You are really incapable of addressing any of this.

All you are capable of doing is repeating ideas you don't comprehend.

 

[fromderinside]

Woo, hoo, there it is, right on cue; the Mantra.

As you say the same worthless thing for the hundredth time.

You are really incapable of addressing any of this.

All you are capable of doing is repeating ideas you don't comprehend.

Toot. Toot.

Sorry little guy, your hand waving isn't really worth translating.

 

[untermensche]

As you say the same worthless thing for the hundredth time.

You are really incapable of addressing any of this.

All you are capable of doing is repeating ideas you don't comprehend.

Toot. Toot.

Sorry little guy, your hand waving isn't really worth translating.

You are in his boat.

Trying to claim that the timing of guesses and looking at gross activity that is not understood and how it arose is not understood passes for an understanding of a conscious movement.

But of course many bad understandings have had their blind devotees.

 

[fromderinside]

So, for you, the hare never caught the turtle .....

 

[DBT]

Woo, hoo, there it is, right on cue; the Mantra.

As you say the same worthless thing for the hundredth time.

You are really incapable of addressing any of this.

All you are capable of doing is repeating ideas you don't comprehend.

Sour grapes.

 

[DBT]

Toot. Toot.

Sorry little guy, your hand waving isn't really worth translating.

Trying to claim that the timing of guesses and looking at gross activity that is not understood and how it arose is not understood passes for an understanding of a conscious movement.

Let's pretend the timing is wrong and cannot be tested due to subjectivity, this makes not the slightest difference to your claim. Your notion of autonomy of consciousness is still without merit based on the physics of cognition....the necessity of a sequence of events beginning with inputs, propagation, processing, etc, prior to readiness potential and conscious representation of the world and self; you and whatever you happen to think and whatever you happen to do.

You can't escape the fact of this sequence, and it is this that destroys your claims. You never had a case to argue.

 

[untermensche]

As you say the same worthless thing for the hundredth time.

You are really incapable of addressing any of this.

All you are capable of doing is repeating ideas you don't comprehend.

Sour grapes.

A clear fact.

You have no ideas of your own. No arguments beyond your superiors told you it is so.

 

[untermensche]

Trying to claim that the timing of guesses and looking at gross activity that is not understood and how it arose is not understood passes for an understanding of a conscious movement.

Let's pretend the timing is wrong and cannot be tested due to subjectivity, this makes not the slightest difference to your claim. Your notion of autonomy of consciousness is still without merit based on the physics of cognition....the necessity of a sequence of events beginning with inputs, propagation, processing, etc, prior to readiness potential and conscious representation of the world and self; you and whatever you happen to think and whatever you happen to do.

You can't escape the fact of this sequence, and it is this that destroys your claims. You never had a case to argue.

A "module" of the brain, "consciousness", can behave as freely as the entire brain.

It has the same potential for freedom.

All that is required is that a specific kind of "thought", the kind that can move the arm, be able to generate directed energy.

For the hundredth time.

This is not a valid criticism of anything.

 

[DBT]

Not a fact at all, Mr Untermensche, just sour grapes from someone who has no case to argue. The fact being, these so called ''superiors' you refer are scientists who are qualified to run experiments in relation to brain structures and functions and analyze their results.

 

[untermensche]

Not a fact at all, Mr Untermensche, just sour grapes from someone who has no case to argue. The fact being, these so called ''superiors' you refer are scientists who are qualified to run experiments in relation to brain structures and functions and analyze their results.

They are humans with an agenda. With prejudices.

Nothing more.

 

[DBT]

Let's pretend the timing is wrong and cannot be tested due to subjectivity, this makes not the slightest difference to your claim. Your notion of autonomy of consciousness is still without merit based on the physics of cognition....the necessity of a sequence of events beginning with inputs, propagation, processing, etc, prior to readiness potential and conscious representation of the world and self; you and whatever you happen to think and whatever you happen to do.

You can't escape the fact of this sequence, and it is this that destroys your claims. You never had a case to argue.

A "module" of the brain, "consciousness", can behave as freely as the entire brain.

It has the same potential for freedom.

All that is required is that a specific kind of "thought", the kind that can move the arm, be able to generate directed energy.

For the hundredth time.

This is not a valid criticism of anything.

These are your own claims. Claims you cannot substantiate. Claims you make even while claiming that nobody knows anything about consciousness....except you apparently. You claim to know about autonomy of consciousness, yet have no evidence to support it. Or any ability to explain how it may work. You just repeat ''I can lift my arm at will'' - meanwhile ignoring evidence that shows multiple systems being responsible for motor actions and conscious sense of agency, readiness potential, report, etc. Which you studiously ignore.

- - - Updated - - -

Not a fact at all, Mr Untermensche, just sour grapes from someone who has no case to argue. The fact being, these so called ''superiors' you refer are scientists who are qualified to run experiments in relation to brain structures and functions and analyze their results.

They are humans with an agenda. With prejudices.

Nothing more.

Hilarious, a world full of scientists seeking to deceive not only themselves but each other and the world at large......

 

[untermensche]

A "module" of the brain, "consciousness", can behave as freely as the entire brain.

It has the same potential for freedom.

All that is required is that a specific kind of "thought", the kind that can move the arm, be able to generate directed energy.

For the hundredth time.

This is not a valid criticism of anything.

These are your own claims. Claims you cannot substantiate. Claims you make even while claiming that nobody knows anything about consciousness....except you apparently. You claim to know about autonomy of consciousness, yet have no evidence to support it. Or any ability to explain how it may work. You just repeat ''I can lift my arm at will'' - meanwhile ignoring evidence that shows multiple systems being responsible for motor actions and conscious sense of agency, readiness potential, report, etc. Which you studiously ignore.

These are not claims they are logical arguments and clear observations.

Arguments you cannot refute.

Hilarious, a world full of scientists seeking to deceive not only themselves but each other and the world at large......

First of all it is a handful of people.

And it's not anything that matters in the real world. That is why it can go on.

Nobody anywhere behaves as if the claims you make are true.

Criminals are punished for their crimes. THEIR crimes. Punished as if THEY have responsibility and willed it to happen.

The world screams as loud as it can that your ideas are irrelevant and nobody believes them.

 

[fromderinside]

All logical arguments are falsifiable. That's the nature of the beast.

Yes a hand full in the Netherlands, Germany, the US east, west, north, and south hands, in GB, in China, Russia, Japan, Australia. OMG, hand fulls everywhere.

Chatter exists on effects on law and law enforcement, on human nature,. Eyup no effect on anything that matters in the world. Not.

Accused are overly punished or not punished at all because of uncertainty about those charged and the crimes committed.

So the research is vital to minimizing error and maximizing sanctions to only those actually responsible for crimes.

Oh, I caused you to have a hair ball. Sorry.

 

[untermensche]

All logical arguments are falsifiable. That's the nature of the beast.

Yes a hand full in the Netherlands, Germany, the US east, west, north, and south hands, in GB, in China, Russia, Japan, Australia. OMG, hand fulls everywhere.

Chatter exists on effects on law and law enforcement, on human nature,. Eyup no effect on anything that matters in the world. Not.

Accused are overly punished or not punished at all because of uncertainty about those charged and the crimes committed.

So the research is vital to minimizing error and maximizing sanctions to only those actually responsible for crimes.

Oh, I caused you to have a hair ball. Sorry.

You are so full of shit.

Nobody believes this. Except a handful of people who's careers depend on it.

The world operates as if humans have free will.