Split Conservatives Feel Attacked (was Special Counsel 2)

[Rhea]

But I would not underestimate the power of media - they are being told by their fellow conservtives that liberals are attacking them. They are rarely told that by liberals (meaning they are rarely attacked), but they believe it is happening because conservatives are telling them it’s happening.

 

[Elixir]

Where I’ll try to understand their jhuman need to be heard, and try to DISCUSS with them a larger context.

I have tried. It’s difficult to part amicably with someone pretending to ”discuss” when all they can do is recite the tidal wave of lies they have memorized.
“There is a mountain of evidence the election was stolen!”
What are ya s’posed to say?
“Joe Biden eats babies”
Same deal. You can implore them to read, or otherwise diversify their info sources, but they think anyone not pandering to their confirmation bias is lying. Sad as hell, really.
OTOH, I can talk to them about horse breeding or hay farming, so I do that; rather than talk about their areas of ignorance, I can let them disabuse me of mine.

 

[CosmicJellyfish]

I absolutely do NOT ignore the existential threat of ANY extremists—right or left.

Reminds me of Nazi Germany, when the Nazis were like "we're going to liquidate you, Jews" and Jews were like "please don't do that". Both sides were equally mean and divisive!

 

[laughing dog]

But I would not underestimate the power of media - they are being told by their fellow conservtives that liberals are attacking them. They are rarely told that by liberals (meaning they are rarely attacked), but they believe it is happening because conservatives are telling them it’s happening.

Anyone remember HRC and “deplorables”? Rightly or wrongly, that still sticks in their craw. It personified the perception that liberals/“the elite” attack them.

IMO this goes deeper than the media. Diversity, transgender issues, and gay marriage are but three issues where many conservatives feel their way of life is attacked.

BTW, I have the greatest respect and admiration for Rhea and many others in this thread.

 

[laughing dog]

Liberals are pretty well represented on this forum.

?!?!?!

Liberals have pretty much gotten rid of everyone else.
Tom

An anti-Trump conservative’s observation inadevertly helps show Toni’s point.

 

[CosmicJellyfish]

Anyone remember HRC and “deplorables”? Rightly or wrongly, that still sticks in their craw. It personified the perception that liberals/“the elite” attack them.

And? Whatever the center and left are guilty of, the right is guilty of far worse.

snowflakes
not "real Americans"
groomers
pedophiles
baby killers
infanticide
cannibals
drink the blood of children
satanic
demonic
beta males
low-T
soy boys
gay liberal agenda
pro-crime
they're replacing whites with poor dirty brown people
white genocide
racist against white people

What is the point of this exercise? Can liberals be mean? Sure. Right-wingers are meaner. Where does that leave us?

IMO this goes deeper than the media. Diversity, transgender issues, and gay marriage are but three issues where many conservatives feel their way of life is attacked.

Well, if we follow the right's lead, the appropriate response to this is "suck it up, buttercup" and "fuck your feelings".

 

[TomC]

Liberals are pretty well represented on this forum.

?!?!?!

Liberals have pretty much gotten rid of everyone else.
Tom

An anti-Trump conservative’s observation inadevertly helps show Toni’s point.

Toni's point being:

I’m sorry that you(Rhea) do not find it worth your while to consider points of view other than your own.

Toni is complaining about being attacked on IIDB. That's a total load of crap. I'd go into details but I've learned better.
Tom

 

[Toni]

Anyone remember HRC and “deplorables”? Rightly or wrongly, that still sticks in their craw. It personified the perception that liberals/“the elite” attack them.

And? Whatever the center and left are guilty of, the right is guilty of far worse.

snowflakes
not "real Americans"
groomers
pedophiles
baby killers
infanticide
cannibals
drink the blood of children
satanic
demonic
beta males
low-T
soy boys
gay liberal agenda
pro-crime
they're replacing whites with poor dirty brown people
white genocide
racist against white people

What is the point of this exercise? Can liberals be mean? Sure. Right-wingers are meaner. Where does that leave us?

IMO this goes deeper than the media. Diversity, transgender issues, and gay marriage are but three issues where many conservatives feel their way of life is attacked.

Well, if we follow the right's lead, the appropriate response to this is "suck it up, buttercup" and "fuck your feelings".

The point was that there is much common ground. That’s it. Full stop.

Sorry if everyone has lost their mind. Oh, the horrors of being on par with those deplorables on any level!

Of course finding common ground would mean abandoning schoolyard grudges and name calling.

 

[laughing dog]

Liberals are pretty well represented on this forum.

?!?!?!

Liberals have pretty much gotten rid of everyone else.
Tom

An anti-Trump conservative’s observation inadevertly helps show Toni’s point.

Toni's point being:

I’m sorry that you(Rhea) do not find it worth your while to consider points of view other than your own.

Toni is complaining about being attacked on IIDB. That's a total load of crap. I'd go into details but I've learned better.
Tom

While there is no evidence to support your view, your response is more evidence in support of the feelings of conservatives.

 

[laughing dog]

The point was that there is much common ground. That’s it. Full stop.

Sorry if everyone has lost their mind. Oh, the horrors of being on par with those deplorable son any level!

Of course finding common ground would mean abandoning schoolyard grudges and name calling.

My dear, I lost my mind years ago. I feel like little Bo Peep much of the time.

 

[CosmicJellyfish]

Anyone remember HRC and “deplorables”? Rightly or wrongly, that still sticks in their craw. It personified the perception that liberals/“the elite” attack them.

And? Whatever the center and left are guilty of, the right is guilty of far worse.

snowflakes
not "real Americans"
groomers
pedophiles
baby killers
infanticide
cannibals
drink the blood of children
satanic
demonic
beta males
low-T
soy boys
gay liberal agenda
pro-crime
they're replacing whites with poor dirty brown people
white genocide
racist against white people

What is the point of this exercise? Can liberals be mean? Sure. Right-wingers are meaner. Where does that leave us?

IMO this goes deeper than the media. Diversity, transgender issues, and gay marriage are but three issues where many conservatives feel their way of life is attacked.

Well, if we follow the right's lead, the appropriate response to this is "suck it up, buttercup" and "fuck your feelings".

The point was that there is much common ground. That’s it. Full stop.

Sorry if everyone has lost their mind. Oh, the horrors of being on par with those deplorables on any level!

Of course finding common ground would mean abandoning schoolyard grudges and name calling.

Motte-and-bailey fallacy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The motte-and-bailey fallacy (named after the motte-and-bailey castle) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy where an arguer conflates two positions that share similarities, one modest and easy to defend (the "motte") and one much more controversial and harder to defend (the "bailey").[1] The arguer advances the controversial position, but when challenged, they insist that they are only advancing the more modest position.[2][3] Upon retreating to the motte, the arguer can claim that the bailey has not been refuted (because the critic refused to attack the motte)[1] or that the critic is unreasonable (by equating an attack on the bailey with an attack on the motte).

Your motte is "there is much common ground/we share common values."
Your baileys are "liberals ooze contempt" and "both sides have extremists."

 

[laughing dog]

Anyone remember HRC and “deplorables”? Rightly or wrongly, that still sticks in their craw. It personified the perception that liberals/“the elite” attack them.

And? Whatever the center and left are guilty of, the right is guilty of far worse.

snowflakes
not "real Americans"
groomers
pedophiles
baby killers
infanticide
cannibals
drink the blood of children
satanic
demonic
beta males
low-T
soy boys
gay liberal agenda
pro-crime
they're replacing whites with poor dirty brown people
white genocide
racist against white people

What is the point of this exercise? Can liberals be mean? Sure. Right-wingers are meaner. Where does that leave us?

Wi

IMO this goes deeper than the media. Diversity, transgender issues, and gay marriage are but three issues where many conservatives feel their way of life is attacked.

Well, if we follow the right's lead, the appropriate response to this is "suck it up, buttercup" and "fuck your feelings".
[/QUOTE] And where would that leave anyone?

I don’t see how going on about how X is worse than Y has anything to do with the reality that X’s feels attacked by Y.

 

[Toni]

Anyone remember HRC and “deplorables”? Rightly or wrongly, that still sticks in their craw. It personified the perception that liberals/“the elite” attack them.

And? Whatever the center and left are guilty of, the right is guilty of far worse.

snowflakes
not "real Americans"
groomers
pedophiles
baby killers
infanticide
cannibals
drink the blood of children
satanic
demonic
beta males
low-T
soy boys
gay liberal agenda
pro-crime
they're replacing whites with poor dirty brown people
white genocide
racist against white people

What is the point of this exercise? Can liberals be mean? Sure. Right-wingers are meaner. Where does that leave us?

IMO this goes deeper than the media. Diversity, transgender issues, and gay marriage are but three issues where many conservatives feel their way of life is attacked.

Well, if we follow the right's lead, the appropriate response to this is "suck it up, buttercup" and "fuck your feelings".

The point was that there is much common ground. That’s it. Full stop.

Sorry if everyone has lost their mind. Oh, the horrors of being on par with those deplorables on any level!

Of course finding common ground would mean abandoning schoolyard grudges and name calling.

Motte-and-bailey fallacy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The motte-and-bailey fallacy (named after the motte-and-bailey castle) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy where an arguer conflates two positions that share similarities, one modest and easy to defend (the "motte") and one much more controversial and harder to defend (the "bailey").[1] The arguer advances the controversial position, but when challenged, they insist that they are only advancing the more modest position.[2][3] Upon retreating to the motte, the arguer can claim that the bailey has not been refuted (because the critic refused to attack the motte)[1] or that the critic is unreasonable (by equating an attack on the bailey with an attack on the motte).

Your motte is "there is much common ground/we share common values."
Your baileys are "liberals ooze contempt" and "both sides have extremists."

So what is controversial about: There is much common ground?

Because that’s my full position: There is much common ground.

Do you not believe that conservatives
Love their families?
Love their country?

Why do you NEED to conflate conservative with right wing nut job who tried to overthrow the government?

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

Hillary saying that 47% of Republicans were deplorables was a mistake to say. However, after that was said, instead of saying to themselves, let's prove her wrong, they embraced it and ran with it, and turned it into a true prophecy.

Regarding the term conservative, making rough guesses, I would say that Republican Party politicians are 50% extreme right-wing, 30% right- wing/neo-conservative, 20% conservative/centrist, with their support base 25% extreme right-wing, 55% right-wing/neo-conservative, and 20% conservative/centrist.
The Democratic Party politicians are 5% extreme right-wing, 15% right-wing/neo-conservative, 50% centre-right/conservative, 25% centrist, 5% left; with their support base being 10% right-wing/neo-conservative, 35% centre-right/conservative, 50% centrist, and 5% left.
So, as can see there are more actual conservatives amongst Democratic voters than Republican voters.

 

[scombrid]

But I would not underestimate the power of media - they are being told by their fellow conservtives that liberals are attacking them. They are rarely told that by liberals (meaning they are rarely attacked), but they believe it is happening because conservatives are telling them it’s happening.

Hence "Rage Against the Machine" being un-ironically played at their rallies.

 

[Elixir]

Sorry if everyone has lost their mind. Oh, the horrors of being on par with those deplorables on any level!

I think your issue with “libs” is touched on here;


The fact that they ARE dumb does not enter their equation. But the fact remains - they are “dumb” if they support a criminal conman to be their leader.

 

[Elixir]

Why do you NEED to conflate conservative with right wing nut job who tried to overthrow the government?

Gee, I don’t know …

TO KEEP RIGHT WING NUT JOBS FROM OVERTHROWING THE GOVERNMENT??

Just a guess. Complacency about that is how we got the Trump junta installed in the first place. But yeah - watch out for those radical, violent leftists!!

 

[Rhea]

So what is controversial about: There is much common ground?

Because that’s my full position: There is much common ground.

Then why did you post about “oozing contempt” and tell us we were “calling them stupid” and the others statements you made that I quoted.

I was answering those statements OF YOURS that had nothing to do with us having “common ground.”
They were accusations against liberals. It accused liberals of being condescending assholes.
It was not “we have common ground.” It was conservatives feel attacked and here’s how they’ve been attacked. By you liberals who-are-not-as-understanding-as-me.

If that was not your point, and if you are offended by me responding to it, then why did you post it?

 

[Rhea]

My motto when I was running for office was, “I don’t need to convince them that I’m right. I only need to convince them that I’m human.” Because we had common ground on so much of the actual policy, but they wouldn’t know until they could think of me as human.

That was me, finding common ground, long before this thread accusing me of being unwilling to see something from another’s point of view.
I sure as shit know how and why to do it. And I believe in it.

Which is EXACTLY my point when I respond that accusing us of “oozing contempt” is, indeed, NOT finding common ground, and why I object to that caricature, and why I posted everything that I did saying that the common ground is that we do NOT ”ooze contempt.” We have common ground. We are no more ”oozing contempt” than anyone else. Common ground. That’s your “full position.”

 

[CosmicJellyfish]

Anyone remember HRC and “deplorables”? Rightly or wrongly, that still sticks in their craw. It personified the perception that liberals/“the elite” attack them.

And? Whatever the center and left are guilty of, the right is guilty of far worse.

snowflakes
not "real Americans"
groomers
pedophiles
baby killers
infanticide
cannibals
drink the blood of children
satanic
demonic
beta males
low-T
soy boys
gay liberal agenda
pro-crime
they're replacing whites with poor dirty brown people
white genocide
racist against white people

What is the point of this exercise? Can liberals be mean? Sure. Right-wingers are meaner. Where does that leave us?

IMO this goes deeper than the media. Diversity, transgender issues, and gay marriage are but three issues where many conservatives feel their way of life is attacked.

Well, if we follow the right's lead, the appropriate response to this is "suck it up, buttercup" and "fuck your feelings".

The point was that there is much common ground. That’s it. Full stop.

Sorry if everyone has lost their mind. Oh, the horrors of being on par with those deplorables on any level!

Of course finding common ground would mean abandoning schoolyard grudges and name calling.

Motte-and-bailey fallacy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The motte-and-bailey fallacy (named after the motte-and-bailey castle) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy where an arguer conflates two positions that share similarities, one modest and easy to defend (the "motte") and one much more controversial and harder to defend (the "bailey").[1] The arguer advances the controversial position, but when challenged, they insist that they are only advancing the more modest position.[2][3] Upon retreating to the motte, the arguer can claim that the bailey has not been refuted (because the critic refused to attack the motte)[1] or that the critic is unreasonable (by equating an attack on the bailey with an attack on the motte).

Your motte is "there is much common ground/we share common values."
Your baileys are "liberals ooze contempt" and "both sides have extremists."

So what is controversial about: There is much common ground?

Nothing.

Because that’s my full position: There is much common ground.

You also have some other positions:
liberals ooze contempt
conservatives feel attacked
conservatives feel left behind
both sides have extremists

Do you not believe that conservatives
Love their families?
Love their country?

Empty platitudes.

Klansmen love their families and their country. How does acknowledgement of this help the targets of Klan hate?

Why do you NEED to conflate conservative with right wing nut job who tried to overthrow the government?

I don't do that. As I've already explained, MAGA is a fascist movement. Trump voters are supporters of a fascist movement. Non-Trump Republicans who remain with the party despite the fascist takeover are fascist collaborators. Conservatives who have left the party and no longer vote for GOP candidates or support the GOP in any way have done the right thing in my view.