Could Trump resign within 60 days?

[Opoponax]

Trump can't resign.

It's the only thing keeping him out of prison and/or having many of his assets seized by states such as New York. I wish I could post the most pertinent part of the NY Times article, but here is a sliver:

https://www.aol.com/article/news/20...ould-play-huge-role-in-russia-probe/23317371/

Essentially, even if several of the actors in the Trump camp (e.g. Manafort) are pardoned, the New York AG has state charges ready to roll against them. If Trump is implicated, and it's almost certain that he would be, then Trump would be prosecuted too and no one will have have the power to pardon him.

Second, it's a pretty damn good bet that Trump is making a mint off being POTUS. In terms of personal benefit, the tax cut was a great boon; in terms of his businesses, the same applies. Does any reasonable person doubt that the properties he visits and stays at aren't profiting tremendously at the expense of the taxpayer? Foreign dignitaries make sure to stay at his properties, and his sons are running all over the planet grabbing as much cash from foreign nations as they can get their hands on. Trump isn't just fleecing consumers and subcontractors now; he's getting money from nation states. And that's what we know about.

Trump is in a race; grabbing as much as he can, as fast as he can, and counting on the GOP to cover his ass no matter what happens. And maybe, just maybe, he can wriggle out of any criminal charges before his battery expires.

 

[ElectEngr]

Trump can't resign.

It's the only thing keeping him out of prison and/or having many of his assets seized by states such as New York. I wish I could post the most pertinent part of the NY Times article, but here is a sliver:

https://www.aol.com/article/news/20...ould-play-huge-role-in-russia-probe/23317371/

Essentially, even if several of the actors in the Trump camp (e.g. Manafort) are pardoned, the New York AG has state charges ready to roll against them. If Trump is implicated, and it's almost certain that he would be, then Trump would be prosecuted too and no one will have have the power to pardon him.

Second, it's a pretty damn good bet that Trump is making a mint off being POTUS. In terms of personal benefit, the tax cut was a great boon; in terms of his businesses, the same applies. Does any reasonable person doubt that the properties he visits and stays at aren't profiting tremendously at the expense of the taxpayer? Foreign dignitaries make sure to stay at his properties, and his sons are running all over the planet grabbing as much cash from foreign nations as they can get their hands on. Trump isn't just fleecing consumers and subcontractors now; he's getting money from nation states. And that's what we know about.

Trump is in a race; grabbing as much as he can, as fast as he can, and counting on the GOP to cover his ass no matter what happens. And maybe, just maybe, he can wriggle out of any criminal charges before his battery expires.

Call me paranoid, but that's assuming the Russians don't flip the NY AG in November. I wouldn't put it past them

Later,
ElectEngr

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

If Trump doesn't finish his term, it won't embarrass the Republicans as much as people here hope.

They can fall back to the fact that he only recently became a Republican and was opposed by the party in his primary bid. Then they can allege that the Russian interference conspiracy theory is true and that's why Trump won the primary. Pence can then take up the mantle of taking the Republican Party back to a party by the Republicans for the Republican.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Will a resignation even save him at this point? I have a feeling Mueller's investigation has uncovered more than just election and campaign shenanigans. If he's been laundering money the way it appears he has, his ass, and some of his family is doing jail time.

Can he pardon himself or have Pence pardon him for that? Would he be the first ex-president to be in jail?

 

[Malintent]

July 22, 2018. That is my prediction for when the final verdict will be in... who broke what laws, etc... After that, it will just be procedural... more or less.

I said it in January, and I stand by my prediction.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

No, it does not. Nixon was pardoned even though he was not found guilty.

Nope:

At a 2014 panel discussion, Ford’s lawyer during that period, Benton Becker, explained another part of [Ford's] motivation was a 1915 Supreme Court decision, Burdick v. United States, which made Nixon accept his guilt in the Watergate controversy by also accepting the pardon.

The Court’s ruling in Burdick was that a pardon carried an "imputation of guilt" and accepting a pardon was "an admission of guilt.” Becker said he took copies of the Burdick decision to California when he met with former President Nixon, and under Ford’s instructions, he walked through the Burdick decision with Nixon.

Becker said the discussion with Nixon was very difficult, and the former President kept trying to change the subject way from Burdick until he acknowledged Becker’s discussion about what the Supreme Court decision meant.

After he left the White House, Ford carried part of the Burdick decision with him in his wallet in case someone brought up the pardon. In a later interview with Woodward for Caroline Kennedy’s book, “Profiles in Courage for Our Time,” Ford pulled out the dog-eared decision and read the key parts of it to Woodward.

Pence can offer a pardon, but if Trump accepts it is an admission of guilt.

I think the idea that President Trump will be indicted for anything is far-fetched and wishful thinking.

Certainly possible (both that he would be indicted and that it's wishful thinking).

My guess is that the "meeting" with Trump is intended to be a situation where Mueller basically says, "It's either you resign or you're fucked." And then he lays out exactly how he will be fucked--hitting him in his wallet first and foremost--in a manner that even Trump couldn't deny or pretend won't happen. Whether that then actually results in Trump doing the smart thing is anyone's guess, of course, but there is a big difference between thinking "they've got nothing on me, i'm invincible" and seeing they've got everything on you and you're fucked.

My guess is Pence has already insulated himself from the Trump sleaze.

There is no way for him to do that. He came in on Trump's dance card and it will always be considered Trump's presidency, no matter how early it may end for Trump. Same was true of Nixon and Ford--that Ford was merely acting out the remainder of Nixon's presidency--which is why he ran after it was over (so that he could start fresh with his own presidency).

And, I think Pence is smart enough to not pardon Trump for something like treason.

He doesn't strike me as a very smart man, but it's possible.

So, I think a Pence presidency would make most people want Trump back.

Yes, well, again, it won't be his presidency. For it to be his presidency, he'd have to run and win in 2020. It will always be considered Trump's presidency and anything Pence tries to get passed by what will hopefully be a Dem controlled Congress (if only in the sense that we control the House and can thereby shut anything down) will always be viewed through that lens.

Think of it in terms of Trump and Pence being best friends and the Trump is proved to be a pedophile. No matter what, people are going to look at the only man left standing as either a pedophile himself or the friend of a pedophile. Either way, his standing has shit the bed just for ever having stood next to him.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Will a resignation even save him at this point? I have a feeling Mueller's investigation has uncovered more than just election and campaign shenanigans. If he's been laundering money the way it appears he has, his ass, and some of his family is doing jail time.

Can he pardon himself or have Pence pardon him for that? Would he be the first ex-president to be in jail?

He cannot pardon himself and if Pence offers a pardon, he still has to accept the pardon, which is an admission of guilt. In which case he might not see any jail time, but he might still lose his wealth. It all depends on whether or not the loss of wealth (as a result of it having been gained by money-laundering) would be considered by the courts as a "penalty":

Presidential pardons can be granted anytime after an offense has been committed including before, during, or after a conviction for the offense. If granted before a conviction is given, it prevents any penalties from attaching to the person. If granted after a conviction, it removes the penalties, and restores the person to all his or her civil rights. However, a pardon can never be granted before an offense has been committed – because the president does not have the power to waive the laws.

Since Trump would have to resign before Pence would become President in order for Pence to then gain presidential pardoning powers (say that five times fast)--and Trump would have to accept the pardon, which would be an admission of guilt for whatever crime(s) was specified by Pence--whether or not "penalties" (such as forfeiture of wealth) would be waived remains an open question (aside from how that may play out in regard to state indictments and/or personal lawsuits).

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Did Nixon serve time or lose his wealth?

 

[Jayjay]

I heard someone say recently that the reason he cares about the rumored pee tape and Stormy Daniels (as opposed to not caring about literally every other woman who has complained and spoken out about his sexist behavior) is that Daniels and the sex tape would reveal actual evidence of sexual activity and he most likely has a prenup with Melania that would cost him huge if he were caught cheating. Just speculation, of course, but doesn't it make sense?

Why the hell would Donald Trump, knowing that he is Donald Trump, make such a prenuptial agreement? Even he isn't that stupid.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I heard someone say recently that the reason he cares about the rumored pee tape and Stormy Daniels (as opposed to not caring about literally every other woman who has complained and spoken out about his sexist behavior) is that Daniels and the sex tape would reveal actual evidence of sexual activity and he most likely has a prenup with Melania that would cost him huge if he were caught cheating. Just speculation, of course, but doesn't it make sense?

Why the hell would Donald Trump, knowing that he is Donald Trump, make such a prenuptial agreement? Even he isn't that stupid.

The same reason he said he'd grabbed women by the pussy on tape. Overconfidence. He thought he had a genius system in place, have his lawyer be the middle man in crooked deals. The lawyer or the donald could then claim attorney client privilege or even lie for that reason. Legally. Allegedly. It's the kind of thing you see in a TV show and if you're a rich douchebag with a lawyer, you'll try it out.

 

[Opoponax]

I heard someone say recently that the reason he cares about the rumored pee tape and Stormy Daniels (as opposed to not caring about literally every other woman who has complained and spoken out about his sexist behavior) is that Daniels and the sex tape would reveal actual evidence of sexual activity and he most likely has a prenup with Melania that would cost him huge if he were caught cheating. Just speculation, of course, but doesn't it make sense?

Why the hell would Donald Trump, knowing that he is Donald Trump, make such a prenuptial agreement? Even he isn't that stupid.

Yeah. That relationship is much more of a contractual arrangement than a marriage.

She gets a baby, a rich and famous lifestyle, and a tidy sum if it doesn't work out. That he would continue to raw dog as many women as he could was a given. She knew that. It's why no one should ever feel bad for her. The only reason she has negative feelings is because it's all out in the open and it humiliates her. But that's as it should be. She backed his shit-brained birther message and maybe once in a while there's a price to be paid for being a profligate trophy whore.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Did Nixon serve time or lose his wealth?

No, but then he wasn’t accused of money laundering. Trump may not be either, but it is looking as if that will be one of the charges. If that’s the case, it’s possible that his wealth would be seized. If a court rules that a “penalty,” however, then it may fall under presidential pardon, but again, that would only be on the federal level. I don’t know how forfeiture would work on a state and/or personal (i.e., civil) level.

Fun dose of irony: Jeff Sessions: Feds Have the Right to Seize Your Cash, Property.

Snippet:

On Wednesday, Sessions declared that civil asset forfeiture was back. It didn’t go anywhere, mind you. The controversial process in which police can not only seize property like cars and cash they suspect are connected to a crime, but profit from it too, was gently restricted at the federal level by former-Obama Attorney General Eric Holder. Now, under Sessions, no matter what state law says, “Under the Attorney General’s Order, federal adoption of all types of assets seized lawfully by state or local law enforcement under their respective state laws is authorized whenever the conduct giving rise to the seizure violates federal law.”

 

[starwater]

Well now that his personal lawyer has resigned - John Dowd. What's the defense angle going to be? We Tole him and Tole him not to lie, so we just poor lawyers are here to clean up the mess.

 

[Tristan Scott]

Why should he resign? Everything is working brilliantly. He is managing to keep everyones attention on all the bullshit thats going on while his congress is quietly making huge strides towards ensuring that his and his fellow billionaire's fortunes will multiply exponentially. Soon the 1% will become the .1%. No Trump is making a killing.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Quite true. The Supremes have already decreed that money = speech, which means you don't need any bribery statutes; there won't be bribery any more, the rich will simply purchase the legislatures. They're about to disallow union contributions to campaigns (best guess) -- the Republitards have sequenced out a clear path to rule by minority. It's gonna be a sweet century if you own your own fleet of jets.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Quite true. The Supremes have already decreed that money = speech, which means you don't need any bribery statutes; there won't be bribery any more, the rich will simply purchase the legislatures. They're about to disallow union contributions to campaigns (best guess) -- the Republitards have sequenced out a clear path to rule by minority. It's gonna be a sweet century if you own your own fleet of jets.

It's funny because we base our democracy on Ancient Greece. In Ancient Athens when you took the floor in the political sense to speak if you were being bribed, you'd be run out of town. It wasn't really honest political speech, but lies...and lies from someone else...

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Why should he resign? Everything is working brilliantly. He is managing to keep everyones attention on all the bullshit thats going on while his congress is quietly making huge strides towards ensuring that his and his fellow billionaire's fortunes will multiply exponentially. Soon the 1% will become the .1%. No Trump is making a killing.

One does wonder how far the pendulum will swing before another FDR is elected out of sheer necessity.

 

[Patooka]

Why should he resign? Everything is working brilliantly. He is managing to keep everyones attention on all the bullshit thats going on while his congress is quietly making huge strides towards ensuring that his and his fellow billionaire's fortunes will multiply exponentially. Soon the 1% will become the .1%. No Trump is making a killing.

One does wonder how far the pendulum will swing before another FDR is elected out of sheer necessity.

If you mean electing another disabled president, you've got one. If you mean someone with an ideology like FDR, never again. You can't jump into the same river twice.

 

[braces_for_impact]

I dunno, we can't seem to stay out of "trickle down" river long enough to dry off...

 

[jab]

Will a resignation even save him at this point? I have a feeling Mueller's investigation has uncovered more than just election and campaign shenanigans. If he's been laundering money the way it appears he has, his ass, and some of his family is doing jail time.

I think Mike Pence would take a deal from Grump. In exchange for being handed the Presidency, he could pardon all trump campaign members.

But Presidential pardons apply only to Federal crimes, right, not State crimes? Or am I mistaken in that? Nixon's crime(s) appear to have been federal, but financial corruption can also be State.