Could you live without plastic?

[T.G.G. Moogly]

And it's a matter of degree. One needn't eliminate all plastic to make a difference, that would be ideal but doing something is far better than being upset about not eliminating the problem completely.

I use reusable cloth bags and keep them in the car. If I hit the road on my bike I grab one from the car. It works.

 

[thebeave]

One thing to keep in mind is that if you eliminate a plastic item from your life, frequently you have to substitute with an equivalent material that may be worse for the environment. Paper, glass, metal, plant based substitutes...they all have their drawbacks. Its a complex issue, so just don't go strutting around like you're some kind of environmental god, because you've eliminated plastics from your life. You may be in fact, making things worse.

 

[Toni]

One thing to keep in mind is that if you eliminate a plastic item from your life, frequently you have to substitute with an equivalent material that may be worse for the environment. Paper, glass, metal, plant based substitutes...they all have their drawbacks. Its a complex issue, so just don't go strutting around like you're some kind of environmental god, because you've eliminated plastics from your life. You may be in fact, making things worse.

This is true. Reducing consumption in general helps reduce waste—but may harm people who are put out of work when demand for the products they make decreases.

Reusing what you can reduces consumption and further keeps materials out of the waste stream.

At this point, some believe that our capacity to recycle has been reached. More techniology needs to be developed. All recycling involved energy and water resources.

There are drawbacks to every voice. But we can make informed, and conscious decisions rather than mindlessly following hav
Bits that may be wasteful or damaging to the environment.

 

[bilby]

One thing to keep in mind is that if you eliminate a plastic item from your life, frequently you have to substitute with an equivalent material that may be worse for the environment. Paper, glass, metal, plant based substitutes...they all have their drawbacks. Its a complex issue, so just don't go strutting around like you're some kind of environmental god, because you've eliminated plastics from your life. You may be in fact, making things worse.

It's worse than that. Plastics aren't the problem here - littering is the problem. Plastics properly disposed of into well managed landfills have no negative effects on the environment, and represent a small carbon sink, so their overall effect is at least slightly beneficial - even before you factor in the harm done by using less effective substitutes, such as the waste of food that could have been protected by plastic, but wasn't.

The real issue with plastics comes when they get into the environment in an uncontrolled way - as litter. It is plastic litter that kills wildlife and pollutes our oceans. Plastic litter is a big problem. But it's not one that is significantly impacted upon by asking people to stop using plastic - because the people who stop using plastics to save the environment are the same people who were already careful to avoid littering. The guy who chucks trash out of his car window, or abandons his trash at the beach or in the park when he is done, rather than taking it home, is the same guy who takes no notice at all of greenie campaigns to reduce the use of plastics.

Giving up plastics has only one benefit - and it's not a benefit to the environment. It makes people who do it feel good, and gives them a nice smug glow of virtue and righteousness.

These smug gits would improve the environment a great deal more if they kept using plastics themselves, and put their efforts into collecting up litter whenever they see it, and disposing of it properly. But cleaning up after our less civic minded fellow citizens isn't as much fun as berating them for using plastic shopping bags.

 

[southernhybrid]

I'm not trying to give up using plastic. I just never thought about how dependent we are on plastic, until I read about the woman who tried to give up all things plastic, but I kind of doubt she feels "smug". She probably simply feels as if she's trying to do something useful or maybe she's just trying to prove a point. Who really knows what goes on in the minds of others?

But, along with all the devastating articles that I've read about plastic, I found one from Forbes that pointed out both the awful mess that we've made with our plastic trash, but then offers a possible solution, if one is optimistic.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/grrlscientist/2018/04/23/five-ways-that-plastics-harm-the-environment-and-one-way-they-may-help/#15db6bcc67a0

 

[southernhybrid]

https://wwf.fi/mediabank/11094.pdf

The Mediterranean Sea, cradle of civilization and centre of extraordinary environmental heritage, is today one of the seas with the highest levels of plastic pollution in the world.
Plastics account for 95% of the waste in the open sea, on the seabed and on beaches across the Mediterranean. This waste comes mainly from Turkey and Spain, followed by Italy, Egypt and France.
Europe is the second largest plastics producer in the world, after China, dumping 150,000-500,000 tonnes of macroplastics and 70,000-130,000
70-130,000 tons
.

The above link is an extremely long report about the harm that plastics are doing. Most aren't biodegradable and while I don't think the US is dumping them into the sea, our landfill are full of them.

I found that link from a NYTimes article that came out today reporting another whale was found dead with an enormous amount of plastics in its stomach.

 

[TSwizzle]

Arrrrggghhhhh !!! So as a favor to my kid I said I would go gas up their car and while I was out get some groceries on the way home. Before I leave I get the grocery bags from my own car to take with me. However, one of the bags has a tear in it so I get the duct tape out and perform a quick repair. I put he bag on the step by the back door, go into the house to get my keys etc and jump in the car and leave. So I drive to Costco and the gas station is closed, Easter Sunday, shit, grrrrrr. So I get to the store, open the trunk of the car and arrrrrgghhhhh I had forgotten my bags !!! and there are no spare bags in the trunk. I contemplated driving home and getting the bags but decided against it. I had to use two plastic bags for produce, first time in about a year. I was so pissed. When I got home, I immediately put a couple of reusable bags in the trunk of my kid's car.

 

[TSwizzle]

An interesting article in Teh Gruaniad about US plastic recycling;

What happens to your plastic after you drop it in a recycling bin? According to promotional materials from America’s plastics industry, it is whisked off to a factory where it is seamlessly transformed into something new. A Guardian investigation has found that hundreds of thousands of tons of US plastic are being shipped every year to poorly regulated developing countries around the globe for the dirty, labor-intensive process of recycling. The consequences for public health and the environment are grim.

Teh Gruaniad

 

[southernhybrid]

I skimmed your link TSwizzle. I did read something a few days ago, that was very similar, as it mentioned how much damage or recycling has done when we ship it to poor countries. It's true that few of us realized until recently how large a problem our plastic usage is for the entire world. Unfortunately, almost everything we buy these days comes in single use plastic. It's a huge problem. Sure, you can use your own bags at the grocery store, but if you buy produce, the only option is to put it in plastic bags, since I only know of one chain that even offers paper bags, and they charge for those. And, even that chain used plastic to wrap things up.

I can't stop thinking of that line from the 1960,s movie, "The Graduate" where the guy tells Dustin Hoffman's character that the future is in plastics. Little did we know what harm we were about to bring to the world. Hindsight is always 20/20, but we rarely understand the unintended consequences of our behavior until the damage has been done.

I've cut down on my consumption of many things, but we still need to eat, and use basic things like laundry detergent, shampoo etc. Individuals can't change this. It must come from industry and government. I am not hopeful of that happening anytime soon.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

An interesting article in Teh Gruaniad about US plastic recycling;

What happens to your plastic after you drop it in a recycling bin? According to promotional materials from America’s plastics industry, it is whisked off to a factory where it is seamlessly transformed into something new. A Guardian investigation has found that hundreds of thousands of tons of US plastic are being shipped every year to poorly regulated developing countries around the globe for the dirty, labor-intensive process of recycling. The consequences for public health and the environment are grim.

Teh Gruaniad

From another article from the same source:

The proliferation of single-use plastic around the world is accelerating climate change and should be urgently halted, a report warns.

Plastic production is expanding worldwide, fuelled in part by the fracking boom in the US. The report says plastic contributes to greenhouse gas emissions at every stage of its lifecycle, from its production to its refining and the way it is managed as a waste product.

This plastic binge threatens attempts to meet the Paris climate agreement. It means that by 2050 plastic will be responsible for up to 13% of the total “carbon budget” – equivalent to 615 coal-fired power plants – says the research published on Thursday.

The contribution of plastic production and disposal to climate change has been largely hidden, say the authors of the report by the Center for International Environmental Law, which estimates the greenhouse gas footprint of plastic from the cradle to the grave for the first time.

While plastic pollution in the oceans has become a high-profile concern, the effect on climate change of the ubiquitous use of plastic has not been a focus.
...
“With the petrochemical and plastic industries planning a massive expansion in production, the problem is on track to get much worse.”
...
Throwaway plastic packaging makes up 40% of the demand for plastic, fuelling a boom in production from 2m tonnes in the 1950s to 380m tonnes in 2015. By the end of 2015, 8.3bn metric tonnes of plastic had been produced – two-thirds of which has been released into the environment and remains there.
...
Forty per cent of plastic packaging waste is disposed of at sanitary landfills, 14% goes to incineration facilities and 14% is collected for recycling. Incineration creates the most CO2 emissions among the plastic waste management methods.

Nearly all plastic – 99% – is made from fossil fuels.

Refining the material is the most greenhouse gas intensive part of the plastic lifecycle, and major expansions in the US and elsewhere will accelerate climate change, the report says.

A Shell ethane cracker being constructed in Pennsylvania could emit up to 2.25m tonnes of CO2 each year and a new ethylene plant at ExxonMobil’s refinery in Baytown, Texas, could release up to 1.4m tonnes. The annual emissions from just these two new facilities would be equal to adding almost 800,000 cars to the road, the report says.

In 2019 the lifecycle of global plastic production – from extraction to disposal – was equivalent to the impact on the climate of 189 500MW coal-fired power stations. By 2050, the report predicts, the global plastic footprint will be equivalent to 615 coal plants running at full capacity.

“Plastic is among the most significant and rapidly growing sources of industrial greenhouse gas emissions,” the report says. “Emissions from plastic emerge not only from the production and manufacture of plastic itself, but from every stage in the plastic lifecycle – from the extraction and transport of the fossil fuels that are the primary feedstocks for plastic, to refining and manufacturing, to waste management, to the plastic that enters the environment.”

Carroll Muffett, one of the authors, said: “It has long been clear that plastic threatens the global environment and puts human health at risk. This report demonstrates that plastic, like the rest of the fossil economy, is putting the climate at risk as well.”

The actual study (for you to read and then pretend you know better) can be downloaded here: Plastic & Climate: The Hidden Costs of a Plastic Planet.

 

[ralfy]

Not just plastics but petrochemicals are used for thousands of applications, and are integral to modern industrial civilization.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Not just plastics but petrochemicals are used for thousands of applications, and are integral to modern industrial civilization.

That doesn't mean they are necessary nor beneficial. They are merely convenient in regard to just about anything to do with consumer-oriented goods and services, which are by far and away the largest pollutants. There is no reason for anyone to own a "disposable" razor or to not eat with reusable utensils at ANY restaurant, including a "fast food" joint.

Companies have simply chased after convenience as a marketing gimmick, not an economic necessity. In fact, restaurants can actually SAVE more money on reusable utensils than on throw-aways. Here's a good study on what happened when just two public school cafeterias changed to reusable:

In the first year, the schools saved approximately $3,000 combined by buying the reusable utensils and bowls. The annual per student costs for food-ware dropped from $6.89 to $4.83.

Environmental impacts included prevention of about 6,000 lb of on-site solid waste in the first year. Instead of buying 700,000 plastic utensils, the school purchased just 12,000 metal reusable utensils. In addition, in the first year of use, the change to reusable utensils and bowls are estimated to result in a 44% reduction in life cycle greenhouse gasses and similar reductions in water withdrawals and air pollution emissions versus the disposables. Taken alone, the metal utensils resulted in a 77% reduction in greenhouse gases and water consumption over disposable plastic utensils.

The benefits of reusables increase the longer they are in use. Over three years of use, the schools could anticipate saving an estimated $23,000. Environmental benefits accrue as well. Over three years of use, the reusable utensils (not the bowls) would result in an estimated life-cycle reduction of 88% of greenhouse gasses, air pollutants and water consumption over the disposables. On-site impacts to water and electricity use were found to be negligible and did not change the net overall magnitude of the lifecycle benefits of the reusables. Changes to staff routines were easily accommodated. Several tips for implementing use of reusables in schools were developed.

This case study shows that a return to reusable utensils in schools can be good for the bottom line and the environment. Moreover, the case study shows that common concerns about reusables – that on-site water and electricity use will undercut environmental benefits – are unfounded.

And there's this restaurant case study that resulted in a comparable savings:

Their annual impacts are:

• $3,204.89 in net savings
• Eliminating 65,052 pieces of disposable packaging
• Preventing 1,400 lbs of waste

There are many many many many more examples.

There simply isn't a reason to continue throwing everything we ever come into contact with away.

 

[ralfy]

That doesn't mean they are necessary nor beneficial. They are merely convenient in regard to just about anything to do with consumer-oriented goods and services, which are by far and away the largest pollutants. There is no reason for anyone to own a "disposable" razor or to not eat with reusable utensils at ANY restaurant, including a "fast food" joint.

Companies have simply chased after convenience as a marketing gimmick, not an economic necessity. In fact, restaurants can actually SAVE more money on reusable utensils than on throw-aways. Here's a good study on what happened when just two public school cafeterias changed to reusable:



And there's this restaurant case study that resulted in a comparable savings:

Their annual impacts are:

• $3,204.89 in net savings
• Eliminating 65,052 pieces of disposable packaging
• Preventing 1,400 lbs of waste

There are many many many many more examples.

There simply isn't a reason to continue throwing everything we ever come into contact with away.

The use of plastic as well as petrochemicals involve more than just disposable products. We're looking at vehicles, all sorts of electronic devices, appliances, medical equipment and medicine, components for renewable energy, electrical systems, food, liquid, and chemical storage, clothes, home and water fixtures, and more. It's even more for petrochemicals.

This reminds me of people who argue that oil is needed only to provide power to cars. They don't realize that it's even needed to make cars.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

There simply isn't a reason to continue throwing everything we ever come into contact with away.

The use of plastic as well as petrochemicals involve more than just disposable products.

I know. That's why I specified, "They are merely convenient in regard to just about anything to do with consumer-oriented goods and services, which are by far and away the largest pollutants."

This reminds me of people who argue that oil is needed only to provide power to cars.

This reminds me of people who have very poor reading comprehension skills and instead of listening to someone speak, they just wait to talk.

 

[ralfy]

I know. That's why I specified, "They are merely convenient in regard to just about anything to do with consumer-oriented goods and services, which are by far and away the largest pollutants."

This reminds me of people who argue that oil is needed only to provide power to cars.

This reminds me of people who have very poor reading comprehension skills and instead of listening to someone speak, they just wait to talk.

From what I know, around 10 pct of plastics is used for consumer products. The bulk (around 75 pct) goes to packaging, construction materials, textiles, and others. Similarly, a significant chunk of oil and gas are used for mining, manufacturing, transport, and even mechanized agriculture.

That's why I had to point out that this reminds me of people who think that oil is used only as fuel to power up cars, just as plastics are primarily used for "consumer-oriented goods and services."

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I know. That's why I specified, "They are merely convenient in regard to just about anything to do with consumer-oriented goods and services, which are by far and away the largest pollutants."

This reminds me of people who argue that oil is needed only to provide power to cars.

This reminds me of people who have very poor reading comprehension skills and instead of listening to someone speak, they just wait to talk.

From what I know, around 10 pct of plastics is used for consumer products.

I'm not sure where you are getting that from, but I found this information from 2015/2016 shows that packaging is overwhelmingly the largest sector, which in turn is larger than the next five largest categories combined. As the site notes:

Packaging is the dominant sectoral use of plastics globally accounting for 42 percent (146 million tonnes) in 2016. This was followed by construction with 19 percent (65 million tonnes).
...
Since packaging tends to have a much lower product lifetime than other products (such as construction or textiles), it is also dominant in terms of annual waste generation. It is responsible for almost half of global plastic waste.

But the issue isn't its use necessarily; the issue is in its disposable use. Using plastic for aircraft or other durable items that are not meant to be used once and then thrown away is an entirely different matter.

The carbon footprint of speciality, non-disposable items, however, is vastly dwarfed by the carbon footprint for the disposable items.

 

[ralfy]

From what I know, around 10 pct of plastics is used for consumer products.

I'm not sure where you are getting that from, but I found this information from 2015/2016 shows that packaging is overwhelmingly the largest sector, which in turn is larger than the next five largest categories combined. As the site notes:

Packaging is the dominant sectoral use of plastics globally accounting for 42 percent (146 million tonnes) in 2016. This was followed by construction with 19 percent (65 million tonnes).
...
Since packaging tends to have a much lower product lifetime than other products (such as construction or textiles), it is also dominant in terms of annual waste generation. It is responsible for almost half of global plastic waste.

But the issue isn't its use necessarily; the issue is in its disposable use. Using plastic for aircraft or other durable items that are not meant to be used once and then thrown away is an entirely different matter.

The carbon footprint of speciality, non-disposable items, however, is vastly dwarfed by the carbon footprint for the disposable items.

According to "The world of plastics, in numbers," 10 pct of plastics is used for consumer and institutional products.

Packaging includes materials used for shipment of goods and long-term storage of chemicals, food, medicine, and others. This is critical as goods involve extensive supply chains across thousands of km, with content needed to be kept intact, clean, safe, and even light to keep transport costs low.

On top of that, in terms of pollution overall much of plastics come from oil and gas, and only 4 pct of those are used for petrochemicals. The bulk is used for heating, energy, and transport.

Beyond oil and gas are material resources and energy in general. To meet the basic needs of the world population, and assuming that that population will continue growing, we will need the equivalent of one more earth. To meet conveniences minus single-use plastic, around four more earths.

In short, the very industrial civilization on which the global population is dependent requires not just all sorts of plastics (and not for convenience) but even lots of oil and gas to produce those and more. Just getting rid of single-use plastic won't be enough.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

According to "The world of plastics, in numbers," 10 pct of plastics is used for consumer and institutional products.

From your own source:

More than one-third of the plastic polymers produced in 2015 were used for packaging. That category also generated the most waste.

Packaging: 35.9%
Building and construction: 16.0%
Textiles: 14.5%
Other: 11.5%
Consumer and institutional products: 10.3%
Transportation: 6.6%
Electrical/electronic: 4.4%
Industrial machinery: 0.7%​

For some reason I can't take a screenshot and upload the graph, but those are the numbers clearly stated.

Packaging includes materials used for shipment of goods and long-term storage of chemicals, food, medicine, and others.

Here is how your source's source broke it down visually:

And here in their abstract and introduction (emphasis mine):

We estimate that 8300 million metric tons (Mt) as of virgin plastics have been produced to date. As of 2015, approximately 6300 Mt of plastic waste had been generated, around 9% of which had been recycled, 12% was incinerated, and 79% was accumulated in landfills or the natural environment. If current production and waste management trends continue, roughly 12,000 Mt of plastic waste will be in landfills or in the natural environment by 2050.
...
[P]lastics’ largest market is packaging, an application whose growth was accelerated by a global shift from reusable to single-use containers. As a result, the share of plastics in municipal solid waste (by mass) increased from less than 1% in 1960 to more than 10% by 2005 in middle- and high-income countries.
...
None of the commonly used plastics are biodegradable. As a result, they accumulate, rather than decompose, in landfills or the natural environment (6). The only way to permanently eliminate plastic waste is by destructive thermal treatment, such as combustion or pyrolysis. Thus, near-permanent contamination of the natural environment with plastic waste is a growing concern. Plastic debris has been found in all major ocean basins (6), with an estimated 4 to 12 million metric tons (Mt) of plastic waste generated on land entering the marine environment in 2010 alone (3). Contamination of freshwater systems and terrestrial habitats is also increasingly reported (7–9), as is environmental contamination with synthetic fibers (9, 10). Plastic waste is now so ubiquitous in the environment that it has been suggested as a geological indicator of the proposed Anthropocene era (11).

We present the first global analysis of all mass-produced plastics ever made by developing and combining global data on production, use, and end-of-life fate of polymer resins, synthetic fibers, and additives into a comprehensive material flow model. The analysis includes thermoplastics, thermosets, polyurethanes (PURs), elastomers, coatings, and sealants but focuses on the most prevalent resins and fibers: high-density polyethylene (PE), low-density and linear low-density PE, polypropylene (PP), polystyrene (PS), polyvinylchloride (PVC), polyethylene terephthalate (PET), and PUR resins; and polyester, polyamide, and acrylic (PP&A) fibers. The pure polymer is mixed with additives to enhance the properties of the material.
...
Most of the packaging plastics leave use the same year they are produced, whereas construction plastics leaving use were produced decades earlier, when production quantities were much lower. For example, in 2015, 42% of primary nonfiber plastics produced (146 Mt) entered use as packaging and 19% (65 Mt) as construction, whereas nonfiber plastic waste leaving use was 54% packaging (141 Mt) and only 5% construction (12 Mt).
...
We estimate that 2500 Mt of plastics—or 30% of all plastics ever produced—are currently in use. Between 1950 and 2015, cumulative waste generation of primary and secondary (recycled) plastic waste amounted to 6300 Mt. Of this, approximately 800 Mt (12%) of plastics have been incinerated and 600 Mt (9%) have been recycled, only 10% of which have been recycled more than once. Around 4900 Mt—60% of all plastics ever produced—were discarded and are accumulating in landfills or in the natural environment (Fig. 2). Of this, 600 Mt were PP&A fibers. None of the mass-produced plastics biodegrade in any meaningful way; however, sunlight weakens the materials, causing fragmentation into particles known to reach millimeters or micrometers in size (32). Research into the environmental impacts of these “microplastics” in marine and freshwater environments has accelerated in recent years (33), but little is known about the impacts of plastic waste in land-based ecosystems.

So, very clearly when they refer to "packaging" they are predominantly referring to single-use/disposable consumer-oriented items and NOT "long term storage." Or, at least not long-term beyond one year, which is clearly intended as the upper bound.

This is critical as goods involve extensive supply chains across thousands of km, with content needed to be kept intact, clean, safe, and even light to keep transport costs low.

I'm not concerned about a business wanting to keep their profits ridiculously high at the cost of our own survival. Regardless, the solutions can come in a combination of innnovative thinking and how the whole idea of more efficient transport systems and how our "throw away" culture gets transformed (note, that won't mean no plastic packaging at all).

On top of that, in terms of pollution overall much of plastics come from oil and gas

Yep. And much from single-use/throw away.

Just getting rid of single-use plastic won't be enough.

Then it's a damn good thing no one is arguing we just do that and nothing else.

 

[jab]

well if single-use plastic was replaced (where it's necessary) and removed (where it's not necessary), I could manage just fine. I'm old enough to remember when there was much much less plastic used even in the "First World" than there is now.
Meanwhile, I'm trying to cutback and recycle.

 

[jab]

cloth bags are sold in my main supermarket, and the subsidiary "organic one--for bagless customers, the later uses paper bags, like in the olden days of um the 1960s. . .