Covid-19 miscellany

[Ruth Harris]

Ruth, if a pro vaccine, pro monoclonal antibody, pro paxlovid doctor ALSO prescribed fluvoxamine for some of his covid patients with current RCT results about that drug, but no imprimatur from the NIH/FDA for what should be in his domain for sensible off label use....

Should that doctor have a sanction for that?

Not talking about crazies and dementia addled docs, but sensible ones.

Or do you not think it is sensible to prescribe fluvoxamine to any patient with covid?

I don't know. I am not a physician. Are you? These decisions should be made and reviewed by actual physicians as is specified in the California bill under discussion.

Ruth

 

[repoman]

If the doctor tells the patient a true fact of how well that fluvoxamine did in the randomize controlled trials and also the truth that it does not have full "blessing" of the NIH then the misinformation part of the bill is not violated. The more nebulous "standard of care" clause, who knows what will be done with that.

This is what the NIH says about fluvoxamine and covid, not updated since December 16, 2021

Recommendation​

• There is insufficient evidence for the COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines Panel (the Panel) to recommend either for or against the use of fluvoxamine for the treatment of COVID-19.

More complete information in the link

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/therapies/immunomodulators/fluvoxamine/

So, with no recommendation AGAINST, a possible determination of violation of "standard of care" by the medical board seems a bit of a reach. But with no recommendation FOR, does this still put the doctor in jeopardy of losing the license? Is this fair?

 

[Elixir]

So there’s a high probability that some unspecified reduction of risk of hospitalization for severe COVID is associated with fluvoxine.
It is also associated with violent behavior and suicidal thinking in children and teenagers. Fair trade?
Luvox was taken off the market in part due to “false or misleading” statements of product safety. But the listed side effects other than what I mentioned above, don’t sound too terrible. Of course anything that assuages the GQP-cultivated paranoia about the vaccines that have proven safe over BILLIONS of doses, will be embraced wholeheartedly by the FOXwashed right.
Prob’ly not as bad as drinking piss or Chlorox, or taking doses of ivermectin intended for a 1200 pound horse.
I’d prefer that people get vaxed, like they did for smallpox, rubella, polio etc etc etc before the right wing propaganda machine got to them. But that horse has left the barn.

 

[repoman]

Elixir you are giving a "Sir, this is a Wendy's" response to a legitimate question.

It is only given for a couple weeks and its effect for covid induced disease (it is not antiviral) is not related to its psychiatric effects.

Should GQP people be a reason to not give a medication that is doing very well in very large RCTs?

 

[Elixir]

Should GQP people be a reason to not give a medication that is doing very well in very large RCTs?

First, “very well” is poorly (not at all) defined.
At a buck a dose it would be cheap, so if there’s a 90-something percent chance that it will help “at all” (let alone very well, as you assert without support) keeping a given COVID patient out of the hospital, then it’s worth it - at first blush.
But if its cheap availability is going to dissuade anyone from getting vaccinated, then imho it is counterproductive.
In short I don’t have enough info to give an unqualified yes or no to your question, and I don’t believe you do either.
I defer to the experts.

 

[ZiprHead]

Under this proposed law can a doctor have his medical license stripped for prescribing fluvoxamine that was found to be effective, but that the NIH is dragging its heels to give its blessing to?

Benefits of fluvoxamine confirmed in new study (McGill University Health Centre)

You guys have an insult name to give to fluvoxamine? Crazy pills? That might work.

All laws should be partially weighed against the worst excesses they will bring.

Why do you think the NIH is dragging its feet? The article you linked to was posted less than a week ago.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The pandemic response has proven to have been entirely ineffective. California, a state that had some of the most draconian covid responses faired worse than Florida in every measurable way. Should a doctor lose their license for discussing the subject? I guess in your world, yes.

We've already shown the research behind that Daily Fail article is horribly flawed.

 

[Hermit]

The pandemic response has proven to have been entirely ineffective. California, a state that had some of the most draconian covid responses faired worse than Florida in every measurable way.

How's life in the fact-free zone treating you, TSwizzle?

Let's have a look at a couple of measures: Total cases/1million of the population and total cases/1million of the population:

​	Cases/1M​	Deaths/1M​
California​	23,1196​	2,267​
Florida​	27,5473​	3,428​

You were saying?

 

[Swammerdami]

Or, to put it another way: Can we expect this partisan mortality shift to show up in the polling data?

Some back-of-the-envelope figures.

The 2016 Presidential election was very close: Hillary led 65.9 million to 63.0 million, not enough to overcome the EC disadvantage. Removing 900,000 Trump votes, spread evenly across the Trumpist population, would have tilted the election to the D's. 800,000 votes would NOT have been enough. Eliminating 1.4% of the R vote just isn't that huge. Ted Cruz, for example, beat Beto O'Rourke in a "close" election in 2018, but still would have won (barely) if 5% of his R vote disappeared.

Assume 2 million total Covid deaths, and that half the dead are either non-voters or would have died anyway. What partisan split could we hope for among the 1 million dead voters? Almost all the Covid dead are aged 60 years or more, and most are male. (Old white men are the main Trumpist demographic; without them the D's would win every election in a landslide.) The split might be 650k vs 350k even without the unsafe masking and vaccine behavior of Trumpists, but that's only a net disappearance of 300,000 votes. Foolish behavior by younger Trumpists is unlikely to lead to death. (Covid deaths vary by race, but the VERY low death rate of Asians — who mostly vote rationally — counters the slightly higher-than-white black death rate.)

We really need a million or more QOPAnoner's to go suicidal in order to have an important impact at the polls. Perhaps we'd best hope for an on-going stream of new virulent strains.

 

[Metaphor]

We really need a million or more QOPAnoner's to go suicidal in order to have an important impact at the polls. Perhaps we'd best hope for an on-going stream of new virulent strains.

Putting a smiley face on your fantasy of a virus strain killing a million of your political opponents doesn't make it as light-hearted as you think.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Opinion | Fox News' Covid vaccine lies deserve real consequences

I filed a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission on Tuesday. Here's hoping it moves forward.

www.msnbc.com

...
Typically, when Fox News spews lies or misinformation on political issues, my response is a mix of fact-checking and eye rolls. But the current misinformation campaign about the Covid-19 vaccine from some of Fox News’ most popular hosts demands more than a typical response given lives are on the line.

That’s why I filed a complaint this week with the Federal Trade Commission against Fox News for possible violations of the Covid-19 Consumer Protection Act. That law, enacted in December 2020, makes it “unlawful” for a corporation or individual “to engage in a deceptive act or practice in or affecting commerce associated with the treatment, cure, prevention, mitigation, or diagnosis of COVID–19.” My goal in filing this case is to prompt the agency to investigate and bring an end to the apparently deceptive information Fox News has been selling to the consumers of its channel.
...

Good luck with this. Faux has already been sued over their disinformation but it was dismissed on first amendment grounds.

 

[TSwizzle]

FFS, the CDC is extending its mask mandate on public transport into May despite there being zero evidence that masks work.

 

[zorq]

Even mild COVID-19 can cause your brain to shrink

Recent brain imaging shows the disease can cause physical changes equivalent to a decade of aging and trigger problems with attention and memory. Exactly why is still a mystery.

www.nationalgeographic.com

Even mild or asymptomatic Covid-19 can cause your brain to shrink.

Of the roughly 80 million Americans who’ve gotten COVID-19 so far, about one of every four survivors suffers from impaired cognition, commonly described as brain fog. While this isn’t a formal medical term, says Edward Shorter, a professor of psychiatry at University of Toronto, it has become an umbrella term for describing an array of symptoms such as confusion, word-finding difficulties, short-term memory loss, dizziness, or inability to concentrate.

Patients hospitalized with COVID-19 are almost three times more likely than those not hospitalized to have impaired cognition. But brain scans now show that even a mild case of COVID-19 can shrink part of the brain, causing physical changes equivalent to a decade of aging.

Personally, I haven't gotten it yet, and I'm happy to continue avoiding it and avoiding passing it to others by wearing my mask and washing my hands "religiously."

 

[Rhea]

despite there being zero evidence that masks work.

You keep saying this and it keeps not being true.

You’ve been shown evidence multiple times and you keep repeating this dangerous falsehood. Even after being shown evidence that it is dangerously wrong.

Repeating it does not make it become true.

It is a lie that anarchists have told you. And you keep repeating their lie.

 

[ZiprHead]

FFS, the CDC is extending its mask mandate on public transport into May despite there being zero evidence that masks work.

 

[TSwizzle]

despite there being zero evidence that masks work.

You keep saying this and it keeps not being true.

I keep saying it because it is true.

You’ve been shown evidence multiple times and you keep repeating this dangerous falsehood. Even after being shown evidence that it is dangerously wrong.

I have seen no evidence that mask mandates have any effect on stopping the spread of a virus. These mask mandates are an article of faith.

Repeating it does not make it become true.

Look in the mirror and tell yourself that.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Trump Appointed Federal Judge says mask mandate on planes is out.

The decision Monday by U.S. District Judge Kathryn Kimball Mizelle in Tampa, an appointee of former President Donald Trump, also said the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention improperly failed to justify its decision and did not follow proper rulemaking.

In her 59-page ruling, Mizelle said the only remedy was to vacate the rule entirely across the country because it would be impossible to end it for the limited group of people who objected in the lawsuit.

Failed to justify. Yes... pandemic... what pandemic?!

The mask requirement for travelers was the target of months of lobbying from the airlines, which sought to kill it. The carriers argued that effective air filters on modern planes make transmission of the virus during a flight highly unlikely.

Did they fail to justify that claim?

We have taken two dozen airline high level managers and put them on a plane next to dogs we just had eat several bags of cool ranch Doritos. Let's see how well those filters work at 30,000 ft.

 

[crazyfingers]

The mask requirement for travelers was the target of months of lobbying from the airlines, which sought to kill it. The carriers argued that effective air filters on modern planes make transmission of the virus during a flight highly unlikely.

Did they fail to justify that claim?

We have taken two dozen airline high level managers and put them on a plane next to dogs we just had eat several bags of cool ranch Doritos. Let's see how well those filters work at 30,000 ft.

Unmasked person with covid breathes in my direction. I catch covid because maskes are more effective at keeping the infected from spreading it than keeping the wearer from getting it - even N95's.

The airlines are telling me that they don't want my business. OK. They won't get my business.

 

[TSwizzle]

I think some folks just have a mask fetish. That’s cool, just wear your mask. Or stay home. You have choices.

 

[Trausti]

I think some folks just have a mask fetish. That’s cool, just wear your mask. Or stay home. You have choices.

Rogan called masks MAGA hats for libs.