Cultural appropriation mythicist angry that people have different tastes to her

[Metaphor]

I don't know what it means to respect a culture. The particular example I was given was 'Indian head-dresses on women' as an example of problematic cultural appropriation, presumably because women were forbidden from wearing head-dresses in native American cultures because there were clearly enforced gender roles.

If I have empathy for an oppressed group, does that mean I am required to censure myself so as not to hurt any of their feelings? Ought I betray my own values to align with theirs?

Australian Aborigines have an instrument called a didgeridoo, and women are forbidden to play it in ceremonial contexts. If I had a daughter who wanted to play the didgeridoo, I would not tell her 'no, we need to have empathy for this oppressed group and you playing it would offend them'. That would betray my own values that men and women ought not to be proscribed from activities merely because of their gender.

How is that cultural appropriation?

How is using an instrument with religious significance from a minority ethnic group that I do not belong to 'cultural appropriation'? Are we on the same thread?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

How is that cultural appropriation?

How is using an instrument with religious significance from a minority ethnic group that I do not belong to 'cultural appropriation'? Are we on the same thread?

Yes, we're in the same thread where you are throwing extremist hissy fits.

I was discussing your objection. Your objection is not an objection to cultural appropriation. It's a rejection of sexism. Duh!

 

[Metaphor]

How is using an instrument with religious significance from a minority ethnic group that I do not belong to 'cultural appropriation'? Are we on the same thread?

Yes, we're in the same thread where you are throwing extremist hissy fits.

I was discussing your objection. Your objection is not an objection to cultural appropriation. It's a rejection of sexism. Duh!

I don't object to women wearing head-dresses, even though it ticks all boxes to be called cultural appropriation.

RavenSky named women wearing head-dresses as an example of problematic cultural appropriation. I want to know why she said that.

 

[laughing dog]

And I've already explained why I call them mythicists, even if I accept the misleading quality of the word 'appropriation'. They are mythicists because they wrongly believe cultural appropriation qua cultural appropriation is wrong.

Mythicists are not relevant to the example of cultural appropriation we were discussing.

The point is that there should be no deference to 'sacred' beliefs; the privileging of the 'sacred' does not do humanity any good. You brought up sincere religious/cultural beliefs as something that might be relevant in cases of cultural appropriation, but I don't give those beliefs any special merit.

That is irrelevant - the issue is that it is relevant to the person objecting.

It again also points out the double standards of the mythicists, even though Catholics have been a persecuted minority at various points in history, they're mostly white so the appropriation of their beliefs is fair game. Now I realise that the mythicists don't deny their double standards, they're openly proud of it and defend it.

Catholics are not mostly white nowadays. And Catholics have been a persecuting minority and majority at various points in history. But none of that had anything to do with the issue of cultural appropriation we were discussing.

 

[Toni]

Mythicists are not relevant to the example of cultural appropriation we were discussing.

The point is that there should be no deference to 'sacred' beliefs; the privileging of the 'sacred' does not do humanity any good. You brought up sincere religious/cultural beliefs as something that might be relevant in cases of cultural appropriation, but I don't give those beliefs any special merit.

That is irrelevant - the issue is that it is relevant to the person objecting.

It again also points out the double standards of the mythicists, even though Catholics have been a persecuted minority at various points in history, they're mostly white so the appropriation of their beliefs is fair game. Now I realise that the mythicists don't deny their double standards, they're openly proud of it and defend it.

Catholics are not mostly white nowadays. And Catholics have been a persecuting minority and majority at various points in history. But none of that had anything to do with the issue of cultural appropriation we were discussing.

I am disappointed that you have bought into his invented and self serving terminology.

 

[untermensche]

My culture is the culture that steals from all other cultures.

It's called present day US culture.

Oh bullshit.

The U.S., being a nation of immigrants (traditionally) takes in certain elements of cultures and then naturally enough, those elements are incorporated into facets of the already existing culture. Here in SoCal, one can either go to Taco Bell or if they want, they can go to a truly authentic Mexican place and grab some lingua tacos. And then there's everything in between that. Nothing is "stolen," it's just absorbed and modified, but with the original usually still extant.

You seem to think I believe stealing from other cultures is some crime.

There's nothing wrong with it.

But there is no US culture.

The US is the Borg, a conglomeration of many many cultures.

 

[RavenSky]

But there is no US culture.

The US is the Borg, a conglomeration of many many cultures.

The same can be said for every culture at some point in their evolution

 

[repoman]

I think that if you realize that hypocrisy is on a sliding scale and can't be eliminated and don't care about it, then threads like this are a lot more interesting.

Enjoy appropriation:



But if they did an Ainu (indigenous northern japanese people who the japanese repressed) then that would have more of a tinge of appropriation. Japanese didn't do shit to native americans.

 

[Metaphor]

I am disappointed that you have bought into his invented and self serving terminology.

Of course the terminology is invented; just as somebody invented the term 'cultural appropriation'.

It is of course completely unsurprising that a true-believing cultural appropriation mythicist such as yourself objects to my terminology. People hate being told their religion is nonsense.

 

[Toni]

I think that if you realize that hypocrisy is on a sliding scale and can't be eliminated and don't care about it, then threads like this are a lot more interesting.

Enjoy appropriation:



But if they did an Ainu (indigenous northern japanese people who the japanese repressed) then that would have more of a tinge of appropriation. Japanese didn't do shit to native americans.

Not true. Japanese killed a number of code talkers in WWII and captured and tortured others.

I'm sure that's not what you meant, though.

In this video, Japanese performers are appropriating Native American culture and reducing it to bad stereotypes rather than giving it due respect and appreciation.

 

[laughing dog]

People hate being told their religion is nonsense.

Which explains the intensity of your current tantrum.

 

[Toni]

I am disappointed that you have bought into his invented and self serving terminology.

Of course the terminology is invented; just as somebody invented the term 'cultural appropriation'.

It is of course completely unsurprising that a true-believing cultural appropriation mythicist such as yourself objects to my terminology. People hate being told their religion is nonsense.

And completely unsurprising that you must reduce anything you disagree with to insults and disrespect. The title of your thread applies to you in a bit of unintended irony. Your response to something you disagree with is name calling.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh bullshit.

The U.S., being a nation of immigrants (traditionally) takes in certain elements of cultures and then naturally enough, those elements are incorporated into facets of the already existing culture. Here in SoCal, one can either go to Taco Bell or if they want, they can go to a truly authentic Mexican place and grab some lingua tacos. And then there's everything in between that. Nothing is "stolen," it's just absorbed and modified, but with the original usually still extant.

You seem to think I believe stealing from other cultures is some crime.

There's nothing wrong with it.

But there is no US culture.

The US is the Borg, a conglomeration of many many cultures.

Then why call it stealing?

 

[Metaphor]

People hate being told their religion is nonsense.

Which explains the intensity of your current tantrum.

Failing to believe nonsense and questioning other people's dogmas does not make me a religious believer.

 

[Metaphor]

The title of your thread applies to you in a bit of unintended irony. Your response to something you disagree with is name calling.

No: I am never angry that somebody has different tastes to me. I do not disagree with the author in the OP article because she has different tastes.

What angers me is the mentality, the sheer moral depravity, of someone with different tastes having the fucking hide to tell others their taste is wrong and offensive, that 'fusion' cuisine is wrong and offensive, and that it's her way or the highway.

No, I am angry at people with poor moral character and even poorer reasoning skills, like the author of the article in the OP. I am angry that her mendacious and selfish utterances have at least some cultural currency. She makes the world a worse place to live in with every article she publishes.

 

[Toni]

The title of your thread applies to you in a bit of unintended irony. Your response to something you disagree with is name calling.

No: I am never angry that somebody has different tastes to me. I do not disagree with the author in the OP article because she has different tastes.

What angers me is the mentality, the sheer moral depravity, of someone with different tastes having the fucking hide to tell others their taste is wrong and offensive, that 'fusion' cuisine is wrong and offensive, and that it's her way or the highway.

No, I am angry at people with poor moral character and even poorer reasoning skills, like the author of the article in the OP. I am angry that her mendacious and selfish utterances have at least some cultural currency. She makes the world a worse place to live in with every article she publishes.

And you find no irony in that statement at all.

 

[Metaphor]

No: I am never angry that somebody has different tastes to me. I do not disagree with the author in the OP article because she has different tastes.

What angers me is the mentality, the sheer moral depravity, of someone with different tastes having the fucking hide to tell others their taste is wrong and offensive, that 'fusion' cuisine is wrong and offensive, and that it's her way or the highway.

No, I am angry at people with poor moral character and even poorer reasoning skills, like the author of the article in the OP. I am angry that her mendacious and selfish utterances have at least some cultural currency. She makes the world a worse place to live in with every article she publishes.

And you find no irony in that statement at all.

What irony? Do you know what irony is?

I have not ever told anyone their tastes are wrong or been angry at them for having tastes different to me. Tastes can't be right or wrong.

I have no hesitation in telling people when their reasoning is wrong, and when they make morally bad judgments, like the woman in the OP, who thinks it is morally offensive for her to have to endure the thought of fusion food.

There's a saying: give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile. Well, it's already too late for that. The cultural appropriation mythicists have taken that inch and run a marathon. When somebody can publish such moral dreck as the author in the OP, can be paid for espousing such highfalutin, bombastic, but ultimately empty rantings, and when ordinarily sane people find the need to defend her (#notallmythicists), I despair.

 

[abaddon]

Which explains the intensity of your current tantrum.

Failing to believe nonsense and questioning other people's dogmas does not make me a religious believer.

The title of your thread applies to you in a bit of unintended irony. Your response to something you disagree with is name calling.

No: I am never angry that somebody has different tastes to me. I do not disagree with the author in the OP article because she has different tastes.

What angers me is the mentality, the sheer moral depravity, of someone with different tastes having the fucking hide to tell others their taste is wrong and offensive, that 'fusion' cuisine is wrong and offensive, and that it's her way or the highway.

No, I am angry at people with poor moral character and even poorer reasoning skills, like the author of the article in the OP. I am angry that her mendacious and selfish utterances have at least some cultural currency. She makes the world a worse place to live in with every article she publishes.

But raving looks a lot like dogmatism. CA’s not a myth. If you dislike some people abusing the idea over paltry issues, then reason would require you address that specifically rather than throw a broad net over all possibility that there is CA sometimes and relegating it all to “myth”.

If I put on a bonnet of feathers, sell sweat lodge ceremonies, chant Lakota prayers over my white consumers paying me for this, to the outrage of the Lakota people, that’s cultural appropriation. It doesn’t matter if it’s religious, it’s still an important part of a people’s identity and disrespecting it is taking a big ugly shit on human beings which doesn't jibe well with a rational stance of "live and let live".

So if someone’s whining about a hair-do or some modified cuisine, then why not dispassionately analyze their manipulative rhetoric rather than resort to your own?

 

[Metaphor]

But raving looks a lot like dogmatism. CA’s not a myth. If you dislike some people abusing the idea over paltry issues, then reason would require you address that specifically rather than throw a broad net over all possibility that there is CA sometimes and relegating it all to “myth”.

The myth is that cultural appropriation qua cultural appropriation is automatically bad. As long as this central idea is allowed to go unchallenged, the mythicists will continue their never ending quest to be as selfish, entitled little pricklets as possible.

If I put on a bonnet of feathers, sell sweat lodge ceremonies, chant Lakota prayers over my white consumers paying me for this, to the outrage of the Lakota people, that’s cultural appropriation. It doesn’t matter if it’s religious, it’s still an important part of a people’s identity and disrespecting it is taking a big ugly shit on human beings which doesn't jibe well with a rational stance of "live and let live".

But "live and let live" is a rational stance -- and if people want to pay other people to orchestrate a really bad experience in a sweat lodge, so what? I simply cannot process why people privilege the distress of some people over the feelings of others who are non-violently engaging in an activity.

So if someone’s whining about a hair-do or some modified cuisine, then why not dispassionately analyze their manipulative rhetoric rather than resort to your own?

The whining of the true believers is only possible because they have been allowed to define the parameters of the debate. As soon as they can call something cultural appropriation, it is automatically bad, and no correspondence need be entered into.

There are also the fellow travellers to the true believers -- those people who recognise that the people complaining about white women twerking have a screw loose, yet they reflexively defend the complainants from people willing to attack their idiot beliefs.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

This kinda awesome and adorable. Where did you find this? I want more.

 

[repoman]

That is Momoiro Clover.

Also look up Ladybaby, Dempagumi, Perfume, Death Rabbits. The last is the strangest.

more mature stuff is Band-Maid and the Wagakki Band.

Also this is good "Ｔａｋｅ　Ｍｙ　Ｃｈａｎｃｅ/DOLL＄BOXX"

don't want to link videos and derail anymore.