Elixir
Made in America
Not for you. But I can give you a referral.
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Features
DACA
- Thread starter humbleman
- Start date
Not for you. But I can give you a referral.
LordKiran
Veteran Member
Punishing someone who committed a minor infraction against our nation's laws by sending them to a camp for compulsory labor they are not compensated for is literally something they do in NK. But then tbf I guess NK doesn't have "an immigration problem."
Elixir
Made in America
So would nuking every country from which anyone illegally immigrates. That doesn't make it a good idea.
My idea is a great one. What do you suggest we do?
Elixir
Made in America
According to you.
1) Wake up and realize that current policy is a disaster that is terrorizing some of the country's greatest human resources.
2) Provide a path to citizenship for DACA recipients in a clean Bill, not tied to draconian measures to curtail immigration by people of color.
3) GET THE FUCK OVER IT! Immigrants are not stealing jobs, burdening the welfare system or otherwise impoverishing America - the billionaires who are telling you that are the ones doing it.
Cherry pick your examples.
Then more will come for daca phase 2,3,4, etc.
But most will vote for democrats if they are given citizenship.
Replace those illegal immigrants with legal immigrants, the numbers will be the same and perhaps greater because legal immigrants won't evade paying taxes and millions of illegal immigrants do.
This is a process of deporting an illegal immigrant and bring an immigrant whom in his country has filled the application, has passed thru the process of acceptance, medical records, police records, etc, and admitted legally in the USA.
This should be the best immigration reform, replacing one by the another.
Harry Bosch
Contributor
Does it bother you that everything that you have asserted in this thread has been bullshit! Everything. I'm not going to debate someone who is so ignorant of the facts. Here is an excellent source of non-biased information:
https://www.factcheck.org/
I would ask you to educate yourself. Please go on the site and find facts that support your assertions. You'll quickly find out that "illegals" don't evade their taxes. They pay far more in taxes that they receive. I'm done responding to your posts unless you can support them with evidence and links.
Sure, go to Home Depot and hire illegal immigrants as workers receiving cash only.
Thousands and thousands of illegal immigrants cleaning houses for "cleaning companies" hired with good referrals also accepting cash or checks, but workers receiving cash only.
From my part, I don't care, but this proves your link as a piece of crap.
Elixir
Made in America
Your stupid assertions don't "prove" shit, troll.
Harry Bosch
Contributor
Do you have a link? Or is this just BS?
Elixir
Made in America
I remind you: You are trying to conduct a rational discussion with someone who believes that paraphrasing alt-right propaganda constitutes "proof" of something.
Just sayin' ....
On the one hand you need immigration laws, and you need to enforce them, or you encourage people to break them, which in turn encourages them to break others. They are indeed breaking the law if they break immigration law, so I can see why people want to call them "illegal". That term seems a little harsh, but "undocumented" seems way too weak a term. These are not people who forgot to file papers. They are people who snuck into the country and are living there illegally.
I also understand concerns over vetting people from countries and cultures that may not be compatible with the one they are moving to. But I actually would be more concerned with that for legal rather than illegal immigrants. I'd expect illegal immigrants to want to keep their heads low and so to not cause trouble.
I also understand, in the super polarized USA, why both the Democrats and Republicans suspect the other of wanting to rig the election game by having more or less immigrants. I do find it striking that immigrants are assumed to and often will vote liberal instead of conservative, even when coming from conservative countries. That's a huge failure on the part of Republicans, and it may go the other way if Republicans were pro-immigration.
All of the above said, my own view is that while you need to strongly enforce your immigration laws, you also need to loosen them significantly and take in more immigrants than you are. There is no reason to make legal immigration so difficult and such a long wait, and having it that way only encourages people to go the illegal route. Making legal immigration difficult and at the same time creating a "path to citizenship" for illegal immigrants is a recipe for disaster. There should be one legal easy way to immigrate.
As for DACA, Derec is right when he writes that the parents should have been deported immediately when discovered. These families who entered illegally should not have had the time to put down roots, create families in the US, etc. I agree that the children, if under a certain age, should maybe get a pass, but I see nothing wrong with deporting their parents and do not buckle to the tears of the students in the article in the OP. These parents committed a crime when they came here and have been living essentially as fugitives since. Why should we treat them differently than anybody else who did a crime and is hiding from the law? We throw some people in jail for crimes even though they have children and those kids lose living with their parents. Why shouldn't we deport others?
I also understand concerns over vetting people from countries and cultures that may not be compatible with the one they are moving to. But I actually would be more concerned with that for legal rather than illegal immigrants. I'd expect illegal immigrants to want to keep their heads low and so to not cause trouble.
I also understand, in the super polarized USA, why both the Democrats and Republicans suspect the other of wanting to rig the election game by having more or less immigrants. I do find it striking that immigrants are assumed to and often will vote liberal instead of conservative, even when coming from conservative countries. That's a huge failure on the part of Republicans, and it may go the other way if Republicans were pro-immigration.
All of the above said, my own view is that while you need to strongly enforce your immigration laws, you also need to loosen them significantly and take in more immigrants than you are. There is no reason to make legal immigration so difficult and such a long wait, and having it that way only encourages people to go the illegal route. Making legal immigration difficult and at the same time creating a "path to citizenship" for illegal immigrants is a recipe for disaster. There should be one legal easy way to immigrate.
As for DACA, Derec is right when he writes that the parents should have been deported immediately when discovered. These families who entered illegally should not have had the time to put down roots, create families in the US, etc. I agree that the children, if under a certain age, should maybe get a pass, but I see nothing wrong with deporting their parents and do not buckle to the tears of the students in the article in the OP. These parents committed a crime when they came here and have been living essentially as fugitives since. Why should we treat them differently than anybody else who did a crime and is hiding from the law? We throw some people in jail for crimes even though they have children and those kids lose living with their parents. Why shouldn't we deport others?
Ford
Contributor
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2010
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- Just don't knock on my door on a Saturday Morning
FTFY
Jason Harvestdancer
Contributor
Because he participated in a mental exercise? So did laughing dog and underseer.
I started that thread and kept up with it. It derailed awfully, but I didn't notice him say Hitler did nothing wrong. I explicitly challenged him, and everyone else, to try to defend Hitler (a near impossible task) as an intellectual exercise and he tried. As Jason said, so did others.
Ford
Contributor
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2010
- Messages
- 8,134
- Location
- Freedomland
- Basic Beliefs
- Just don't knock on my door on a Saturday Morning
No, he didn't attempt to tackle the intellectual exercise. He went full Holocaust Denial from the get-go. And that's basically the same as saying Hitler did nothing wrong. Instead of saying "okay, here's Hitler's rationale for rounding up millions of people and executing them" he said "nuh uh, didn't happen." His "defense" was not to accept Hitler's crimes and explain them, but to simply claim that they didn't happen. And as I read it, he was sincere. He wasn't taking on the challenge like it was one side of a debate. He really bought into the idea that Hitler was defensible because the Holocaust is a hoax.
Not the sort of person you can have a rational discussion with, as Elixer pointed out.
Jason Harvestdancer
Contributor
That was his attempted defense. It doesn't mean he believes it. He described himself several times as acting as if he were Hitler's defense attorney. Do you think underseer and laughing dog also believed the defenses they made?
I predicted in that thread that anyone who undertakes that intellectual exercise is put at risk of being accused of believing what they write.
I predicted in that thread that anyone who undertakes that intellectual exercise is put at risk of being accused of believing what they write.
TSwizzle
I am unburdened by what has been.
If the Dems get their way, they will be able to vote citizen or not.