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Data Centers

In the late 80s I lived in thee Idaho Silver Valley in the panhandle. Silver mining. It was super fund cleanup site. The Town of Kellog which had a smelter had its topsoil scraped and put in a berm along the higjhway. Arsenic contamination.

The whole area was contaminated by mining waste.

If as some predict the market falls out for AI, all the data centers will have to be cleaned up. Electronics is toxic waste.

We never learn.
 
Here in my city (Chandler, AZ) there was recently a fight over a data center. Most of the leadership was behind it, but the citizens said "no you fucking won't." One of the leading candidates for mayor ran partially on a "no data centers" platform.

It's not that we're against growth. When I moved in, there was cornfield just around the corner that's now a mall. We've got tech jobs (Intel has a campus here, and we're the original test market for Waymo robo-taxis) but having giant buildings that just suck up power and water and don't provide any jobs is something the residents clearly don't want.
 
I have watch some of the Councils meetings on this.
They voted last week to have a moratorium on data centers.
Is there any of this going on in your area?
The national tread seems to be very negative.
Is this just a “NIMBY” issue or do people actually not want data centers to exist at all? That would seem strange in this modern world. Hope they are storing their printed photos in shoeboxes under their beds, I guess.
The primary issue in Salem is Water. We’re in a drought right now due to zero snow pack in the mountains.
 
Given the choice between data centers and water to drink and grow food it is a difficult decision, but after lengthy thought ad deliberation I think I'll go with drinking water and food.

Our chronic problem is congresses unable to set pragmatic priorities .. Captain Obvious.
 
Golly, why do they always build this stuff near lower income people's homes?
F&*k Elon!!

ETA: When local groups tried to stop expansions, the DOJ said because the US military uses Gork in Iran war it is a National Security thing.
 
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But no. The polling numbers I seen recently has people heavily against them to the tune of about seventy percent. The NIMBY numbers are a bit higher but near them or not, people are heavily opposed.
There is something innately repulsive about them. Hot festering consumptive, relentless intrusion, maybe? Or just the pointless swarms of models falling all over themselves to be most likely to be mistaken for realities …
At some point there will become more information about information, than there is information to have information about.
 
Maybe I'm wrong, but I could see China going gangbusters on data centers going forward while we NIMBYs in the US abolish them. How will our two countries compare in 30 years as a result? Will they have been able to design superior weapons, medicine, space & computer technology (and hot robot chicks) while we're stuck with our crappy obsolete primitive shit? We dropped the ball on nuclear power plants decades ago because of NIMBYism and "being ascared". Are we making a similar mistake with data centers?
 
You do not need multiple massive data centers to use AI to design weapons.

China is authoritarian, What the top CCP leadership decides to do gets done. Little in the way of our political bickering and divisiveness,

Some econoist6s say AI may be a bubble. Back in the 90s it was the .com boom followed by a bust.

AI Overview
Whether artificial intelligence is an economic bubble is heavily debated, with many financial experts, economists, and industry leaders warning of overextended valuations, massive infrastructure costs, and circular investments, while others argue that heavy spending is backed by real corporate earnings and historic adoption rates.

Back in tee 80s the chip boom led to o0ver capitalization by chip makers..

AI Overview
In the mid-1980s, global semiconductor (chip) makers—particularly Japanese giants like NEC Corporation, Toshiba, and Hitachi—mass-invested in massive fabrication plants, creating severe overcapacity. This overcapitalization flooded the market with cheap Dynamic Random-Access Memory (DRAM) chips, crashing prices, crushing U.S. competitors, and triggering a historic industry slump.


AI Overview
In October 1981, facing a brutal national recession and market pressure from Japanese memory chip competitors, Intel CEO Andy Grove introduced the "125% Solution." Instead of layoffs, salaried employees were asked to commit 125% effort—working two extra hours a day without extra pay for six months.
 
Is this just a “NIMBY” issue or do people actually not want data centers to exist at all?
Neither. People were OK with datacentres when there weren't an utterly absurd number of hugely power- and water-hungry ones crammed full of GPUs running Large Language Models that exist ONLY to keep pumping more hot air into the "AI" bubble.

"AI" does nothing that is valuable enough (or within three orders of magnitude of valuable enough) to justify the amount of money and resources that are being pumped into this datacentre construction frenzy. And it is almost certain that it never will.
I'm 50/50 on this statement. I think of the fiber install back in the late 90s. They buried a ton of fiber in to the ground of which some is still not used, but it definitely was a game changer. AI can be that as well, but I don't know whether large data centers or mini AI on the smart phone is the future. My money is on portability, but the question is how long will it take to get there and will these large data centers become like some of the Canals built in the US that closed in 10 or 20 years after opening because trains became a thing or whether they'll be the backbone to real AI (of which we technically aren't even there yet with that yet).

Where I live, electric rates are popping. Our state deregulated and as typical, costs went up, but now they are going up up... though only in a relative sense, still much cheaper than the west coast, but still, Ohio electric rates are going up (water rates went up too a while ago but that was because water use went down) and in a very noticeable way. Data Centers are in the middle of election campaigns right now. In Ohio, you'd think Husted invented the Data Center.
At this point, even the investors don't think the stuff will ever turn a profit; They are running up the price because they believe that when the music stops, they will have been smart enough to grab a seat before there were none left.

Investing in a bubble can make you rich, if you have the testicular fortitude to hang on through the blips, AND the ability to cash out at the top of the curve.

These datacentres are just the visible signs of this aquisitive insanity; They will soak up power and water and land and resources and lives, until the bubble inevitably goes "pop!", and they become derelict shells.
It appears that they are panicking, building out massively so as not to be left behind. As I noted above, this could all become obsolete if the eureka moment occurs and AI becomes portable. Even with perfect AI, the US doesn't need massive farms, they would need individual and portable models in their pocket.

AI is in it infancy, even pre-eBusiness IPO relative wise. There is money in AI, but it hasn't been found yet, mainly because AI isn't AI. It is pre-AI. AI becomes valuable when it can replace labor, not merely kind of assist it.
 
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