Dear iidb: Guy babbling about Christ, evolution, and the big bang.

[bilby]

And what is this obsession that Christians have with sin? Nobody is perfect, but not being perfect doesn't make one a "sinner". People make mistakes, especially when they are young. Most people are not sinners to use the stupid religious word.

Also, the whole thing where Jesus supposedly died for our sins? Yeah, I'm not impressed. First of all, he's eternal so that's not a sacrifice. Secondly, he set up the rules by which he should be sacrificed. Of course it's all bullshit, but the whole thing just isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Yeah, Jesus had a bad weekend for our sins.

And how does that even work? If I am sentenced to hang for murder, can I appeal on the grounds that Jesus already did my death penalty for me?

The idea that responsibility for anything can somehow be transferred to an innocent third party seems beyond crazy to me.

 

[Learner]

And what is this obsession that Christians have with sin? Nobody is perfect, but not being perfect doesn't make one a "sinner". People make mistakes, especially when they are young. Most people are not sinners to use the stupid religious word.

Also, the whole thing where Jesus supposedly died for our sins? Yeah, I'm not impressed. First of all, he's eternal so that's not a sacrifice. Secondly, he set up the rules by which he should be sacrificed. Of course it's all bullshit, but the whole thing just isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Your re not impressed that such a person 'voluntarily allowed' himself to be put through such an ordeal? As a mere human? 'Literally taking it like a man', if you will.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

And what is this obsession that Christians have with sin? Nobody is perfect, but not being perfect doesn't make one a "sinner". People make mistakes, especially when they are young. Most people are not sinners to use the stupid religious word.

Also, the whole thing where Jesus s sense anywayupposedly died for our sins? Yeah, I'm not impressed. First of all, he's eternal so that's not a sacrifice. Secondly, he set up the rules by which he should be sacrificed. Of course it's all bullshit, but the whole thing just isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Your re not impressed that such a person 'voluntarily allowed' himself to be put through such an ordeal? As a mere human? 'Literally taking it like a man', if you will.

He's not only "a mere human", he's both a human and god, according to your theology. None of your shit makes any sense anyway.

 

[Jarhyn]

And what is this obsession that Christians have with sin? Nobody is perfect, but not being perfect doesn't make one a "sinner". People make mistakes, especially when they are young. Most people are not sinners to use the stupid religious word.

Also, the whole thing where Jesus supposedly died for our sins? Yeah, I'm not impressed. First of all, he's eternal so that's not a sacrifice. Secondly, he set up the rules by which he should be sacrificed. Of course it's all bullshit, but the whole thing just isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Yeah, Jesus had a bad weekend for our sins.

And how does that even work? If I am sentenced to hang for murder, can I appeal on the grounds that Jesus already did my death penalty for me?

The idea that responsibility for anything can somehow be transferred to an innocent third party seems beyond crazy to me.

The way I see Christian "forgiveness" is either as a doctrinal corruption or an original philosophical misunderstanding of the concept, and I'm not sure which.

Forgiveness IS an important and central aspect of morality specifically because Christianity is broadly right that we're all at least a little bit bad to one another, if I am in any way right about "from whence ethics comes".

To me, we all "interfere" with one another, and so "all have sinned" is more hyperbolic than purely inaccurate. We just decide on a social level, a threshold, a "floor" under which actions will be accepted.

The closer we rise to this "floor", the more those around us throw us side-eye for being "asshole-ish". But we are expected to forgive one another this much.

That said, above that threshold forgiveness becomes optional and there is an expectation of change. Usually forgiveness is withheld except when the expectation of change is met... but if the change was undertaken for forgiveness rather than the sake of change, it is generally spoiled as "the right thing for the wrong reason", and this is seen as a major red flag about the person in general. Even if forgiveness happens in such a situation, it will not happen to an extent the relationship is restored; it will be "broken" rather than "bitter and broken".

Forgiving yourself is sometimes OK, when you have given up on the relationship where changed for the relationship rather than for the change itself, as is forgiving yourself for things that, frankly, don't actually exceed a reasonable "floor" of badness, but forgiving yourself for things that break through that "floor" into actual badness is bad, unless you seek change.

Forgiving others is generally better for your health, but a doctrine that tells everyone to just feel forgiven without doing that work is an insane and broken philosophy.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

And what is this obsession that Christians have with sin? Nobody is perfect, but not being perfect doesn't make one a "sinner". People make mistakes, especially when they are young. Most people are not sinners to use the stupid religious word.

Also, the whole thing where Jesus supposedly died for our sins? Yeah, I'm not impressed. First of all, he's eternal so that's not a sacrifice. Secondly, he set up the rules by which he should be sacrificed. Of course it's all bullshit, but the whole thing just isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Yeah, Jesus had a bad weekend for our sins.

And how does that even work? If I am sentenced to hang for murder, can I appeal on the grounds that Jesus already did my death penalty for me?

The idea that responsibility for anything can somehow be transferred to an innocent third party seems beyond crazy to me.

Forgiving others is generally better for your health, but a doctrine that tells everyone to just feel forgiven without doing that work is an insane and broken philosophy.

It is generally better, but at the same time I wouldn't blame someone for not forgiving depending on the severity of the violation. And it's not really my business if someone decides not to.

 

[Jarhyn]

And what is this obsession that Christians have with sin? Nobody is perfect, but not being perfect doesn't make one a "sinner". People make mistakes, especially when they are young. Most people are not sinners to use the stupid religious word.

Also, the whole thing where Jesus supposedly died for our sins? Yeah, I'm not impressed. First of all, he's eternal so that's not a sacrifice. Secondly, he set up the rules by which he should be sacrificed. Of course it's all bullshit, but the whole thing just isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Yeah, Jesus had a bad weekend for our sins.

And how does that even work? If I am sentenced to hang for murder, can I appeal on the grounds that Jesus already did my death penalty for me?

The idea that responsibility for anything can somehow be transferred to an innocent third party seems beyond crazy to me.

Forgiving others is generally better for your health, but a doctrine that tells everyone to just feel forgiven without doing that work is an insane and broken philosophy.

It is generally better, but at the same time I wouldn't blame someone for not forgiving depending on the severity of the violation.

I mean, I get that and even describe the reasons for it further down-post:

The closer we rise to this "floor", the more those around us throw us side-eye for being "asshole-ish". But we are expected to forgive one another this much.

That said, above that threshold forgiveness becomes optional and there is an expectation of change. Usually forgiveness is withheld except when the expectation of change is met... but if the change was undertaken for forgiveness rather than the sake of change, it is generally spoiled as "the right thing for the wrong reason", and this is seen as a major red flag about the person in general. Even if forgiveness happens in such a situation, it will not happen to an extent the relationship is restored; it will be "broken" rather than "bitter and broken".

 

[Learner]

And what is this obsession that Christians have with sin? Nobody is perfect, but not being perfect doesn't make one a "sinner". People make mistakes, especially when they are young. Most people are not sinners to use the stupid religious word.

Also, the whole thing where Jesus s sense anywayupposedly died for our sins? Yeah, I'm not impressed. First of all, he's eternal so that's not a sacrifice. Secondly, he set up the rules by which he should be sacrificed. Of course it's all bullshit, but the whole thing just isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Your re not impressed that such a person 'voluntarily allowed' himself to be put through such an ordeal? As a mere human? 'Literally taking it like a man', if you will.

He's not only "a mere human", he's both a human and god, according to your theology. None of your shit makes any sense anyway.

According to the theology...
..he humbled himself i.e. lowered himself from God level to a physical human etc..

It won't make sense to you obviously... because the concept is foreign to you. This theology will escape you.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

And what is this obsession that Christians have with sin? Nobody is perfect, but not being perfect doesn't make one a "sinner". People make mistakes, especially when they are young. Most people are not sinners to use the stupid religious word.

Also, the whole thing where Jesus s sense anywayupposedly died for our sins? Yeah, I'm not impressed. First of all, he's eternal so that's not a sacrifice. Secondly, he set up the rules by which he should be sacrificed. Of course it's all bullshit, but the whole thing just isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Your re not impressed that such a person 'voluntarily allowed' himself to be put through such an ordeal? As a mere human? 'Literally taking it like a man', if you will.

He's not only "a mere human", he's both a human and god, according to your theology. None of your shit makes any sense anyway.

According to the theology...
..he humbled himself i.e. lowered himself from God level to a physical human etc..

It won't make sense to you obviously... because the concept is foreign to you. This theology will escape you.

Wow! He lowered himsef to the standard of the standards he created. Congrats, I guess.

 

[Elixir]

Wow! He lowered himsef to the standard of the standards he created. Congrats, I guess.

Much appreciated. Be sure to remind Pete when you meet him.
-JC

 

[southernhybrid]

And what is this obsession that Christians have with sin? Nobody is perfect, but not being perfect doesn't make one a "sinner". People make mistakes, especially when they are young. Most people are not sinners to use the stupid religious word.

Also, the whole thing where Jesus s sense anywayupposedly died for our sins? Yeah, I'm not impressed. First of all, he's eternal so that's not a sacrifice. Secondly, he set up the rules by which he should be sacrificed. Of course it's all bullshit, but the whole thing just isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Your re not impressed that such a person 'voluntarily allowed' himself to be put through such an ordeal? As a mere human? 'Literally taking it like a man', if you will.

He's not only "a mere human", he's both a human and god, according to your theology. None of your shit makes any sense anyway.

According to the theology...
..he humbled himself i.e. lowered himself from God level to a physical human etc..

It won't make sense to you obviously... because the concept is foreign to you. This theology will escape you.

No. The concept is mythology and that's the part that you don't understand. Jesus could be a cool dude in some ways, but. he was just some guy. Okay, maybe some charismatic, influential guy who was around 2000 years ago or so, who did sometimes encourage people to do some good things like help the poor, forgive and forget and all that jazz, but he was not a supernatural being, as there is no evidence that such beings exist or have existed. Just like many other celebrities there were claims of seeing him after he died, assuming he was actually crucified, but people like to make up stuff and people don't always like to hear the truth. Still, if believing in fairy tales makes you a better person, who am I to judge? Sadly, not all Christians are good people, but since they think all they have to do is ask their super power for forgiveness, I guess they lack incentive to be good people. One doesn't need a god or mythology to be a good person. Being a good person is emotionally rewarding, on its own, assuming you're not a psychopath. It's not what one believes, it's one's moral character that is important.

Also, how did prosperity gospel come about when Jesus supposedly said, "It is harder for a rich man to enter heaven than it is for a camel to go through the eye of a needle? Why did Christians engage in religious wars? I know some good Christians but sadly, I've probably known more bad ones, especially the evangelicals who are still supporting the psychopathic narcissist in charge of the US. What's wrong with them?

You seem like a decent person, Learner, but your beliefs are based on mythology, which is something that has lured. humans in for at least many thousands of years.

 

[bilby]

And what is this obsession that Christians have with sin? Nobody is perfect, but not being perfect doesn't make one a "sinner". People make mistakes, especially when they are young. Most people are not sinners to use the stupid religious word.

Also, the whole thing where Jesus supposedly died for our sins? Yeah, I'm not impressed. First of all, he's eternal so that's not a sacrifice. Secondly, he set up the rules by which he should be sacrificed. Of course it's all bullshit, but the whole thing just isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Your re not impressed that such a person 'voluntarily allowed' himself to be put through such an ordeal? As a mere human? 'Literally taking it like a man', if you will.

I would be impressed, if I thought it was more than just a story, and if I could see a link to anyone actually being saved from a genuine hazard; But I wouldn't come anywhere close to being as impressed as I am with non-divine humans who regularly sacrifice their lifes and health for other people.

Jesus as described in the gospels is a less impressive saviour than any firefighter. And firefighters are known for certain not to be just characters from a story.

 

[steve_bank]

We know the George Washington story of telling the truth about chopping down a tree as a kid was a political myth.

The Lincoln 'honest Abe' myth was a political fabrication.

The idea that the gospels represent factual vents of a single person does not hold up. Especially the supernatural.

Who knows, maybe Jesus was into pain. Maybe he was delusional with visions of grandeur.

 

[Learner]

And what is this obsession that Christians have with sin? Nobody is perfect, but not being perfect doesn't make one a "sinner". People make mistakes, especially when they are young. Most people are not sinners to use the stupid religious word.

Also, the whole thing where Jesus supposedly died for our sins? Yeah, I'm not impressed. First of all, he's eternal so that's not a sacrifice. Secondly, he set up the rules by which he should be sacrificed. Of course it's all bullshit, but the whole thing just isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Your re not impressed that such a person 'voluntarily allowed' himself to be put through such an ordeal? As a mere human? 'Literally taking it like a man', if you will.

I would be impressed, if I thought it was more than just a story, and if I could see a link to anyone actually being saved from a genuine hazard; But I wouldn't come anywhere close to being as impressed as I am with non-divine humans who regularly sacrifice their lifes and health for other people.

I take it then, that if weren't a story you'd be impressed?

The poster I previously responded to regarding this, was speaking 'hypothetically' even though he expressed that the theology didn't make sense to him. Your reply however is in terms of "made-up" stories,and not in terms 'of hypothetically' speaking, which of course will certainly not impress you, nor me.

Some atheists in discussions like this, switch back and forth, just for the sake of debating.

Jesus as described in the gospels is a less impressive saviour than any firefighter. And firefighters are known for certain not to be just characters from a story.

As irony would have it:

These Firemen also seem impressed with Jesus.

Encouraging Firefighters to Live Their Lives for Jesus Christ | Firefighters for Christ International

Explore opportunities to connect with a global fire service community who live out and share their faith in Jesus Christ. Learn about the hope Jesus …

firefightersforchrist.org

Navigators First Responder Ministry

Navigators First Responder Ministry serves within our nation’s police, fire, and emergency medical services (EMS) agencies.

www.navigators.org

Being impressed all around. Jesus and firemen.

 

[steve_bank]

A lot of Christians are impressed with Trump and think he was sent by god to help them.

All of it is based n a scant number of sayings of somebody called Jesus and claims of supernatural powers In the short gospels.

Plus 2000 years of interpretations and inventions.

A talisman is an object—such as a carved stone, ring, or inscribed metal—believed to hold magical powers that bring good fortune, attract specific energies, or grant power to the bearer.

If you are afraid of the dark carry a talisman that you think protects you from the unseen. A cross or crucifix is a Christian talisman.

Believing Jesus protects you as a firefighter is what religion is about. Alleviating fear.


Christianity is one of a numer of mythologies past and present.

 

[bilby]

And what is this obsession that Christians have with sin? Nobody is perfect, but not being perfect doesn't make one a "sinner". People make mistakes, especially when they are young. Most people are not sinners to use the stupid religious word.

Also, the whole thing where Jesus supposedly died for our sins? Yeah, I'm not impressed. First of all, he's eternal so that's not a sacrifice. Secondly, he set up the rules by which he should be sacrificed. Of course it's all bullshit, but the whole thing just isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Your re not impressed that such a person 'voluntarily allowed' himself to be put through such an ordeal? As a mere human? 'Literally taking it like a man', if you will.

I would be impressed, if I thought it was more than just a story, and if I could see a link to anyone actually being saved from a genuine hazard; But I wouldn't come anywhere close to being as impressed as I am with non-divine humans who regularly sacrifice their lifes and health for other people.

I take it then, that if weren't a story you'd be impressed?

If I could also see a link to anyone actually being saved from a genuine hazard, yes.

Do you have some kind of disability that prevents you from reading the parts of other people's posts that you would prefer they hadn't written?

The poster I previously responded to regarding this, was speaking 'hypothetically' even though he expressed that the theology didn't make sense to him. Your reply however is in terms of "made-up" stories,and not in terms 'of hypothetically' speaking, which of course will certainly not impress you, nor me.

Only the part of my reply that you didn't choose to ignore fits that description.

Some atheists in discussions like this, switch back and forth, just for the sake of debating.

Some idiots in discussions like this pretend that a part of someone's post is effectively the entirety of that person's position, just for the sake of not engaging in honest debate at all.

Jesus as described in the gospels is a less impressive saviour than any firefighter. And firefighters are known for certain not to be just characters from a story.

As irony would have it:

These Firemen also seem impressed with Jesus.

Encouraging Firefighters to Live Their Lives for Jesus Christ | Firefighters for Christ International

Explore opportunities to connect with a global fire service community who live out and share their faith in Jesus Christ. Learn about the hope Jesus …

firefightersforchrist.org

Navigators First Responder Ministry

Navigators First Responder Ministry serves within our nation’s police, fire, and emergency medical services (EMS) agencies.

www.navigators.org

Being impressed all around. Jesus and firemen.

So what? Firemen are impressive because they save lives. Jesus is supposed to have saved something; But what he saved and how is utterly mysterious.

Leave aside the question of what; My concern here is HOW.

A firefighter saves someone by running into a burning building, and physically carrying that person out. The firefighter tries hia best not to die, but is prepared to risk death in order to save others.

Jesus got nailed to a cross by some Romans. How does that help anyone? Jesus doesn't need not to die, because he will be walking around in a few days as though it had never happened. How does that help anyone but Jesus himself?

And why do you think that the nobility and selfless sacrifice of firefighters as a class in any way justifies your smug insinuation that because some subset of firefighters are also Christians, I should agree with that subset about how great Jesus is?

And why do you imagine anyone with a brain would not be disgusted at the shameful attempts by vacuous religionists, who have never saved a solitary life, to bask in the unearned reflection of the respect firefighters risk their very lives to earn?

 

[GenesisNemesis]

There are also religious firefighters who aren't Christian. Of course, a lot of Christians seem to think the only religious people who exist are Christian. I forgot, and they'll claim atheism is a religion, while simultaneously claiming atheists are secret Christians.