Debt Ceiling Calamity VI - This Time It's Personal (Thanks Georgia, Biden's not agenda)

[Jimmy Higgins]

Countries across the globe have all sorts of traditions. Fun ones, somber ones, and in America's case self-inflicted gunshot wound ones. The US has this thing called a debt ceiling, which means the US Government can not borrow any more than that amount of money. Most countries don't have this sort of thing because it is stupid. Sure, it sounds good in theory, but when the US Government needed to borrow shit tons of cash in the Great Recession and the Pandemic Economic Freeze... having limits isn't a great idea as moments occur when something is needed immediately, not once a deal can be struck.

Debt Ceiling Calamities typically come in two flavors.

1) GOP cuts taxes growing the deficit, the Dems are like "Dude what?" You made the deficit go higher.
2) Democrats in charge.

Generally the parties make it work after lots of, at times, ridiculous political posturing. And the GOP is making with that at the moment.

And talk about thanks to Georgia for the two very tight victories in the Senate. Imagine Biden and his infrastructure bill... a $100 billion over 10 years plan agreed to because McConnell is in charge. Forget about a deal on the Debt Ceiling... or SCOTUS nominations. Under Trump, $7 trillion was added to the debt by the Government (I don't recall complaints from the GOP). The GOP rarely wins in a Government shutdown. The Democrat solution is to ignore it for a year. FUCK! Well mainly because getting rid of it would never happen with the GOP, because the GOP has almost completely run out of leverage.

So we are left with the Dems still needing GOP votes... and seeing what might be the final reason to not keep the filibuster. I swear, the GOP is just daring the Dems to do it so they can pass anti-abortion legislation the next time in charge.

 

[ZiprHead]

See Jude Waninski's Two Santa Claus theory.

Two Santa Clauses or How The Republican Party Has Conned America for Thirty Years

 

[Swammerdami]

The Party of Humans needs to play hardball like the Party of Liars does. The Senate Parliamentarian is causing trouble? Replace her! If the GOP felt it necessary there's no doubt they'd appoint Don Junior, or whoever, to the Parliamentarian spot. Appoint someone who will play ball for the Human team.

To implement what's required, might the Ds need to make some "offers that cannot be refused"? Do it! This is no time to be squeamish: the stakes are too high.

 

[Derec]

The Party of Humans needs to play hardball like the Party of Liars does. The Senate Parliamentarian is causing trouble? Replace her!

And then Biden administration is no better than Trump's. The Parliamentarian is right. Green cards for 8 million illegals are not a "budget issue" just like child tax credit is not infrastructure.

If the GOP felt it necessary there's no doubt they'd appoint Don Junior, or whoever, to the Parliamentarian spot. Appoint someone who will play ball for the Human team.

Human team? So everybody who is opposed to the current Dem agenda (and the Dem party has slid very far leftward since 2016!) is subhuman or something?

To implement what's required, might the Ds need to make some "offers that cannot be refused"? Do it! This is no time to be squeamish: the stakes are too high.

Time to break out mob tactics then.

 

[Swammerdami]

And then Biden administration is no better than Trump's. The Parliamentarian is right. Green cards for 8 million illegals are not a "budget issue" just like child tax credit is not infrastructure.

The thread is about the debt ceiling, not "infrastructure" or "illegals" or whatever you're still babbling about. We need 51 votes to abolish the insane debt ceiling forever. If the Senate Parliamentarian stands in the way, replace her. (If you don't understand why the debt ceiling is insane, start a new thread.)

Human team? So everybody who is opposed to the current Dem agenda (and the Dem party has slid very far leftward since 2016!) is subhuman or something?

Wrong again. There are plenty of centrists and conservatives who are respectable members of the human race. It's not Conservatism which has turned the GOP into a despicable terrorist organization, but Stupidism. Clarification: It's not all the leaders and elected officials of the GOP who are stupid — at least half of them have 3-digit IQs. Rather "Stupidism" refers to the GOP's encouragement of and pandering to American stupidity. It's those who support Trump and the GOP more generally — whether at the ballot box, message boards, or in insurrection — who have been turned stupid deliberately by lies from Hannity, Jones, Trump, etc.

Are some supporters of the Democratic Party also stupid? You betcha! But the Democratic agenda is not based on hatred and greed and deliberate lying. Democratic agenda, whether wise or not, are intended to improve the lives of Americans and humans more generally. GOP agenda, on the other hand, offer nothing positive but are solely directed at increasing the wealth of the already-rich, and degrading the lives of ordinary Americans in hopes they will vote against Democratic incumbents in 2022.

As for the leftward shift since 2016, you have only Donald Trump and others from the Party of Lies, Greed and Hatred to thank (or blame) for that. Human Americans have learned that political compromise is now meaningless and that "Republican" proposals are always cynical self-serving lies. With the GOP openly admitting it will use every trick, legal or not, to steal future elections, human Americans are naturally eager to achieve goals during the 117th Congress, since this is possibly the last Congress to be elected by a reasonably fair process.

 

[lpetrich]

Opinion | Two Santa Clauses or How The Republican Party Has Conned America for Thirty Years | Thom Hartmann from 2009

Lower taxes and plenty of spending, running up big deficits, while getting all righteous about the evils of deficit spending when it's the Democrats that do it.


Democrats face GOP blockage on raising debt ceiling as time is running out - CNNPolitics

Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen had a clear and dire message for Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell: The US economy, still emerging from a pandemic-driven economic collapse, can't afford a self-inflicted catastrophe.

The message about the repercussions of the first US default in history wasn't framed through a political lens, or even an attempt at persuasion, according to multiple people familiar with the arranged August 14 call. It was a concise road map of the potential devastation that loomed in the coming weeks without congressional action.

McConnell's response was similarly to the point, and didn't diverge from his repeated public statements on the looming need for a debt ceiling increase.

Democrats were on their own.

...
The private call served to underscore a public reality: Washington is careening towards a debt ceiling debacle that would be catastrophic for Wall Street and Main Street alike. At stake is far more than political positioning or gamesmanship. Federal payment to millions, from government workers to Social Security and Medicaid recipients, would be halted. Military salaries would be frozen. A self-inflicted credit crisis would likely take hold, with increased borrowing costs rippling throughout sectors.

Going through what the US has gone through in previous shutdowns, with the additional possibility of defaulting on the national debt.

 

[lpetrich]

 Government shutdowns in the United States

What stays open

• "Emergency personnel" continue to be employed, including the active duty (Title 10) military, federal law enforcement agents, doctors and nurses working in federal hospitals, and air traffic controllers.[20]
• Members of Congress continue to be paid, because their pay cannot be altered except by direct law.[21]
• Mail delivery is not affected as it is self-funded and the funds are not appropriated by Congress.[22]
• Sometimes the Washington, D.C. municipal government remains open. For example, during the 2013 shutdown, the city remained open because mayor Vincent C. Gray declared the entire municipal government to be essential.[23]

What shuts down

• For the Department of Defense, at least half of the civilian workforce, and the full-time, dual-status military technicians in the US National Guard and traditional Guardsmen (those on Title 32 status) are furloughed and not paid while the shutdown is in effect.[24][25]
• Programs that are funded by laws other than annual appropriations acts (like Social Security) may also be affected by a funding gap, if program execution relies on activities that receive annually appropriated funding.[10]
• Sometimes parts of the Washington, D.C. municipal government shut down, closing schools and suspending utilities such as garbage collection.[26]

 List of United States federal funding gaps

1. 1976 Sep 30 - Oct 11 (12)
2. 1977 Sep 30 - Oct 13 (14)
3. 1977 Oct 31 - Nov 9 (10)
4. 1977 Nov 30 - Dec 9 (10)
5. 1978 Sep 30 - Oct 18 (19)
6. 1979 Sep 30 - Oct 12 (13)
7. 1980 May 1 (1) -- FTC, 1.6 K emps, $700 K
8. 1981 Nov 20 - 23 (4) -- all?, 241 K emps, $80 - 90 M
9. 1982 Sep 30 - Oct 2 (3)
10. 1982 Dec 17 - 21 (5)
11. 1983 Nov 10 - 14 (5)
12. 1984 Sep 30 - Oct 3 (4)
13. 1984 Oct 3 - 5 (3) -- all?, 500K emps, $65 M
14. 1986 Oct 16 - 18 (3) -- all, 500K emps, $62.2 M
15. 1987 Dec 18 - 20 (3)
16. 1990 Oct 5 - 9 (5) -- all, 2.8 K emps, $2.57 M
17. 1995 Nov 13 - 19 (7) -- some, 800 K emps, (included in next entry)
18. 1995 Dec 15 - 1996 Jan 6 (21) -- some, 284 K emps, $400 M
19. 2013 Oct 1 - 17 (17) -- all, 800 K emps, $2.1 B
20. 2018 Jan 20 - 22 (3) -- all, 693 K emps
21. 2018 Feb 9 (1)
22. 2018 Dec 22 - 2019 Jan 25 (35) -- some, 380 K emps, $5 B
23. 2020 Oct 1 (1)
24. 2020 Dec 22 (1)

date(s), number of days -- agencies, employees furloughed, cost

 

[lpetrich]

Back to that CNN article.

After weeks of calling explicitly for a "bipartisan" vote to remove the default threat, Democratic leaders announced Monday they would tie a debt limit suspension to a must-pass government funding bill slated for House vote this week.

Democrats don't necessarily think McConnell is bluffing, but they're not willing to let him dictate the terms of what happens next, according to officials and congressional aides.

Just as well. If the Republicans won't cooperate, then the Democrats should leave them behind.

I'd also like to see the Democrats make most Federal agencies run on autopilot if they don't get new budgets. They would have enough money for day-to-day operations, even if not for anything new that Congress might want to decide on.

"The US has always paid its bills on time, but the overwhelming consensus among economists and Treasury officials of both parties is that failing to raise the debt limit would produce widespread economic catastrophe," Yellen wrote this weekend in the Wall Street Journal.

There is a now a clear risk that Congress fails to raise the federal borrowing limit before the US Treasury runs out of cash and accounting maneuvers, according to lawmakers and administration officials involved in the process.

It's a game that has been played several times over the course of the last decade, rattling markets and public confidence and at one point even leading to a downgrade of the US sovereign credit rating by one credit rating firm in 2011. Further downgrades would raise the cost of borrowing -- making it, ironically, that much more expensive to pay down America's mountain of debt.

Yet lawmakers have always found a way to address the issue before an actual technical default on its legal obligations, an unthinkable scenario for the world's only superpower and largest economy.

Seems like a game of chicken.

 

[Swammerdami]

Maybe it's time to dust off the platinum coin solution to this Republican extortion.

Remember that? When the GOP wanted to shut down the entire Obama government, there were proposals that Treasury mint a trillion-dollar platinum coin. It would deposit the coin at the Fed and take in return, perhaps 200,000 cases of Benjamins, $5 million per case.

No Congressional consent required. No debt increase: the coin is ordinary fiat money with seignorage fee. Supposedly platinum is the choice because gold and silver coins are already regulated. Krugman, among other, supported the idea.

The Obama Administration ultimately rejected the idea: they wanted to stick to "norms." But sticking to norms with the present GOP has no meaning except to play sucker or in a skit of The Onion comedy.

 

[ZiprHead]

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/ycGglq7sSCY[/YOUTUBE]

 

[ZiprHead]

The GOP used a Two Santa Clauses tactic to con America for nearly 40 years
This scam has been killing wages and enriching billionaires for decades

Here’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:

First, when Republicans control the federal government, and particularly the White House, spend money like a drunken sailor and run up the US debt as far and as fast as possible. This produces three results – it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy, it raises the debt dramatically, and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Claus.”

Second, when a Democrat is in the White House, scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” This will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus.

Think back to Ronald Reagan, who more than tripled the US debt from a mere $800 billion to $2.6 trillion in his 8 years. That spending produced a massive stimulus to the economy, and the biggest non-wartime increase in the debt in history. Nary a peep from Republicans about that 218% increase in our debt; they were just fine with it.

And then along came Bill Clinton. The screams and squeals from the GOP about the “unsustainable debt” of nearly $3 trillion were loud, constant, and echoed incessantly by media from CBS to NPR. Newt Gingrich rode the wave of “unsustainable debt” hysteria into power, as the GOP took control of the House for the first time lasting more than a term since 1930, even though the increase in our national debt under Clinton was only about 37%.

---

Now we’re back to a Republican president, and once again deficits be damned. Between their tax cut and the nearly-trillion dollar spending increase passed on February 8th, in the first year-and-a-month of Trump’s administration they’ve spent more stimulating the economy (and driving up debt by more than $2 trillion, when you include interest) than the entire Obama presidency.

---

Republican strategist Jude Wanniski first proposed his Two Santa Clauses strategy in 1974, when Richard Nixon resigned in disgrace and the future of the Republican Party was so dim that books and articles were widely suggesting the GOP was about to go the way of the Whigs. There was genuine despair across the Party, particularly when Jerry Ford began stumbling as he climbed the steps to Air Force One and couldn’t even beat an unknown peanut farmer from rural Georgia for the presidency.

Wanniski was tired of the GOP failing to win elections. And, he reasoned, it was happening because the Democrats had been viewed since the New Deal as the Santa Claus party (taking care of people’s needs and the General Welfare), while the GOP, opposing everything from Social Security to Medicare to unemployment insurance, was widely seen as the party of Scrooge.

 

[laughing dog]

Call the Republican's bluff. Let them shoulder most of the blame for any negative consequences.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Call the Republican's bluff. Let them shoulder most of the blame for any negative consequences.

The republicans are the minority party. It's very thin, but non the less true. I think that the public will blame the dems. We need to pass the budget. We have enough headwinds going against us, we need to pass the budget.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Call the Republican's bluff. Let them shoulder most of the blame for any negative consequences.

The republicans are the minority party. It's very thin, but non the less true. I think that the public will blame the dems. We need to pass the budget. We have enough headwinds going against us, we need to pass the budget.

Certainly do need to do that. Don't we need 10 GOP votes though to raise (eliminate?) the debt-ceiling?

 

[Elixir]

Call the Republican's bluff. Let them shoulder most of the blame for any negative consequences.

The republicans are the minority party. It's very thin, but non the less true. I think that the public will blame the dems. We need to pass the budget. We have enough headwinds going against us, we need to pass the budget.

Certainly do need to do that. Don't we need 10 GOP votes though to raise (eliminate?) the debt-ceiling?

The Reps will cave in the end, kicking and screaming about Democrats' irresponsibility and claiming to be victims of their tyrannical rule.
Because if they don't cave, there will be a lot of hurt for all, and Republicans will take the blame. This is all theater.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Certainly do need to do that. Don't we need 10 GOP votes though to raise (eliminate?) the debt-ceiling?

The Reps will cave in the end, kicking and screaming about Democrats' irresponsibility and claiming to be victims of their tyrannical rule.
Because if they don't cave, there will be a lot of hurt for all, and Republicans will take the blame. This is all theater.

I don’t know. They continue to impress me with how far they are willing to go, how much damage they are willing to do.
If they are willing to brush aside an attack on the transfer of power, why not this now? Sure it was foolish when their boy was in office. But this time they can sit back and say, see, this is what you get when the Dems are in charge. I don’t know that McConnell was bluffing when he said the Dems would have to go it alone.

 

[Swammerdami]

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/ycGglq7sSCY[/YOUTUBE]

Shame ZiprHead! That video is from 2017. Surely you understand that, just as pre-Copernican European thinkers thought the laws of motion differed between Heaven and Earth, so an Administration with an "(R)" affixed is by definition the Work of God Almighty, and by "(D)", authomatically that of the Devil Incarnate. At least in the thinking of Mitch McConnell, and others of that ilk.

Apology for the super-large font. I apologize to Leader McConnell for ALMOST calling him "Moscow Mitch and a traitor." If I'd done so I'd be imitating those who speak of "Corporal Rashida" and so on. The Trumpist ilk is happy with their "Pocahontas", "Corporal Rashida", "Sleepy Joe", "Benghazi Monica-cuckoldee". By angrily pounding out "Moscow Mitch" in retaliation, I let that ilk play "See? Same-same." It's inconsiderate of me to bang out stupidities like "Moscow Mitch" and I apologize again. But I'll repeat the charge of "treason" in that Leader McConnell abets enemies; and weakens the American common people with his evil/greedy positions that defy citizen preference AND economic (and other scientific) predictions AND defeat democratic (small-d) governance.

 

[Swammerdami]

So the QOP under McConnell "filibustered" a Keep-the-government-open bill. They'd be willing to keep it open for one week, but then would shut it down anyway when the debt ceiling is breached in early October. About this, the Treasury Secretary warned:

The stakes are extremely high. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen called on Congress to raise the debt ceiling in a recent Wall Street Journal op-ed, warning that if the US defaults on its debt, it "could trigger a spike in interest rates, a steep drop in stock prices and other financial turmoil."

I see no problem with the debt ceiling. Just start minting the frigging Trillion-dollar coins! (For those who call this inflationary, I reply that Treasury will redeem those coins as soon as voters stop sending traitors and financial terrorists to Capitol Hill.)

I'd also like the Senate Parliamentarian replaced. Finally, since the Koch-sucking D's, Manchin and Sinema have in effect joined the QOP party. I'd like Texas and Florida to be declared in rebellion; and for Pelosi and Harris to dismiss all Congresspeople from states certified by Potus to be in rebellion.

Is this "playing hardball"? You betcha! The peril is much greater than many realize. There will be a Civil War. Let it start while the QOP does not yet have its finger on the Nuclear Button.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

GOP/Dems: Road trip! Let's go to Florida!!!
*get on bus, heading to Florida*
Bus Driver: Alright everyone, looks like we'll need to stop for gas in a half hour, so you can stretch your legs.
GOP: What? No! We didn't approve getting more gas.
Dems: What?! How are we supposed to get to Florida if we don't get more gas.
GOP: We stand firm, no more gas.
Bus Driver: We are 15 minutes from the Plaza. Please make up your mind.
Dems: You signed off on us going to Florida. You agreed to it. You can't just say no more gas. You need that in order to get to Florida. That implicitly implies you supported getting gas.
GOP: We see this as nothing but a power grab.
Bus Driver: We are about to pass the Plaza.
Dem: This is insane.
GOP: We would support getting gas if you don't go anywhere while we are in Florida.
Dem: That is the whole point of going to Florida.
*bus goes past the Plaza*
Bus Driver: *sigh* Well, if I slow down a little, we have enough gas to get us another 20 miles after the plaza.
*bus runs out of gas*

*starts getting hot on the bus*

*one week passes*

Dems: Can we at least get off the bus.
GOP: That wasn't part of the deal.

*two weeks pass*

GOP: Okay, you guys can get us some gas.

 

[barbos]

Why not let republicans have it? Instead of social security checks send letters explaining why government can't send money.