Dem Post Mortem

[Jarhyn]

Gay marriage is alive today in the US because of the courts not legislation.

So, because legislatures failed to legislate in a betrayal of progressive interests, they passed the buck inappropriately to the courts to manage.

Brown v Board of Education, Roe v Wade, Griswold v Connecticut, ... been this way for almost a century.

And whose fucking fault is it?!?

Progressives demand legislation and last I knew, the whole failure Roe is going to come down to the failure of Congress to act, because of those same mealy assholes who refused to do anything about the filibuster.

Generations have been ignored, left unheard, and the fact is that the election was an opportunity to apologize, make nice, and say "I guess we need to listen to progressives".

That didn't happen and the dems lost an important election, and the lack of action previously came and bit them in the ass because the Dems have no fucking spine and refused a spine transplant.

No amount of excuses will change the fact that if Hillary had offered the Sanders campaign all the decorum and fair play they deserved and 'celebrated the process' rather than attempting to shut him out, she would have won the primary still, AND won the election.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Well, we saw all of the progressiveness the Democrats flushed into the system after W SCOTUS beat Gore and Trump Putin beat Clinton. ???

FIFY

The fact is that time and again, democrats betray progressives.

How many judicial nominees from Democrats have betrayed progressives? Which party's nominees gutted the Voting Rights Act, gave us Citizens United, ended Roe v Wade, took out Chevron, gave the US President near unchecked immunity..

As a result, the narrative that both parties are the same reigns supreme and that it's pointless to even try and yes, the fact is, at some point people are going to be willing to try anything to wake up their representatives who use secure districts to seat assholes like Pelosi.

"Assholes like Pelosi" got ACA passed in Congress which helped insure millions of uninsured Americans.

For decades, progressives asked for a seat.

For decades, it has been "It's a private organization" and "he's not a real Democrat" and milquetoast rolling-over for the fascists like good little controlled opposition.

Funny, people that consider themselves progressives and didn't vote for Clinton or Harris helped the Fascist Populists. Ironic. I hope they enjoy their view from the pedestals. Because their lack of pragmatism has fucked our country about as much as the GOP has.

I just can’t agree with you more. I mean, what do progressives want? Do they honestly want their vote to count more than the rest of the Democratic Party? Everyone I hear that Bernie is the better candidate I come back to Okay, but he lost by millions of votes each time! As an aside, it’s interesting that the right dosn’t have these internal battles.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Gay marriage is alive today in the US because of the courts not legislation.

So, because legislatures failed to legislate in a betrayal of progressive interests, they passed the buck inappropriately to the courts to manage.

Brown v Board of Education, Roe v Wade, Griswold v Connecticut, ... been this way for almost a century.

And whose fucking fault is it?!?

Progressives demand legislation and last I knew, the whole failure Roe is going to come down to the failure of Congress to act, because of those same mealy assholes who refused to do anything about the filibuster.

Generations have been ignored, left unheard, and the fact is that the election was an opportunity to apologize, make nice, and say "I guess we need to listen to progressives".

That didn't happen and the dems lost an important election, and the lack of action previously came and bit them in the ass because the Dems have no fucking spine and refused a spine transplant.

No amount of excuses will change the fact that if Hillary had offered the Sanders campaign all the decorum and fair play they deserved and 'celebrated the process' rather than attempting to shut him out, she would have won the primary still, AND won the election.

OMG. How did dems try to “shut out Bernie?”.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Gay marriage is alive today in the US because of the courts not legislation.

So, because legislatures failed to legislate in a betrayal of progressive interests, they passed the buck inappropriately to the courts to manage.

Brown v Board of Education, Roe v Wade, Griswold v Connecticut, ... been this way for almost a century.

And whose fucking fault is it?!?

Fault?

Progressives demand legislation and last I knew, the whole failure Roe is going to come down to the failure of Congress to act, because of those same mealy assholes who refused to do anything about the filibuster.

Are you serious? Any Roe v Wade protection passed by ax'ing the filibuster wouldn't survive repeal... without the filibuster. ACA is still in existence because of the filibuster. You sound like a person playing chess who was ready to take out a queen to only find out that the other player is allowed to move their pieces too.

No amount of excuses will change the fact that if Hillary had offered the Sanders campaign all the decorum and fair play they deserved and 'celebrated the process' rather than attempting to shut him out, she would have won the primary still, AND won the election.

Sanders was an independent... who was ALLOWED to be in the Democrat primary in the first place.

 

[Jarhyn]

I mean, what do progressives want? Do they honestly want their vote to count more than the rest of the Democratic Party?

For their vote to count AT ALL.

Start with what is in Bernie's platform.

It resounded with a huge portion of the electorate and focused on increasing corporate taxes, getting money out of politics, improving education funding, and drawing funding back on the military.

These are policies that the majority supports.

These are not policies supported by the DNC, because of DNC corruption.

We want to have SOME representation on the platform of the party, positions in committees based on the population's support of the issue.

If this was the case, for example, marijuana would have been federally legal many years ago.

The Democrats have been ratfucking progressive agendas since the dawn of politics.

 

[Jarhyn]

Any Roe v Wade protection passed by ax'ing the filibuster wouldn't survive repeal

Says you.

All this bitching and moaning and deflecting just so you don't have to utter the apparently hellishly awful words "OK, maybe they shouldn't have treated the Sanders campaign like that".

Just... Why is it so hard for you to see that it wasn't a good move? That defeat was snatched from the jaws of victory in an unforced mistake?

 

[TomC]

The fact is that time and again, democrats betray progressives.

And time and time again, progressives betray Democrats.
Like it or not, every single eligible voter who didn't vote for Clinton in 2016 or Harris in 2024 voted for Trump.
And the current situation.

Like it or not, it's a fact. We have three choices in USA elections, the Democrats or the Republicans or whoever wins the Electoral College. Everyone who voted for Sanders or stayed home effectively voted for Trump. All those people too ideological to vote for the Dem candidate voted for the current situation, whether they admit it or not.
Tom

 

[Jarhyn]

Like it or not, every single eligible voter who didn't vote for Clinton in 2016 or Harris in 2024 voted for Trump

progressives betray Democrats

Well, you were told why it happened. It's up to you lot to either accept the policy interests of progressives or let the world burn.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Like it or not, every single eligible voter who didn't vote for Clinton in 2016 or Harris in 2024 voted for Trump

progressives betray Democrats

Well, you were told why it happened. It's up to you lot to either accept the policy interests of progressives or let the world burn.

But you don’t think that progressives should accept the policy interests of moderates.

 

[TomC]

Like it or not, every single eligible voter who didn't vote for Clinton in 2016 or Harris in 2024 voted for Trump

progressives betray Democrats

Well, you were told why it happened. It's up to you lot to either accept the policy interests of progressives or let the world burn.

Why what happened?
Why did US "progressives" vote Trump so often that he took the White House, twice?

My guess is that they dumb as MAGAts, but less likely to vote.
Tom

 

[Harry Bosch]

I mean, what do progressives want? Do they honestly want their vote to count more than the rest of the Democratic Party?

For their vote to count AT ALL.

Start with what is in Bernie's platform.

It resounded with a huge portion of the electorate and focused on increasing corporate taxes, getting money out of politics, improving education funding, and drawing funding back on the military.

These are policies that the majority supports.

These are not policies supported by the DNC, because of DNC corruption.

We want to have SOME representation on the platform of the party, positions in committees based on the population's support of the issue.

If this was the case, for example, marijuana would have been federally legal many years ago.

The Democrats have been ratfucking progressive agendas since the dawn of politics.

Have you read the democratic platform? I would link it if I knew how (on my iPhone). But google 2024 democratic platform. Your issues above are in the platform. See page 17.

 

[Jarhyn]

Why did US "progressives" vote Trump

They didn't. They just had no motivation to vote for people who don't care about them.

 

[Jarhyn]

Your issues above are in the platform

And yet no progress is ever made on them and the people prioritizing these things are denied committee seats and campaign access.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Your issues above are in the platform

And yet no progress is ever made on them and the people prioritizing these things are denied committee seats and campaign access.

?? We lost the 2024 election.

 

[Elixir]

This contains a cacaphony of fallacies and misdirections.

Also more than a nugget of truth.
You can allege that they have knuckled under, but it can also be alleged that progressives have made perfect the enemy of good.
With a baseline of “unmitigated evil inhumanity”, the good needs all the support it can get, just to gain a toehold.

Once good is established as a baseline, like evil has been of late, we can realistically consider progressive or excellent. Right now - not so much.
Most of the electorate is so soaked in lies, it’s hard to blame them for sticking fingers in their ears and shouting “Lalalala I can’t hear you!” whenever the truth tries to touch them.
Just look at this forum’s Trumpers! Immune to facts, 100%.

 

[TomC]

It's up to you lot to either accept the policy interests of progressives or let the world burn.

"You lot"?
Who are you talking about?

Us lot didn't want Trump in the White House. Sanders supporters did.
Or at least they voted for Trump. When they didn't vote for Clinton. Or Harris. Doesn't matter if they are too ignorant to understand the situation in the USA.
Tom

 

[TomC]

Your issues above are in the platform

And yet no progress is ever made on them and the people prioritizing these things are denied committee seats and campaign access.

They voted for Trump!
Why would any Democrat care about the Trump voters?
Tom

 

[Elixir]

We want to have SOME representation on the platform of the party, positions in committees based on the population's support of the issue.

If there was NO representation, there wouldn’t even be legal weed at the State level.

Why did US "progressives" vote Trump

They didn't. They just had no motivation to vote for people who don't care about them.

How infantile. If the only way they are willing to gain anything is by a single step process, progressives’ causes are doomed.
Do you think the current authoritarians simply snatched democracy away from the American public in a single election cycle? No, they’ve been laying groundwork for decades.
Groundwork is a foreign concept to progressives seeking instant gratification.
Maybe they should consider spending a few decades trying to normalize the good and truth, as the fascists have normalized evil and lies.

 

[Jarhyn]

progressives have made perfect the enemy of good

Well, the issue comes at a point where a lot of those lies the electorate is soaked in are exactly the lies told to progressives to court their vote prior to being ignored entirely.

Hell, what we are arguing about doesn't even really mean all that much in terms of policy.

It isn't even the perfect as the enemy of the good but the "halfway decent". All it would have taken is taking a campaign seriously, and ceding SOME political capital

 

[Elixir]

It isn't even the perfect as the enemy of the good but the "halfway decent".

“Halfway decent”, were it to prevail (which it might, if progressives supported “halfway decent” candidates full-throatedly), would ENABLE progressive ideas to become normalized. That is how it’s done; in the same way that fascist authoritarianism has been normalized by the election of yes-men, xenophobes and ethical weaklings. Most got their seats by fearmongering about progressives.