Democrats 2020

[Elixir]

This all reads like a hit job on a popular moderate by far left news.

I agree. Not that it's an actual qualifier for the Presidency (see current occupant) but she looks more "presidential" to me than any other female contender to date.
I differ with some of her policies, which are characterized as moderate/democrat, but would have been better described as "centrist republican" not many years ago. But I think she'd beat Trump to a pulp at the polls, unless Uncle Vlad can dig up (read: manufacture) a mountain of dirt on her real quick.
So yeah - I'd vote for her if she is nominated.

I actually hadn't heard the russian agent allegation but that doesn't even crack the top 10 reasons I'd never consider voting for her [Tulsi].

There's one big fat orange reason I'd vote for her.

 

[poster]

Amy Klobuchar Enters 2020 Presidential Race - The New York Times

Amy Klobuchar, the third-term Minnesota senator, entered the race for the Democratic presidential nomination on Sunday, hopeful that her moderate politics, Midwestern roots and carefully cultivated history of bipartisanship can appeal to a broad swath of voters in contentious times.

View attachment 20123

Will Minnesota ever come up with another Paul Wellstone?

 

[TV and credit cards]

This all reads like a hit job on a popular moderate by far left news.

I agree. Not that it's an actual qualifier for the Presidency (see current occupant) but she looks more "presidential" to me than any other female contender to date.
I differ with some of her policies, which are characterized as moderate/democrat, but would have been better described as "centrist republican" not many years ago. But I think she'd beat Trump to a pulp at the polls, unless Uncle Vlad can dig up (read: manufacture) a mountain of dirt on her real quick.
So yeah - I'd vote for her if she is nominated.

I really don't want to see us see-sawing from extreme to extreme, spending four years undoing what the previous administration did. Our allies and trading partners are likely to throw their arms up in despair.
This little tramp stamp notwithstanding:
When the Healthy Hungry-Free Kids Act of 2010 raised the possibility that pizza would be eliminated from schools, threatening the $3 billion-dollar Schwan Company of Minnesota, Klobuchar petitioned the USDA to protect frozen pizzas in school lunches. This resulted in the sauce used in pizzas being counted as a serving of vegetables.
I'd vote for her. Hell, this might just draw some Trump supporters.

 

[poster]

This all reads like a hit job on a popular moderate by far left news.

I agree. Not that it's an actual qualifier for the Presidency (see current occupant) but she looks more "presidential" to me than any other female contender to date.
I differ with some of her policies, which are characterized as moderate/democrat, but would have been better described as "centrist republican" not many years ago. But I think she'd beat Trump to a pulp at the polls, unless Uncle Vlad can dig up (read: manufacture) a mountain of dirt on her real quick.
So yeah - I'd vote for her if she is nominated.

I really don't want to see us see-sawing from extreme to extreme, spending four years undoing what the previous administration did. Our allies and trading partners are likely to throw their arms up in despair.
This little tramp stamp notwithstanding:
When the Healthy Hungry-Free Kids Act of 2010 raised the possibility that pizza would be eliminated from schools, threatening the $3 billion-dollar Schwan Company of Minnesota, Klobuchar petitioned the USDA to protect frozen pizzas in school lunches. This resulted in the sauce used in pizzas being counted as a serving of vegetables.
I'd vote for her. Hell, this might just draw some Trump supporters.

Progressives aren't afraid of Klobuchar, they simply won't vote for her in either a primary or general election, so if the Dems want to sabotage the election they'll put her up.

OTOH, since Klobuchar is the most likely candidate to attract Republican voters, wouldn't it make more sense that Trump supporters might be behind the allegations if they are in fact untrue?

 

[Elixir]

Progressives aren't afraid of Klobuchar, they simply won't vote for her in either a primary or general election, so if the Dems want to sabotage the election they'll put her up.

Afraid of her, eh? I don't believe that you really think progressives would either stay home or vote for Trump against AK. She would gain more Trump defectors from the right than she's lose on the left. Progressives HATE Trump. They'd vote for anyone but the orange menace.

OTOH, since Klobuchar is the most likely candidate to attract Republican voters, wouldn't it make more sense that Trump supporters might be behind the allegations if they are in fact untrue?

Yeah, she's playing checkers and Trump is playing 4D chess. We get it.

 

[poster]

Progressives aren't afraid of Klobuchar, they simply won't vote for her in either a primary or general election, so if the Dems want to sabotage the election they'll put her up.

Afraid of her, eh? I don't believe that you really think progressives would either stay home or vote for Trump against AK. She would gain more Trump defectors from the right than she's lose on the left. Progressives HATE Trump. They'd vote for anyone but the orange menace.

OTOH, since Klobuchar is the most likely candidate to attract Republican voters, wouldn't it make more sense that Trump supporters might be behind the allegations if they are in fact untrue?

Yeah, she's playing checkers and Trump is playing 4D chess. We get it.

How in the world do you come up with that last sentence from what I typed?

Progressives will vote third party and let you neoliberals wallow for another four years in your own mess having learned nothing.

Either way, we progressives lose with either Trump or Klobuchar so it's no skin off our nose.

I could be wrong, of course, so if the Democratic elites want to roll the dice, be my guest.

 

[southernhybrid]

Afraid of her, eh? I don't believe that you really think progressives would either stay home or vote for Trump against AK. She would gain more Trump defectors from the right than she's lose on the left. Progressives HATE Trump. They'd vote for anyone but the orange menace.



Yeah, she's playing checkers and Trump is playing 4D chess. We get it.

How in the world do you come up with that last sentence from what I typed?

Progressives will vote third party and let you neoliberals wallow for another four years in your own mess having learned nothing.

Either way, we progressives lose with either Trump or Klobuchar so it's no skin off our nose.

I could be wrong, of course, so if the Democratic elites want to roll the dice, be my guest.

I doubt that will happen. The majority of progressives are more rational than that. Most of them learned a valuable lesson after the last election. I like Cory Booker at this point, but if he's out before the primaries, I will vote for my second choice. But, even if I don't get exactly what I want, I will certainly vote for the Democratic candidate because anyone would be a vast improvement over Trump. Perhaps AK and CB would be a good combination.

If far left progressives are such little children, that they will stay home or vote for some unqualified 3rd party candidate, I guess they must be enjoying what Trump is doing to the country. But, after hearing the news today, I'm not sure that Trump will be running again in 2020. So, it's even more important for the Dems to choose a candidate who appeals to a wide variety of voters. All of the Democrats are fairly progressive, but the best ones understand the need to compromise because "it's my way or the highway" has never worked out very well, now has it? You can have the most progressive goals in the world, but without compromise, you don't accomplish much of anything.

Obama was a progressive, but when he became president, he realized he had to move toward the center to get anything done. The Republican Congress obstructed him constantly. Moderate Dems even made it difficult to get the ACA passed, and while the ACA was far from perfect, I have friends and family members that relied on it. These were all people over the age of 50, who had preexisting conditions and were unable to even get insurance prior to the ACA. Hopefully, we will see more action taken toward a better form of UHC.

There wasn't as single scandal during Obama's entire presidency, which was rare among US presidents. He was always able to act with dignity and didn't let his enemies interfere with his ability to maintain his composure. That is the type of president that I want. Sorry if you don't understand that.

 

[Elixir]

There wasn't as single scandal during Obama's entire presidency, which was rare among US presidents. He was always able to act with dignity and didn't let his enemies interfere with his ability to maintain his composure.

No wonder the Alt-Right hates him!
That's totally un-umurikin!

 

[Elixir]

Progressives will vote third party

No self-respecting "independent" will ever vote for Trump or anyone like him again. You're missing a vital FACT:
Independents HATE Trump. So do a lot of Republicans. They'll cast their vote where it's most like to get him the fuck out of office.
If he can win with 28 percent of the vote, more power to him I guess.
More likely though, he'll be in prison and/or on a golf course in Russia by summer 2020.

 

[ZiprHead]

There wasn't as single scandal during Obama's entire presidency, which was rare among US presidents. He was always able to act with dignity and didn't let his enemies interfere with his ability to maintain his composure.

No wonder the Alt-Right hates him!
That's totally un-umurikin!

Bah! He didn't wear his suit jacket in the oval office. He was a monster.

 

[blastula]

Either way, we progressives lose with either Trump or Klobuchar so it's no skin off our nose.

You're confusing progressives with the brain dead.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Afraid of her, eh? I don't believe that you really think progressives would either stay home or vote for Trump against AK. She would gain more Trump defectors from the right than she's lose on the left. Progressives HATE Trump. They'd vote for anyone but the orange menace.



Yeah, she's playing checkers and Trump is playing 4D chess. We get it.

How in the world do you come up with that last sentence from what I typed?

Progressives will vote third party and let you neoliberals wallow for another four years in your own mess having learned nothing.

Either way, we progressives lose with either Trump or Klobuchar so it's no skin off our nose.

I could be wrong, of course, so if the Democratic elites want to roll the dice, be my guest.

Poster: you are no progressive! Progressives generally prefer moderate political change and especially social improvement by government action on issues like improving lives, a better environment, minority rights, lowering barriers, increased safety net, and etc. Anyone who sees no difference between Klobuchar and Trump is no progressive.

 

[poster]

I never said there wasn't any difference between Trump and Klobuchar, I said progressives lose either way. There's a difference. Neither Trump or Klobuchar will resist the Military Industrial Complex or its budget. There will be little if any change in attitude concerning the idea of American Exceptionalism. Neither will effectively restrain Wall Street. Environmentally speaking, there's little difference between the two, klobuchar will make the issue better sounding, but it will be all about jobs in the traditional sense.

Amy Klobuchar chewed up and then spit out Kavanaugh during the hearings, no question about that. She is as sharp as they come as a prosecutor. However, her background is that of a corporate lawyer, and corporate lawyers are usually sensitive to corporations and American-Style capitalism. I'm neither and so I will resist candidates such as Amy Klobuchar.

I will support the democratic party as long as the party represents a majority of the issues that concern me more than just in a rhetorical sense. Environment, equality, civil rights, real prison reform, ending the war on drugs or legalization of at least marijuana, reduction of the miltiterization of police and more accountability by them, transparency of goverment, protection for whilstleblowers, true lobbying reform, and stopping the insane regime change policy and getting us out of these wars.

ETA: oops, I forgot Universal Health Care.

 

[barbos]

Klobuchar is not a progressive material. She is a nicer smarter and better looking version of Hillary.
Warren is progressive, if only she had not gotten herself into this NA crap.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I never said there wasn't any difference between Trump and Klobuchar, I said progressives lose either way. There's a difference. Neither Trump or Klobuchar will resist the Military Industrial Complex or its budget. There will be little if any change in attitude concerning the idea of American Exceptionalism. Neither will effectively restrain Wall Street. Environmentally speaking, there's little difference between the two, klobuchar will make the issue better sounding, but it will be all about jobs in the traditional sense.

Amy Klobuchar chewed up and then spit out Kavanaugh during the hearings, no question about that. She is as sharp as they come as a prosecutor. However, her background is that of a corporate lawyer, and corporate lawyers are usually sensitive to corporations and American-Style capitalism. I'm neither and so I will resist candidates such as Amy Klobuchar.

I will support the democratic party as long as the party represents a majority of the issues that concern me more than just in a rhetorical sense. Environment, equality, civil rights, real prison reform, ending the war on drugs or legalization of at least marijuana, reduction of the miltiterization of police and more accountability by them, transparency of goverment, protection for whilstleblowers, true lobbying reform, and stopping the insane regime change policy and getting us out of these wars.

ETA: oops, I forgot Universal Health Care.

The problem here is that you have a very narrow window of wants. And if you don't get what you want, you whine and either don't vote, or support the other side (which is the same thing). While this happens, progressive causes (the environment, social rights, higher min wages, access to education, increased health care access, lower barriers, and etc.) suffer.

 

[poster]

I never said there wasn't any difference between Trump and Klobuchar, I said progressives lose either way. There's a difference. Neither Trump or Klobuchar will resist the Military Industrial Complex or its budget. There will be little if any change in attitude concerning the idea of American Exceptionalism. Neither will effectively restrain Wall Street. Environmentally speaking, there's little difference between the two, klobuchar will make the issue better sounding, but it will be all about jobs in the traditional sense.

Amy Klobuchar chewed up and then spit out Kavanaugh during the hearings, no question about that. She is as sharp as they come as a prosecutor. However, her background is that of a corporate lawyer, and corporate lawyers are usually sensitive to corporations and American-Style capitalism. I'm neither and so I will resist candidates such as Amy Klobuchar.

I will support the democratic party as long as the party represents a majority of the issues that concern me more than just in a rhetorical sense. Environment, equality, civil rights, real prison reform, ending the war on drugs or legalization of at least marijuana, reduction of the miltiterization of police and more accountability by them, transparency of goverment, protection for whilstleblowers, true lobbying reform, and stopping the insane regime change policy and getting us out of these wars.

ETA: oops, I forgot Universal Health Care.

The problem here is that you have a very narrow window of wants. And if you don't get what you want, you whine and either don't vote, or support the other side (which is the same thing). While this happens, progressive causes (the environment, social rights, higher min wages, access to education, increased health care access, lower barriers, and etc.) suffer.

That would be wrong on your part, HB. I realize it might be a first time being wrong for you, but well, all things must pass. Right?

 

[PyramidHead]

I hereby advance the following motion: everybody stop using the word "progressive", as it has been co-opted by DNC marketing officials as something voters apparently like to hear and is therefore used to describe every candidate from Warren to O'Rourke. They are no different from mainstream dems in any substantial way, but they convince people they are by using phrases like

(the environment, social rights, higher min wages, access to education, increased health care access, lower barriers, and etc.)

and implicitly asserting that there is only a minor difference to be found between those buzzwords and

(adopt Green New Deal-style sweeping reforms, abolish ICE, democratize workplaces, free college, free health care, no more wars for profit, and etc.)

when they are actually more different from each other than the former list is from the mainstream dem platform.

Klobuchar is a symptom of this, with her contrived idea about creating saving accounts that get tax credits that go towards whatever, which is the inevitable outcome of regarding the general layout of power and economic organization as basically untouchable but want to create the impression you care about poor people

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I hereby advance the following motion: everybody stop using the word "progressive", as it has been co-opted by DNC marketing officials as something voters apparently like to hear and is therefore used to describe every candidate from Warren to O'Rourke. They are no different from mainstream dems in any substantial way, but they convince people they are by using phrases like

(the environment, social rights, higher min wages, access to education, increased health care access, lower barriers, and etc.)

and implicitly asserting that there is only a minor difference to be found between those buzzwords and

(adopt Green New Deal-style sweeping reforms, abolish ICE, democratize workplaces, free college, free health care, no more wars for profit, and etc.)

when they are actually more different from each other than the former list is from the mainstream dem platform.

Wha?! Free college and health care?! You mean, "No out of pocket" college and health care. It isn't free!

And there currently is no Green New Deal. There is no plan. So I think we need to stop using the word "sweeping", because any piece of paper indicating massive change without actually addressing a plan or funding while calling it "sweeping" just makes the word meaningless.

Klobuchar is a symptom of this, with her contrived idea about creating saving accounts that get tax credits that go towards whatever, which is the inevitable outcome of regarding the general layout of power and economic organization as basically untouchable but want to create the impression you care about poor people

I love the idea of tax free accounts... where saving that 10% is going to make college affordable like magic.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I never said there wasn't any difference between Trump and Klobuchar, I said progressives lose either way. There's a difference. Neither Trump or Klobuchar will resist the Military Industrial Complex or its budget. There will be little if any change in attitude concerning the idea of American Exceptionalism. Neither will effectively restrain Wall Street. Environmentally speaking, there's little difference between the two, klobuchar will make the issue better sounding, but it will be all about jobs in the traditional sense.

Yeah, here is another difference, Trump's nominees to SCOTUS are much more likely to rule that progressive programs are unconstitutional, than Klobuchar's or Clinton's theoretical nominees, which might just make progressive programs a moot point now, as the final nail was already banged into the coffin thanks to Trump's win and the stuffing of the courts with strongly to far right wing judges, including the Supreme Court.

You might not have noticed from your pedestal, but we kind of already lost the war, but at least you still have hope for the next battle.

 

[PyramidHead]

Wha?! Free college and health care?! You mean, "No out of pocket" college and health care. It isn't free!

It's free like checking out a book from the library is free and cold tap water is free and calling the police is free. We don't mince words in those cases, this should be no different. Nobody talks about "affordable" public schools or "access" to postal services. Those things are considered free, and a system that provides them is very different from one that lets private entities profit from our need for them, even if it includes a discount.