Democrats Eat Their Own Again - Maxine Waters

[ZiprHead]

You used the present tense. I am not responsible for your sloppiness in presenting pointless analogies.

Regardless of the tense, the meaning of the hypothetical was clear. And it's hardly pointless as it points out the hypocrisy of attacking the Trump administration but having spent the last eight years complaining how Obama was treated. At least Robert "Family Guy" Gobbs and other members of the Obama administration weren't turned away from any restaurants.

Do you really think their aren't places in the US where Obama officials would not have been welcome?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Someone at a restaurant saying, "Sorry this restaurant has standards of decency, including compassion and honesty, so I am going to have to ask you to leave" isn't anywhere near LOW.

Telling someone that they are not welcome and ordering them to leave because of what job they do or who you perceive them to be is quite a bit lower in my view than making a rude twitter comment. Maybe that's just me though. A comment can be ignored. Kicking you out of somewhere can't be.

 

[braces_for_impact]

Originally posted by Mumbles

First, VP Biden *was* denied a campaign stop in 2012 by a diner owner. I had no issue with it, and the GOP celebrated this act, to the point of Paul "How dare Maxine Waters act this way!" Ryan invited him to the GOP national convention that year.

I forgot about that! As I recall, the guy sold out of "freedom cookies" as he became a hero on the right and he even got invited by Paul Ryan and Romney to the campaign trail where he was celebrated for making a "courageous stand."

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

They are obedience machines to an authoritarian ideological disease. They submit to authority (Trump, Jesus, Republican party), they are end times zealots, KKK, anti-conscience (because that would require questioning authority, but that's a mortal sin), hate and fear mongers.

My fear is that people will refuse to see that happening beyond a polarized partisan prism, and feed directly into that cycle making it worse instead of better.

Free speech dies. Everything is black or white with no gray, and everyone marches in lockstep to thought leaders on either side. Everyone is branded and there is no changing people or constructive conversation between sides. And nowhere for the middle or the freethinker.

 

[Angry Floof]

They are obedience machines to an authoritarian ideological disease. They submit to authority (Trump, Jesus, Republican party), they are end times zealots, KKK, anti-conscience (because that would require questioning authority, but that's a mortal sin), hate and fear mongers.

My fear is that people will refuse to see that happening beyond a polarized partisan prism, and feed directly into that cycle making it worse instead of better.

Free speech dies. Everything is black or white with no gray, and everyone marches in lockstep to thought leaders on either side. Everyone is branded and there is no changing people or constructive conversation between sides. And nowhere for the middle or the freethinker.

And my fear is that we've passed that point of constructive conversation, and a chunk of our population, including much of the government (not necessarily workers) are too far gone to reason with. I don't know how to fight ideological disease like this one any more than anyone else, but I know we do have to fight. Love and light don't faze these fuckers, and left to their own devices, they abuse and kill people, and their leaders replace our democracy with some kind of conscienceless theocratic Gilead.

I will continue to use the term "right wing authoritarian follower" because it's useful for people who are not too far gone. It's not just an insult or label for people I don't like. It's a personality and a social phenomenon, and googling the phrase will offer the curious some possibly useful information. RWAs don't care what it means, but other people, who might still be confused about what is happening in US politics, might gain some insight and perhaps even stop saying shit like "both sides are the same" in ignorance.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Someone at a restaurant saying, "Sorry this restaurant has standards of decency, including compassion and honesty, so I am going to have to ask you to leave" isn't anywhere near LOW.

Telling someone that they are not welcome and ordering them to leave because of what job they do or who you perceive them to be is quite a bit lower in my view than making a rude twitter comment. Maybe that's just me though. A comment can be ignored. Kicking you out of somewhere can't be.

It's not because of her job title. Why do you phrase it like that?

 

[Mumbles]

Getting Ms Sanders booted out of a restaurant and publicly shaming Ms Nielsjen in a restaurant may provide some temporary euphoria, those behaviors play right into the hands of Trumpistas and Trump. Moreover, it alerts/reminds Republicans of the extent of potential problems they face in the mid terms.

Not a concern. We've past the point where they could just make up some batshit conspiracy (Benghazi, Pizzagate, Black Lives Matter terrorists/"Black Identity Extremists", Sandy Hook Crisis Actors, James Hogg not really at Parkland, etc), and run with that instead.

 

[Mumbles]

They are obedience machines to an authoritarian ideological disease. They submit to authority (Trump, Jesus, Republican party), they are end times zealots, KKK, anti-conscience (because that would require questioning authority, but that's a mortal sin), hate and fear mongers.

My fear is that people will refuse to see that happening beyond a polarized partisan prism, and feed directly into that cycle making it worse instead of better.

Free speech dies. Everything is black or white with no gray, and everyone marches in lockstep to thought leaders on either side. Everyone is branded and there is no changing people or constructive conversation between sides. And nowhere for the middle or the freethinker.

As I recall, the putative leaders of Dem congresspeople are Pelosi and Schumer. Last I heard, Congresswoman Waters was openly refusing to back down to their criticism, so...not exactly lockstep there.

Now, as far as I care, we can have both the SCLC and the Black Panthers, and I'd much rather that than the actual lockstep foolishness of the GOP - but then again, they're obviously following behind a narcissistic white supremacist who is too lazy to read books. Maybe if that had a decent leader, I wouldn't find them so outright pathetic and spineless.

 

[Angry Floof]

They are obedience machines to an authoritarian ideological disease. They submit to authority (Trump, Jesus, Republican party), they are end times zealots, KKK, anti-conscience (because that would require questioning authority, but that's a mortal sin), hate and fear mongers.

My fear is that people will refuse to see that happening beyond a polarized partisan prism, and feed directly into that cycle making it worse instead of better.

Free speech dies. Everything is black or white with no gray, and everyone marches in lockstep to thought leaders on either side. Everyone is branded and there is no changing people or constructive conversation between sides. And nowhere for the middle or the freethinker.

As I recall, the putative leaders of Dem congresspeople are Pelosi and Schumer. Last I heard, Congresswoman Waters was openly refusing to back down to their criticism, so...not exactly lockstep there.

Now, as far as I care, we can have both the SCLC and the Black Panthers, and I'd much rather that than the actual lockstep foolishness of the GOP - but then again, they're obviously following behind a narcissistic white supremacist who is too lazy to read books. Maybe if that had a decent leader, I wouldn't find them so outright pathetic and spineless.

Don't forget that they are also deeply entranced by stupidstitious end times zealotry.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

And my fear is that we've passed that point of constructive conversation, and a chunk of our population, including much of the government (not necessarily workers) are too far gone to reason with.

If not reason with them, then what? Violence? Are you ready for a civil war? Because that's the alternative.

I disagree that they can't be reasoned with. And I believe that painting them into that corner just pushes them to become more that way. A lot of these people can be won over and be shown that empathy for the other is good, and a good way to do that is to not paint them with a broad brush as the irredeemable other (or basket of deplorables) just because they didn't vote as the speaker would like. I am not saying that you are doing that, but I have seen many start to go that way. It backfires spectacularly.

I don't know how to fight ideological disease like this one any more than anyone else, but I know we do have to fight.

Fight it by fighting the ideologies instead of the people whenever possible, as that is the only way you are going to change them. Go at the base problems, removed from the partisan prism. Problems like fear of the other, tribalism, and other failures of the mind that exist in all of us to some extent or another. And it is important to recognize that these flaws exist in us all to some extent (possibly to a much lesser extent in you than in them) as that in itself can help bridge the gap.

In the battle of ideology, I think a lot of people on the left underestimate just how much damage statements like "only white people can be racist" etc do to efforts to change minds away from being white racists etc. We should instead stick to the message that race is a stupid thing to care about and that some individuals who are minorities get a raw deal due to X, Y, and Z.

 

[Angry Floof]

No, we shame them, relentlessly and repeatedly. Tie up their staff with calls and emails. Spread their shame. Protest. (Is violence really the only alternative you could think of??) And I understand the term and exactly how I use it.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

No, we shame them, relentlessly and repeatedly. Tie up their staff with calls and emails. Spread their shame. Protest.

Those are all forms of speech, and poorly designed attempts to reason with them. Shaming somebody is a form of reasoning. Its an attempt to show them their errors. And do you mean call them all deplorables because they voted for Trump and show them that you can't be reasoned with, so they will call you "libtards" (or whatever the going word is these days)? I'm sure that will go well for you.... Can you say Donald Trump 2nd Term?

 

[Angry Floof]

No, we shame them, relentlessly and repeatedly. Tie up their staff with calls and emails. Spread their shame. Protest.

Those are all forms of speech, and poorly designed attempts to reason with them. Shaming somebody is a form of reasoning. Its an attempt to show them their errors. And do you mean call them all deplorables because they voted for Trump and show them that you can't be reasoned with, so they will call you "libtards" (or whatever the going word is these days)? I'm sure that will go well for you.... Can you say Donald Trump 2nd Term?

Yeah, that's exactly how I think. That's the ticket!

 

[southernhybrid]

Apparently, it's only okay for Trumpers to be obnoxious and hateful.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/outside-the-red-hen-america-vents/2018/06/26/81a991a6-7998-11e8-80be-6d32e182a3bc_story.html?utm_term=.3eacfb46581d

If you can't read the link, I will give you a small taste of the protests that went on yesterday.

Two women and a man showed up with a bullhorn, holding signs with harsh anti-gay messages. The Red Hen’s owner, Stephanie Wilkinson, in her only interview over the weekend, had told The Washington Post that several of her staffers were gay and were uncomfortable serving Sanders because she defended Trump’s desire to ban transgender people from the military. The group with the bullhorn seized on that.

“This town is full of people who don’t know Jesus Christ and rebel against Jesus Christ through their sins,” shouted Dianna Orea, 50. Saying she was from Michigan but traveled the country preaching, she held a sign that said “LGBT — Let God Burn Them.” Her companion, Edgar Orea, began railing against “Sodomites.”

Not all of the protesters were Jesus freaks. There was an assortment protesters as well.

Wayne gave his occupation as “vigilante” — he pointed to the “VGL-NTE” license plates of his red Ford Super Duty pickup — and said that “politics shouldn’t decide whether you can eat dinner or not.”

It’s a shame what’s happened to Lexington, said his companion, Grayson Jennings, 66, a retired contractor and member of the Virginia Flaggers Confederate heritage group. “It’s lost its way. There are too many come-heres and transplants and carpetbaggers,” he said.

That guy sounds so tolerant and welcoming to those who are different from him. Carpetbaggers? Seriously? What century are these people living in?

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Maxine Waters vs. Donald Trump.

It's like a fight breaking out in the Special Ed classroom.

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[RVonse]

Maxine Waters is an idiot!

Maxine Waters vs. Donald Trump.

It's like a fight breaking out in the Special Ed classroom.

So true!

There are many people of this board who do not like Donald Trump and I respect how they can feel that way.

But there can not be any argument about one thing. Trump has it exactly right when he says Maxine Waters is a very low intelligent individual. She actually causes me to wonder how the state of California can be so successful if she represents what people are like who live there. That woman is dumb on steroids!

 

[Mumbles]

Maxine Waters vs. Donald Trump.

It's like a fight breaking out in the Special Ed classroom.

So true!

There are many people of this board who do not like Donald Trump and I respect how they can feel that way.

But there can not be any argument about one thing. Trump has it exactly right when he says Maxine Waters is a very low intelligent individual. She actually causes me to wonder how the state of California can be so successful if she represents what people are like who live there. That woman is dumb on steroids!

I have yet to see any actual evidence that she's "stupid".

Dolt 45, in contrast, can't make it through simple security briefings without having the government deliver it in picture book form.

 

[J842P]

No, we shame them, relentlessly and repeatedly. Tie up their staff with calls and emails. Spread their shame. Protest.

Those are all forms of speech, and poorly designed attempts to reason with them. Shaming somebody is a form of reasoning. Its an attempt to show them their errors. And do you mean call them all deplorables because they voted for Trump and show them that you can't be reasoned with, so they will call you "libtards" (or whatever the going word is these days)? I'm sure that will go well for you.... Can you say Donald Trump 2nd Term?

Eh. To be fair, acting this way is how the Republican's won. It started with the Tea Party.