Democrats trying to unseat each other III

[lpetrich]

You haven't explained how a capitalist oligarch can be "far left".

It seems contradictory, sure. And yet, people like George Soros are both extremely wealthy and also far left.
Or are you denying either of these facts?

I agree that he is very rich, but to call him "far left" is a baseless absurdity. One has to be very far right to consider him "far left".

So you'd prefer that politicians be paid lackeys of corrupt oligarchs?

I did not say that. Just that "small donors" are no panacea.

Then what is your alternative to small-dollar donations and oligarch financing?

Also, what is supposed to be so extreme about MTG or LB?

Their positions. Especially MTG. Are you denying that too? Or just arguing for arguing sake?

I'm asking what you find extreme about MTG's and LB's positions. Nothing?

 

[lpetrich]

Opinion | The Minnesota Miracle should serve as a model for Democrats - The Washington Post - June 4, 2023 at 7:00 a.m. EDT - By E.J. Dionne Jr.

You could be forgiven for imagining that state legislatures around the country are lurching rightward, thanks to the media spotlight given to Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis’s culture warring in his state. Other deep-red states are not far behind.

Then noting that President Biden's partial victory on the national-debt ceiling was essentially a defensive one.

This is why the Minnesota Miracle, which is only beginning to get the attention it deserves, is so important. The avalanche of progressive legislation that the state’s two-vote Democratic majority in the Minnesota House and one-vote advantage in the state Senate have enacted this year is a wonder to behold.

Noting
‘Transformational’ and also ‘bonkers:’ Minnesota Legislature ends its session of historic spending, policy changes | MinnPost - May 23, 2023

If someone built a word cloud of all the DFL floor speeches of all their bills during this year’s legislative session, the dominant words would be “transformational,” “generational” and “historic.”

...
With a DFL trifecta and more money to spend than any Legislature ever — even adjusted for inflation — nearly every plank of the DFL platform was fulfilled.

...
For Republicans, the gigantic words on their word cloud might have been more like: “partisan,” “overreach” and, as became quite popular, “bonkers.”

 

[lpetrich]

That list is lengthy — and expensive. With the help of a $17.5 billion surplus (that would have been $19 billion had the DFL not changed the way inflation was included mid-session), the 2023-2025 budget will be 40% higher than the current budget.

Democrats codified abortion rights, paid family and medical leave, sick leave, transgender rights protections, drivers licenses for undocumented residents, restoration of voting rights for people when they are released from prison or jail, wider voting access, one-time rebates, a tax credit aimed at low-income parents with kids, and a $1 billion investment in affordable housing including for rental assistance.

Also adopted were background checks for private gun transfers and a red-flag warning system to take guns from people deemed by a judge to be a threat to themselves or others. DFL lawmakers banned conversion therapy for LGBTQ people, legalized recreational marijuana, expanded education funding, required a carbon-free electric grid by 2040, adopted a new reading curricula based on phonics, passed a massive $2.58 billion capital construction package and, at the insistence of Republicans, a $300 million emergency infusion of money to nursing homes.

As one might expect, R's didn't like it. “We’re seeing nothing but tax rises on Minnesotans. We’re seeing mandates going to our schools. We’re seeing a complete change of priorities in this state,” grumbled Senate Minority Leader Mark Johnson, R-East Grand Forks.

Back to the WaPo.

There’s a lot more, including laws strengthening workers’ rights and unemployment insurance for hourly workers previously left out of the system; a refundable child credit for lower-income Minnesotans; and free breakfast and lunch for all Minnesota K-12 students.

Barack Obama tweeted Barack Obama on Twitter: "If you need a reminder that elections have consequences, check out what's happening in Minnesota. (link)" / Twitter

 

[lpetrich]

Why this great success?

State Democratic leaders said in interviews that as soon as they learned in November that they would have their first trifecta in a decade — meaning control of both chambers and the governorship — they decided they would not hold back to calculate the politics of every move.

“I thought this would be a once-in-a-generation opportunity, and it should be viewed that way,” Walz told me. “And I've always said you don't win elections to bank political capital. You win elections to burn the capital to improve lives.”
Democratic leaders quickly worked to bring together legislators from the metro Twin Cities, many on the left, and those closer to the center from rural and small-town areas.

...
Most important, said Hortman and House Majority Leader Jamie Long, was the experience of Democrats’ trifecta a decade ago. As Long put it, the party “passed a lot of really good things” but worried about how various bills might “affect them electorally.”

“There were many things they decided not to do because they figured, ‘Well, we should win our reelections and then we’ll come back and do all those things next time.’” But there was no next time until this year because Democrats lost their House majority in the 2014 elections. Hortman said leaders from that time told this year’s trifectarians that the only regret they had “were the things that they had left on the table.”

House Speaker Melissa Hortman.

It's also good governance to deliver on one's promises, instead of being all talk and no action. Failure to deliver was a big problem with Bill Clinton's Presidency, for instance, and it also caused trouble with Barack Obama's Presidency.

 

[lpetrich]

Jamie Long mentioned “the Wellstone Triangle,” named after Sen. Paul Wellstone:

• Good ideas
• Elected politicians who support those ideas
• Outside activists who support these politicians and ideas

Democrats in the state are known as the Democratic-Farmer-Labor Party from their merger with a third party in the 1940s. True to the name, the party’s agenda combined social concerns such as abortion rights with what Long called “bread-and-butter, populist things that sell everywhere in the state.”

Walz thinks this will help win back some of the voters who drifted Republican in the Trump years. “There’s nothing extreme about feeding kids,” he said. “There’s nothing extreme about women making their own health-care decisions. There’s nothing extreme about saying don’t demonize these trans children. Just make a place for them. We’ll all be okay. And I think I think it’s working.”

But a lot of big donors don't like such an economic agenda. They often seem to feel that their wealth depends on others being poor.

 

[lpetrich]

List Of Progressives Running For 2020 Congress(Update 12-1-19) : Political_Revolution

List Of 2022 Progressives Running For U.S. Congress(Update 6-19-21) : NewDealAmerica

Collected by user sXehero137 -- last post August 3, 2021.

I could not find any comparable lists for 2018 or for this year.

Looking at progressive PAC's, the only one I find endorsing candidates is Blue America – Working to change America

It has four candidates so far:

• It’s Maebe– For Sure – Blue America - CA-28 - and noting her competition: Cory Matthews is Running Against Maebe A. Girl For Adam Schiff’s Old Seat – Blue America - Bennett Savage, who played Cory Matthews in a 1990's Disney sitcom.
• Pervez Agwan Stands For Justice, Equality And Opportunity – Blue America - TX-07 - against incumbent Lizzie Fletcher
• Blue America Endorsement Alert— Aaron Regunberg For Congress (RI-01) – Blue America
• Blue America Endorses Democrats– Next Year In WA-02 There’s A Better Alternative: Jason Call, Green – Blue America - against incumbent Rick Larsen

He previously ran as a Democrat, and he's now running as a Green.

• 2020: RL 48.5%, (R) 14.9%, JC 13.9%
• 2022: RL 45.8%, (R) 17.0%, JC 14.5%

Barely behind the Republican in both elections.

 

[Derec]

It’s Maebe– For Sure – Blue America - CA-28 - and noting her competition: Cory Matthews is Running Against Maebe A. Girl For Adam Schiff’s Old Seat – Blue America - Bennett Savage, who played Cory Matthews in a 1990's Disney sitcom.

I do not see how anybody can take someone with a made up name like that seriously.

 

[Derec]

Jamie Long mentioned “the Wellstone Triangle,” named after Sen. Paul Wellstone:

• Good ideas
• Elected politicians who support those ideas
• Outside activists who support these politicians and ideas

Should be "the Wellstone quadrangle".

• Not flying on any small planes

Seriously though, what constitutes "good ideas" is highly contested - this triangle could equally apply to MAGA.
I also have an issue of relying on outside activists. (Semi)professional activists getting a lot of attention tend to be on the extreme end of whatever issue they are activisting for.

Walz thinks this will help win back some of the voters who drifted Republican in the Trump years. “There’s nothing extreme about feeding kids,” he said.

I do not see why I should be paying for somebody else's brats' tater tots and whatnot when the parents are too lazy even to put a condom on or take birth control pills. What happened to being responsible for your own actions?

The above loses much of its impact if the Nanny State is also picking up the tab for your kids.

There’s nothing extreme about saying don’t demonize these trans children.

I agree that Republicans went way overboard on this. Trans people should not be demonized. Nevertheless, there are legitimate concerns.
- sports competitions. Trans women are biologically male and usually retain many of the physical advantages of that biology.
- children can be fickle. We should be careful not to inflict any treatments with permanent effects without being very sure the kid is actually trans.
- extremist activists dominating the conversation. Like insisting that everybody should have to declare their pronouns even though vast majority of people are cis. Or saying that merely declaring oneself to be trans or non-binary should be enough to force people to use whatever pronouns you prefer (and which, according to activists they should be able to change on a daily basis).

For example, I think Manuel "Tortugita" Teran was a faker. Non-binary because that identity is trendy in extremist leftist, police abolitionist circles he moved in.

We need a common sense compromise on trans issues, like we do on others. But that would involve Dems growing a spine and admitting that there are crazies in their own ranks on this issue as well.

But a lot of big donors don't like such an economic agenda. They often seem to feel that their wealth depends on others being poor.

Nobody is saying that, I don't think. But too much government spending and too much regulation of businesses can be damaging to the economy for everyone.

 

[Derec]

It's also good governance to deliver on one's promises, instead of being all talk and no action. Failure to deliver was a big problem with Bill Clinton's Presidency, for instance, and it also caused trouble with Barack Obama's Presidency.

Clinton presided over one of the best economies we had in a while and he even balanced the budget - something we are over a trillion dollars away now, year over year! He also passed welfare reform, and the crime bill. Anathema to the far left, sure, but just because there is action in the direction you dislike does not mean there is a lack of action.

Obama accomplished a major healthcare reform, among other things. Just because it did not go too far enough for the activists does not mean it's not a major accomplishment.

 

[bilby]

It’s Maebe– For Sure – Blue America - CA-28 - and noting her competition: Cory Matthews is Running Against Maebe A. Girl For Adam Schiff’s Old Seat – Blue America - Bennett Savage, who played Cory Matthews in a 1990's Disney sitcom.

I do not see how anybody can take someone with a made up name like that seriously.

I dunno, lots of people seem to be called "Cory" nowadays.

 

[lpetrich]

Jamie Long mentioned “the Wellstone Triangle,” named after Sen. Paul Wellstone:

• Good ideas
• Elected politicians who support those ideas
• Outside activists who support these politicians and ideas

Should be "the Wellstone quadrangle".

• Not flying on any small planes

Seems like a very bad joke.

Also, as to right-wingers being able to have a version of the Wellstone Triangle, so what?

 

[lpetrich]

Walz thinks this will help win back some of the voters who drifted Republican in the Trump years. “There’s nothing extreme about feeding kids,” he said.

I do not see why I should be paying for somebody else's brats' tater tots and whatnot when the parents are too lazy even to put a condom on or take birth control pills. What happened to being responsible for your own actions?
(...)
The above loses much of its impact if the Nanny State is also picking up the tab for your kids.

So children are some extravagant indulgence like (say) yachts? Except that yachts deserve big tax write-offs and children don't, right?

As to "being responsible your own actions", does that include protection? Should government military and police forces be abolished because they encourage people to be irresponsible about protecting themselves?


I am childless, but I fully accept that I depend on others having children, and if it means subsidizing them, I won't complain.

 

[lpetrich]

But a lot of big donors don't like such an economic agenda. They often seem to feel that their wealth depends on others being poor.

Nobody is saying that, I don't think.

Not in public.

But too much government spending

Like on military and police forces and prisons and the like? Those are financed by government spending, and if government spending is evil, then those have got to go along with everything else.

and too much regulation of businesses can be damaging to the economy for everyone.

So misbehavior is acceptable if a business does it, right?

 

[lpetrich]

It's also good governance to deliver on one's promises, instead of being all talk and no action. Failure to deliver was a big problem with Bill Clinton's Presidency, for instance, and it also caused trouble with Barack Obama's Presidency.

Clinton presided over one of the best economies we had in a while and he even balanced the budget - something we are over a trillion dollars away now, year over year! He also passed welfare reform, and the crime bill. Anathema to the far left, sure, but just because there is action in the direction you dislike does not mean there is a lack of action.

I'm talking about making progressive promises and not acting on them. He wasted the first part of his presidency on developing a gruesomely complicated healthcare plan, and developing it in secret. When it was ready to go, he barely did anything to publicize it, and it quickly died in Congress.

His welfare reform went in the opposite direction. He should have had less strict means testing, so one can earn some money and still at least partially qualify.

Also, if means testing is so great, why not make police protection subject to it? Why not make it so that anyone with more than some very low income would have to hire a guard service? Why should self-protectors have to fund the protection of people who are too lazy to protect themselves?

His crime bill was also bad. How the 1994 Crime Bill Fed the Mass Incarceration Crisis | ACLU

 

[Gospel]

I always found it odd how the republicans went after Bill Clinton's head (pun intended) when he was more helpful to them than he was liberals.

 

[TomC]

am childless, but I fully accept that I depend on others having children, and if it means subsidizing them, I won't complain.

Yeppers

I have never been enrolled in the public school system. I've never enrolled anyone in the public school system.

The bulk of my property taxes go to fund the public school system, subsidizing other people's children's education.

I don't have a problem with that because I want to live in a world with more education, not less. Money isn't everything, but it's a start on a school system.
Tom

 

[lpetrich]

Obama accomplished a major healthcare reform, among other things. Just because it did not go too far enough for the activists does not mean it's not a major accomplishment.

A little bit of one, maybe, but not good enough. IMO. Obamacare Turns 10. Here’s a Look at What Works and Doesn’t. - The New York Times

Obamacare barely made a dent in US healthcare spending or outcomes, it must be noted. The US continues to spend much more while achieving less in outcomes.

• Life expectancy vs. health expenditure, 1970 to 2015
• File:Life expectancy vs healthcare spending.jpg - Wikimedia Commons
• U.S. Health Care from a Global Perspective, 2022 | Commonwealth Fund

That's why the new wave of progressive candidates likes Medicare for All -- single-payer, like Canada and Taiwan. That's a very drastic step, however, and a good halfway step would be a "public option", Medicare for All Who Want It.

 

[Derec]

Seems like a very bad joke.

I thought it was decent.

Also, as to right-wingers being able to have a version of the Wellstone Triangle, so what?

I am just saying, both sides have their own extreme ideas and activists who are willing to fight for them.

 

[Derec]

So children are some extravagant indulgence like (say) yachts?

They can be. For somebody un(der)employed, having children is far more an indulgence than for a rich person to have a yacht.

Except that yachts deserve big tax write-offs and children don't, right?

Do personal yachts really get a "big tax write-off"? Do you have a link? Commercial yachts (say those used as hirable party boats), I can see writing off just like you would with any sort of business equipment.
For kids you can get a lot of tax credits and other benefits already. However, Dems want to keep increasing it. Like the stupid idea to increase the child tax credit by $300-360 per child for those making up to $150k. That means that a child free person making $30k or $40k has to subsidize children of people making six figures!

In general, Dems want to externalize more and more costs of raising children. Take free school lunches. That wasn't enough. Now it's: schools must be kept open even when no classes are given for the express purpose of providing free lunches. What's next? All three meals for free at the school?

As to "being responsible your own actions", does that include protection? Should government military and police forces be abolished because they encourage people to be irresponsible about protecting themselves?

No. Everybody hiring a private police force is not a reasonable idea. Expecting people to use a condom is. Or to buy their own child's lunch.

I am childless, but I fully accept that I depend on others having children, and if it means subsidizing them, I won't complain.

I did not either, up to a reasonable level. But the expected amount of subsidies for breeding keeps increasing, never decreasing. It is a very expensive ratchet.

 

[Derec]

Nobody is saying that, I don't think.

Not in public.

So you can read minds now?

But too much government spending

Like on military and police forces and prisons and the like? Those are financed by government spending, and if government spending is evil, then those have got to go along with everything else.

I did not say government spending in itself is evil. Obviously, government must spend money in order to govern.
Do not confuse me with a Norquistite! I also support reasonable levels of social services.
But at the same time, let's not pretend that government can spend any amount it wants and that there is no such thing as too much government spending.
There definitely is a point where there is "too much government spending". For example, there was too much spending during the Pandemic. Some fiscal stimulus was needed, but a lot was very ill-conceived and all of it went on way past the time where it should have been discontinued. The subsidies for student loan debtors are still ongoing!

and too much regulation of businesses can be damaging to the economy for everyone.

So misbehavior is acceptable if a business does it, right?

Never said that either. You need to work on your reading comprehension. Regulation is necessary, but too much of it, and wrong kind of regulation, stifles economic activity and innovation.