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DERAIL: So the Crucifixion - What's up with that?

Learner said:
A law is a law ...I just haven't seen much on this particular one carried out in the bible.
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What does that even mean? There's a loophole in the Bible, where men sleeping with men is offensive to God unless their love for the guy was real? Sounds like the message is so simple you can add just about anything you have to to it.
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Why the failure of clear thinking?

God has a law about sodomy. Nobody in the bible is reported as being stoned to death for sodomy.
What does that tell us?
That nobody got caught?

Or that deterrence works?
 
Lion IRC said:
Learner said:
A law is a law ...I just haven't seen much on this particular one carried out in the bible.
Click to expand...

Why the failure of clear thinking?

God has a law about sodomy. Nobody in the bible is reported as being stoned to death for sodomy.
What does that tell us?
That nobody got caught?

Or that deterrence works?
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Or that the Bible isn't a collection of statistics?
 
Lion IRC said:
What does that even mean? There's a loophole in the Bible, where men sleeping with men is offensive to God unless their love for the guy was real? Sounds like the message is so simple you can add just about anything you have to to it.
Click to expand...

Why the failure of clear thinking?

God has a law about sodomy. Nobody in the bible is reported as being stoned to death for sodomy.
What does that tell us?
That nobody got caught?

Or that deterrence works?
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So, when God had everyone in the city of Sodom killed, what are you claiming his problem with them was then?
 
Lion IRC said:
Or that deterrence works?
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Well, that can't be true. CHristains are all the time bragging about how their spiritual ancestors were thrown to the lions because they practiced their religion rather than the official one, making all their martyrs poster children for the fact that deterrence does not work.
 
Nobody is put to death in the Bible for blaspheming the Holy Spirit, either. Or for raping a child. Or for committing treason against the state.

Gathering firewood on Saturday, however . . .
 
Or holding a census (didn't that result in 80,000 deaths?) ...or holding an unauthorized rite in Jehovah's honor (for which Aaron's 2 sons were killed dead, if I remember the tale)...or bitching about the endless diet of manna (God sent snakes to kill the whiners)...man is a homicidal beast at times, but he has nothin' on Biblegod.
 
Lion IRC said:
What does that even mean? There's a loophole in the Bible, where men sleeping with men is offensive to God unless their love for the guy was real? Sounds like the message is so simple you can add just about anything you have to to it.
Click to expand...

Why the failure of clear thinking?

God has a law about sodomy. Nobody in the bible is reported as being stoned to death for sodomy.
What does that tell us?
That nobody got caught?

Or that deterrence works?
Click to expand...

False dichotomy. Third choice: Or that people were stoned for sodomy but it was not reported in the Bible.
 
Jesus was executed for treason against the state.
 
vacuums provide a large playground to toss stuff around in...

sdelsolray said:
Lion IRC said:
Why the failure of clear thinking?

God has a law about sodomy. Nobody in the bible is reported as being stoned to death for sodomy.
What does that tell us?
That nobody got caught?

Or that deterrence works?
Click to expand...

False dichotomy. Third choice: Or that people were stoned for sodomy but it was not reported in the Bible.
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Forth choice: Most people thought the rules were mostly bullshit.
 
Tom Sawyer said:
"So, when God had everyone in the city of Sodom killed, what are you claiming his problem with them was then?"
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We all know why Sodom was destroyed.
And God's punishment of sin is the very deterrent effect to which I'm referring.

Now, if you want to assert that the only Sodomites who were 'stoned' to death in the bible are those who were living in Sodom, I think you're quibbling, but that still doesn't invalidate Learner's quite correct observation that we don't see punishments arising from Leviticus 18:22 etc. being enacted anywhere in the bible.
 
Lion IRC said:
Tom Sawyer said:
"So, when God had everyone in the city of Sodom killed, what are you claiming his problem with them was then?"
Click to expand...

We all know why Sodom was destroyed.
And God's punishment of sin is the very deterrent effect to which I'm referring.

Now, if you want to assert that the only Sodomites who were 'stoned' to death in the bible are those who were living in Sodom, I think you're quibbling, but that still doesn't invalidate Learner's quite correct observation that we don't see punishments arising from Leviticus 18:22 etc. being enacted anywhere in the bible.
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Well it doesn't say don't ram toast into my CD-ROM drive. When people communicate they skip mentioning things we can imply. If I introduce a rule and then go ahead and tell a story the listener will assume that the rule applies. Only when the rule doesn't apply does the reader expect an explanation. It's basic communication theory.

Saying that people are stoned is not interesting to the reader. They will assume the stonings are enacted upon. Only if they didn't do they need to write it. Which they didn't. Ergo, people were stoned in the Biblical story.

There's loads of things implied in the Bible that we just fill in.
 
sdelsolray said:
Lion IRC said:
Why the failure of clear thinking?

God has a law about sodomy. Nobody in the bible is reported as being stoned to death for sodomy.
What does that tell us?
That nobody got caught?

Or that deterrence works?
Click to expand...

False dichotomy. Third choice: Or that people were stoned for sodomy but it was not reported in the Bible.
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Yes, there are many possible reasons.
Perhaps they all had sex standing up rather than laying down with each other.
 
Lion IRC said:
Tom Sawyer said:
"So, when God had everyone in the city of Sodom killed, what are you claiming his problem with them was then?"
Click to expand...

We all know why Sodom was destroyed.
And God's punishment of sin is the very deterrent effect to which I'm referring.

Now, if you want to assert that the only Sodomites who were 'stoned' to death in the bible are those who were living in Sodom, I think you're quibbling, but that still doesn't invalidate Learner's quite correct observation that we don't see punishments arising from Leviticus 18:22 etc. being enacted anywhere in the bible.
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So that means it's a good law? Or that there's no problem with it being a law? I'm not really sure what the argument is here.

If there was a law on the books which stated "Publically insulting the Prime Minister is punishable by a $10,000 fine", but no PM had ever instructed the authorities to prosecute those breaking the law, would you say that there's no issue with that being a law?

Personally, I'd think that the mere fact that a PM could have people fined for that and the mere fact that one is in a society which has a law allowing for the potential for that are negatives in and of themselves, despite the fact that non-enforcement means that nobody has ever been harmed by this. Would you disagree with me about that and why?
 
Nowhere in the Theft Act (1968) does it mention anyone being punished for committing theft. Nor is anyone being punished for theft mentioned anywhere else in English statute law.

We can therefore conclude that no Englishman has ever been punished for theft, and that theft never occurs in England because of the deterrent effect of the law.

Either that, or we can conclude that LionIRC is fucking useless at logic; and/or that he thinks everyone else is so fucking useless at logic that they won't see the glaring flaw in his unimaginably stupid argument.

I mean seriously. This is the worst argument in history. I can't believe anyone is truly so dumb as to attempt to support this total turd of an idea trying to masquerade as reason.
 
Learner said:
Not so different from Lions previous deterent post.

Fith Choice: People actually obeyed the law !
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Yes, that's exactly what I think.
Accounts in the bible of gay ppl being stoned would show quite clearly that there was disobedience of the law and insufficient deterrent effect of the stated penalty.
 
"The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn’t mean that God doesn’t love heterosexuals. It’s just that they need more supervision."
Lynn Lavner
 
Lion IRC said:
"The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn’t mean that God doesn’t love heterosexuals. It’s just that they need more supervision."
Lynn Lavner
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No, we don't. The Bible is wrong on that too. If somebody's response to you raping a woman is "Well, you owe her dad some cash now and you have to marry her so she can have her rapist in her bed with her for the rest of her life" then that guy has no business making laws and has no business acting in any kind of supervisory capacity whatsoever.

The laws in the Bible are shit. When Jesus says that none of them should change, he's advocating for some truly terrible stuff.
 
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