DeSantis Flies Immigrants to Martha Vineyard

[TV and credit cards]

So asylum seekers have to wait 365 days from submitting an application for asylum before they can submit an application to work in the US. Was 150 days. Then Trump. Why not let them work from the time they submit their application for asylum? We're so hurting for workers. We should have something like an, oh I don't know, an Asylum Seeker Work Authorization Act for this Democrat led congress to push through.

 

[Patooka]

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If they cross the border, immediately turn themselves into INS, and apply for asylum, that is not illegal.

The asylum system is an unworkable mess. It was intended to protect those politically persecuted, but is now used mostly by economic migrants in their millions.
And note that everyone who claims asylum gets to stay while their claim is processed. Which takes years. And after that time it is almost impossible to deport them, even if their claims are rejected. Especially if they pop out a few anchor babies in that time.

"Asylum" these days is just a convenient way to de facto legalize illegals, nothing more.

What you are missing is that political troubles lead to economic troubles. Yes, they are coming from places with trashed economies--but that doesn't mean they aren't targets also.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Making the US utterly isolationist, destroying our economy.

Says who? That is the fallacy of false dichotomy - either isolationism or de facto unrestricted immigration (which we have now pretty much).

Few people support closing US off from immigration. But immigration needs to be legal and based on good policies. Illegal immigration or bogus asylum seekers are not necessary to have a good economy.

What you are missing is that the majority of illegals are overstays, not people who sneaked across the border. You want to stop illegal immigration, you will need to prohibit people from entering the US. Including crews of vessels. That's why I'm saying it would destroy our economy.

The right goes on and on ad nauseum about the border and the wall.
1) His Flatulence's wall doesn't work, although it does make it a bit more dangerous. (Falls while crossing the wall. Expensive for the nearby trauma centers.)

Walls, or physical barriers, can work. Of course, physical barriers can be overcome. The point should not be to prevent crossing, but to slow illegals down so they can be apprehended. I.e. you need physical barriers that are monitored and patrolled.
Of course, all that is nullified if you have stupid laws that say that if an illegal is caught, all he has to do is say "asylum" and he gets to stay anyway, for years.

As you say, monitored and patrolled. Any idea what it would take to patrol that border? Hint: You would not like the price tag one bit.

2) It's just the border is easy enough to cross--if you did manage to seal it you would just cause them to come by boat.

Which makes it more difficult. The more easy you make it, the more decide it's worth a try. So making illegal crossings more difficult is a good goal.

The problem is it would come at a huge cost for a small benefit.

What should also happen is to make it more difficult to do things like work or find a place to live if you are illegal. That will also reduce the inward pressure and may even cause many to "self-deport".

Can you say "identity theft"? Until we can solve that all you'll accomplish is to bring pain for citizens.

There are ways to improve the situation. Unfortunately many on the Left want more illegals to come to the US, not fewer, and so they do not want to fix the problem, but to break it even more.

No, we recognize that it's a situation where the cure is worse than the disease and we recognize that much of the driving force is racism anyway.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Do these Venezuelans, e.g. those that DeSantis abused, sneak across the border? Or do they apply for asylum? Why conflate trans-border smuggling with asylum seeking? Is this just deliberate propaganda by admirers of Trump's Great Wall? In any event, I rather prefer U.S. governments that treat refugees with respect and as mandated by international law rather than von Clownsticks' obscene stunt of separating asylum-seekers from their young children.

And note that those aren't incompatible options.

His Flatulence made it basically impossible for those coming from the south to apply for asylum while outside the country. Thus the only path they had was to sneak in and then apply. Note that doing so is not illegal so long as you turn yourself in promptly. Note that this is actually how it normally works, you physically enter the US before legally doing so. AFIAK the only way to not do so is to fly in via a pre-clearance airport. Border control points are always on the soil of the country that owns the post, you must enter the country to reach it. It's just air and land travelers are corralled into border control points after entry. Sea travelers are not--you are legally expected to proceed to the border control point upon entry to a country's territorial waters but I'm not aware of any place with any sort of barriers preventing you from doing otherwise.

It does not appear to be legal to hike into the US, although I believe it was permitted in the past. Going the other way you can get (although currently suspended) a permit (effectively, a pre-clearance option) to continue into Canada at the end of the Pacific Crest Trail. (And there's a practical reason for this--the terminus is a lot closer to Canadian civilization than US civilization.)

 

[lpetrich]

The Recount on Twitter: "Watch the smiles and hugs between Martha's Vineyard residents and the Venezuelan migrants, who were recently flown there by Gov. Ron DeSantis (R-FL) in a political stunt, as they board buses to Joint Base Cape Cod. (vid link)" / Twitter
then
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "What a lot of Republican politicians ..." / Twitter

What a lot of Republican politicians fail to understand is that not everyone shares their zero-sum, scarcity mindset.

Many of us understand that immigrants and refugees are a blessing. They have so much to offer our country, & much of our growth as a nation is because of them.

Shout out to Massachusetts and the people of Martha’s Vineyard for showing the world what the best of America looks like

It’s unsurprising that they also send some of the best to Congress, like @ewarren, @EdMarkey, @AyannaPressley, @RepMcGovern, @RepKClark and so many more!

 

[Gun Nut]

Do these Venezuelans, e.g. those that DeSantis abused, sneak across the border? Or do they apply for asylum? Why conflate trans-border smuggling with asylum seeking? Is this just deliberate propaganda by admirers of Trump's Great Wall? In any event, I rather prefer U.S. governments that treat refugees with respect and as mandated by international law rather than von Clownsticks' obscene stunt of separating asylum-seekers from their young children.

On-going refugee crises around the world are a great humanitarian tragedy. It is sad to see sick, hateful and ignorant stunts from a country that once prided itself with the inscription on the Statue of Liberty:

... "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

And of course, as been explained multiple times, immigrants, legal or not, generally INCREASE American prosperity.

He transported people, who crossed the US border illegally, across US state lines. That means he has engaged in Human Trafficking, according to the Federal law.

 

[lpetrich]

John Cooper on Twitter: "AOC asking DeSantis and Abbott to send illegal aliens to her district." / Twitter
then
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "They already have! ...." / Twitter

They already have!

My district is nearly 50% immigrant. We speak 100+ languages, have 2 public hospitals that treat all regardless of status/income, and still have enough left over to help states like Florida.

We know how to care for each other, and are pretty damn good at it.

Try again. believe it or not the United States is the wealthiest nation in the world and we have more than enough to care for everyone. Instead of worshipping billionaires, if you try valuing your neighbors enough to fight for them then we can all have a better life, together.

We also have better food than you will probably ever have in your life.

People who don’t love immigrants don’t deserve momos!! Period!!

 Momo (food) - stuffed bite-size dumplings originally from Tibet

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "It’s appalling that far-right politicians ..." / Twitter

It’s appalling that far-right politicians seem to have decided that fall before an election is their regularly scheduled time to commit crimes against humanity on refugees.

Don’t normalize this. Lying to & trafficking people for TV and clicks isn’t politics as usual. It’s abuse.

They hope to bring out their base by showing what hypocrites the lib-buh-ruhls supposedly are.

AOC went on Instagram recently and she said that she thinks that many right-wingers seem think that lib-buh-ruhls share their prejudices without saying that they do. Thus, stunts like this one and the reverse Freedom RIdes.

 

[lpetrich]

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Not people calling others “illegal” ..." / Twitter

Not people calling others “illegal” as they fondly recall their last name is spelled the way it is because their great-grandpa came to the US with the equivalent of a misspelled post-it note

By today’s standards, most US families would have be deemed undocumented or trafficked at some point in their family history.

For the most part, people didn’t need lawyers and years of processing to come to this US until immigration became a racialized issue. Remember that

Reminds me of the spelling of my last name. My father's last name was originally Petrić - he's from Croatia. He changed it to Petrich to make it easier for English speakers, though he could have Anglicized it further to Peters.

Ted Cruz on Twitter: "The rich, liberal “people of Martha’s Vineyard” DEPORTED THE ILLEGAL ALIENS WITHIN 24 HOURS.
Glad to know that @aoc now tells us that’s “what the best of America looks like ”!" / Twitter
then
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "They were not deported. They were brought to shelter in the US. With no help from you.
Why lie to and traffic Venezuelan refugees? For votes? This is nuestra familia Latina. You should be standing up for them.
If it’s one thing we can count on you for, it’s being una vergüenza." / Twitter
"a shame"

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[lpetrich]

From ZiprHead's inlined tweet: The smoking gun in Martha's Vineyard - by Judd Legum

Popular Information has obtained documentary evidence that migrants from Venezuela were provided with false information to convince them to board flights chartered by Florida Governor Ron DeSantis (R). The documents suggest that the flights were not just a callous political stunt but potentially a crime.

... But many of the migrants told reporters that they were misled about the nature of the flights. Several migrants told NPR they were told the flight was going to Boston, not Martha's Vineyard. According to the migrants, a woman who identified herself as Perla also said that, if they traveled to Boston, they could receive "expedited work papers."

Seems like fraud. However, "DeSantis has been adamant that the migrants were not misled."

Popular Information, however, has obtained a brochure that was provided to the migrants who ultimately agreed to the flights. It was provided to Popular Information by Lawyers for Civil Rights (LCR), a Boston-based legal organization that represents 30 of the migrants. The brochure says that migrants who arrive in Massachusetts will be eligible for numerous benefits, including "8 months cash assistance," "assistance with housing," "food," "clothing," "transportation to job interviews," "job training," "job placement," "registering children for school," "assistance applying for Social Security cards," and many other benefits.

None of this, however, is true.

...
The brochure, which is crudely designed to resemble a government document, does not explain that these benefits described are only available to specially designated refugees.

According to some of the migrants, the benefits described in the brochure were also promised verbally by Perla to lure them onto the planes chartered by DeSantis. “[T]hey told us that they were going to help us with the rent, to get a job, that was the only option left to us,” one migrant, Eduardo Linares, told the Texas Tribune. (Linares ultimately declined to board the flight.)

 

[lpetrich]

Meridith McGraw on Twitter: ""“You have a moment,” Casey DeSantis, his wife and closest adviser, has said privately in recent months... The person speaking to her interpreted the remark unambiguously: The DeSantis family thinks this moment is theirs." via @mattfleg (link)" / Twitter
then
Amanda Marcotte on Twitter: "It is a minor thing, ...." / Twitter

It is a minor thing, but so telling that the only person DeSantis seems to talk to when he doesn’t have to is his wife.

My google-fu is failing me (maybe someone can find it?) but I remember reading an interview with a DeSantis aide who says that, when they're traveling, he doesn't talk or read or do anything to pass the time. Just stares into space. That's.....yeah.

It's telling that the best way to rise in the GOP ranks is to have severe personality disorders. Not sure what that one is. Trump's sociopathy drives him to be easily bored and to chatter all the time. DeSantis is something else.

Extreme introversion?

 

[Oleg]

From ZiprHead's inlined tweet: The smoking gun in Martha's Vineyard - by Judd Legum

Popular Information has obtained documentary evidence that migrants from Venezuela were provided with false information to convince them to board flights chartered by Florida Governor Ron DeSantis (R). The documents suggest that the flights were not just a callous political stunt but potentially a crime.

... But many of the migrants told reporters that they were misled about the nature of the flights. Several migrants told NPR they were told the flight was going to Boston, not Martha's Vineyard. According to the migrants, a woman who identified herself as Perla also said that, if they traveled to Boston, they could receive "expedited work papers."

Seems like fraud. However, "DeSantis has been adamant that the migrants were not misled."

Popular Information, however, has obtained a brochure that was provided to the migrants who ultimately agreed to the flights. It was provided to Popular Information by Lawyers for Civil Rights (LCR), a Boston-based legal organization that represents 30 of the migrants. The brochure says that migrants who arrive in Massachusetts will be eligible for numerous benefits, including "8 months cash assistance," "assistance with housing," "food," "clothing," "transportation to job interviews," "job training," "job placement," "registering children for school," "assistance applying for Social Security cards," and many other benefits.

None of this, however, is true.

...
The brochure, which is crudely designed to resemble a government document, does not explain that these benefits described are only available to specially designated refugees.

According to some of the migrants, the benefits described in the brochure were also promised verbally by Perla to lure them onto the planes chartered by DeSantis. “[T]hey told us that they were going to help us with the rent, to get a job, that was the only option left to us,” one migrant, Eduardo Linares, told the Texas Tribune. (Linares ultimately declined to board the flight.)

The brochure - regardless of who made it - clearly states in English and Spanish that it is for refugees. And the programs listed are legit.

 

[lpetrich]

Amanda Marcotte for Salon: Of course DeSantis flouts the law and human decency — He's just following Trump's example | Salon.com - "Some Republicans see DeSantis as a cleaned-up Trump. But their contempt for the rule of law is exactly the same"

She then tweeted Amanda Marcotte on Twitter: "The GOP commentariat ..." / Twitter

The GOP commentariat wants to believe that DeSantis is how they get Trump without all the scandal-mongering. But his willingness to use taxpayer dollars for human trafficking shows there is no such thing as a corruption-free fascism.

Because DeSantis is a robot whose only programming command is right wing grievance, the GOP establishment thinks he'll be free of Trump's tendency to commit crimes because he's a greedy grifter. But DeSantis just has a different set of goals that lead him to flout the law.

I have no doubt that the Harvard Law-educated DeSantis was well aware that defrauding and functionally kidnapping people is illegal, even if you do eventually release them. But he learned from Trump well: Our system is ill-equipped to hold politician-criminals accountable.

DeSantis also has nothing but contempt for the First Amendment, and is waging a war on free speech across Florida.

The Martha's Vineyard stunt wasn't even the first time this month DeSantis exploited people for a political stunt by defrauding them. He's gotten 20 people arrested for "illegal" voting, even though the state told them they had a right to vote.

DeSantis has a different strategy for shielding himself from consequence than Trump, to be sure. But they share a contempt for rule of law and an eagerness to impress their fascist supporters with abuse of power.

 

[Oleg]

Meridith McGraw on Twitter: ""“You have a moment,” Casey DeSantis, his wife and closest adviser, has said privately in recent months... The person speaking to her interpreted the remark unambiguously: The DeSantis family thinks this moment is theirs." via @mattfleg (link)" / Twitter
then
Amanda Marcotte on Twitter: "It is a minor thing, ...." / Twitter

It is a minor thing, but so telling that the only person DeSantis seems to talk to when he doesn’t have to is his wife.

My google-fu is failing me (maybe someone can find it?) but I remember reading an interview with a DeSantis aide who says that, when they're traveling, he doesn't talk or read or do anything to pass the time. Just stares into space. That's.....yeah.

It's telling that the best way to rise in the GOP ranks is to have severe personality disorders. Not sure what that one is. Trump's sociopathy drives him to be easily bored and to chatter all the time. DeSantis is something else.

Extreme introversion?

Like that Austrian corporal.

 

[Oleg]

Amanda Marcotte for Salon: Of course DeSantis flouts the law and human decency — He's just following Trump's example | Salon.com - "Some Republicans see DeSantis as a cleaned-up Trump. But their contempt for the rule of law is exactly the same"

She then tweeted Amanda Marcotte on Twitter: "The GOP commentariat ..." / Twitter

The GOP commentariat wants to believe that DeSantis is how they get Trump without all the scandal-mongering. But his willingness to use taxpayer dollars for human trafficking shows there is no such thing as a corruption-free fascism.

Because DeSantis is a robot whose only programming command is right wing grievance, the GOP establishment thinks he'll be free of Trump's tendency to commit crimes because he's a greedy grifter. But DeSantis just has a different set of goals that lead him to flout the law.

I have no doubt that the Harvard Law-educated DeSantis was well aware that defrauding and functionally kidnapping people is illegal, even if you do eventually release them. But he learned from Trump well: Our system is ill-equipped to hold politician-criminals accountable.

DeSantis also has nothing but contempt for the First Amendment, and is waging a war on free speech across Florida.

The Martha's Vineyard stunt wasn't even the first time this month DeSantis exploited people for a political stunt by defrauding them. He's gotten 20 people arrested for "illegal" voting, even though the state told them they had a right to vote.

DeSantis has a different strategy for shielding himself from consequence than Trump, to be sure. But they share a contempt for rule of law and an eagerness to impress their fascist supporters with abuse of power.

He made the media and Dems talk about a subject they desparately want to avoid.

 

[Bomb#20]

You're confused. I'm not defending Derec's conclusion; I'm defending Derec. The only thing I'm doubling down on is that "Oh, look! An immigrant complaining about immigrants and immigration." was a personal attack and a misleading half-truth. It's painfully obvious that Derec wasn't proposing they should be sent to Mexico City or Rwanda for immigrating; therefore ZH's accusation of a double standard was misplaced. ...

...
Derec's post deserved <opinion snipped>. Your rebuttal that the ZH response was a half-truth is incorrect

Of course it was correct. ZH left out the highly relevant circumstance that Derec was a legal immigrant complaining about illegal immigration, in order to paint him as not holding himself to the same standard he holds others to, without actually backing up the accusation. That's "half-truth" to a T.

since Derec could have easily not obtained citizenship due to regular non-remorseful criminality.

Whether we agree with that law Derec breaks or any other laws you allege the "line cutters" broke is immaterial.

Of course it's material. Like Jarhyn said, "Oh come off that. I break the laws, you break the laws, coo-coo for cashews". It's said the average American commits three felonies a day. Getting permission to come to America does not involve committing yourself to turn off your brain and pretend all crimes are created equal.

The persons in question are all decent people, including Derec. Immigrant is not an insult.

Of course it's not an insult. Nobody but Jimmy used "immigrant" as an insult. ZH's insult was his unsupported accusation of hypocrisy.

 

[lpetrich]

Of course DeSantis flouts the law and human decency — He's just following Trump's example | Salon.com
also referring to ZiprHead's tweet

In a statement released Saturday, Lawyers for Civil Rights (LCR) in Boston said that the migrants "were induced to board airplanes and cross state lines under false pretenses," such as promises "of work opportunities, schooling for their children, and immigration assistance." That strategy is far too reminiscent of the ones used by human traffickers who force migrants into poorly-paid jobs in construction, janitorial services and even sex work against their will.

Was it legal for DeSantis to fly immigrants to Martha's Vineyard? : NPR - "Immigration law experts suggest DeSantis may have trafficked migrants"

AM then went into how Trump and DeSantis have gotten away with so many misdeeds.

Sending migrants to Martha's Vineyard under false pretenses wasn't even DeSantis' first instance of defrauding or manipulating marginalized people. A few weeks ago, he staged another racist agitprop spectacle at taxpayer expense, ordering public arrests of 20 people, most of them Black, for alleged voting fraud. Reporters soon found out that those people had incorrectly been told by election officials that their voting rights had been restored after they had served felony sentences. Some of them may now be going to jail over a bureaucratic error that wasn't their fault — but the important part was that DeSantis got to show the MAGA base images of Black people in handcuffs for "illegal" voting. As voting rights advocates point out, white people who knowingly committed voter fraud to vote for Trump multiple times are getting slaps on the wrists.

She then notes some differences between Trump and DeSantis. "Trump commits whatever crimes he wants, from sexual assault to extortion to theft to seditious conspiracy, and then rolls out a phalanx of lawyers, his political power and a strategy of constant counterattack to shield himself from consequences." while "DeSantis, as the Harvard-educated attorney he is, knows how to insulate himself from personal consequences by making his law-flouting part of his supposedly official duties as governor."

She concludes that "They have no respect for the law, and they're happy to trample it underfoot to get what they want."

 

[Copernicus]

From ZiprHead's inlined tweet: The smoking gun in Martha's Vineyard - by Judd Legum

Popular Information has obtained documentary evidence that migrants from Venezuela were provided with false information to convince them to board flights chartered by Florida Governor Ron DeSantis (R). The documents suggest that the flights were not just a callous political stunt but potentially a crime.

... But many of the migrants told reporters that they were misled about the nature of the flights. Several migrants told NPR they were told the flight was going to Boston, not Martha's Vineyard. According to the migrants, a woman who identified herself as Perla also said that, if they traveled to Boston, they could receive "expedited work papers."

Seems like fraud. However, "DeSantis has been adamant that the migrants were not misled."

Popular Information, however, has obtained a brochure that was provided to the migrants who ultimately agreed to the flights. It was provided to Popular Information by Lawyers for Civil Rights (LCR), a Boston-based legal organization that represents 30 of the migrants. The brochure says that migrants who arrive in Massachusetts will be eligible for numerous benefits, including "8 months cash assistance," "assistance with housing," "food," "clothing," "transportation to job interviews," "job training," "job placement," "registering children for school," "assistance applying for Social Security cards," and many other benefits.

None of this, however, is true.

...
The brochure, which is crudely designed to resemble a government document, does not explain that these benefits described are only available to specially designated refugees.

According to some of the migrants, the benefits described in the brochure were also promised verbally by Perla to lure them onto the planes chartered by DeSantis. “[T]hey told us that they were going to help us with the rent, to get a job, that was the only option left to us,” one migrant, Eduardo Linares, told the Texas Tribune. (Linares ultimately declined to board the flight.)

The brochure - regardless of who made it - clearly states in English and Spanish that it is for refugees. And the programs listed are legit.

The legitimacy of the brochure is not in question. Its use as a means of luring asylum seekers onto an aircraft with false promises is at issue. The victims were first told that they were going to Boston, but they were told during the flight that they were going to Martha's Vineyard. When the plane landed, the people who had lured them onto the plane disappeared. This is why:

Lawyers representing migrants dumped on Martha's Vineyard want Florida Gov. DeSantis criminally investigated over the 'stunt'​

DeSantis himself, like Trump, is essentially above the law, but they can go after the people his administration hired to carry out the fraud.

 

[Jarhyn]

From ZiprHead's inlined tweet: The smoking gun in Martha's Vineyard - by Judd Legum

Popular Information has obtained documentary evidence that migrants from Venezuela were provided with false information to convince them to board flights chartered by Florida Governor Ron DeSantis (R). The documents suggest that the flights were not just a callous political stunt but potentially a crime.

... But many of the migrants told reporters that they were misled about the nature of the flights. Several migrants told NPR they were told the flight was going to Boston, not Martha's Vineyard. According to the migrants, a woman who identified herself as Perla also said that, if they traveled to Boston, they could receive "expedited work papers."

Seems like fraud. However, "DeSantis has been adamant that the migrants were not misled."

Popular Information, however, has obtained a brochure that was provided to the migrants who ultimately agreed to the flights. It was provided to Popular Information by Lawyers for Civil Rights (LCR), a Boston-based legal organization that represents 30 of the migrants. The brochure says that migrants who arrive in Massachusetts will be eligible for numerous benefits, including "8 months cash assistance," "assistance with housing," "food," "clothing," "transportation to job interviews," "job training," "job placement," "registering children for school," "assistance applying for Social Security cards," and many other benefits.

None of this, however, is true.

...
The brochure, which is crudely designed to resemble a government document, does not explain that these benefits described are only available to specially designated refugees.

According to some of the migrants, the benefits described in the brochure were also promised verbally by Perla to lure them onto the planes chartered by DeSantis. “[T]hey told us that they were going to help us with the rent, to get a job, that was the only option left to us,” one migrant, Eduardo Linares, told the Texas Tribune. (Linares ultimately declined to board the flight.)

The brochure - regardless of who made it - clearly states in English and Spanish that it is for refugees. And the programs listed are legit.

The legitimacy of the brochure is not in question. Its use as a means of luring asylum seekers onto an aircraft with false promises is at issue. The victims were first told that they were going to Boston, but they were told during the flight that they were going to Martha's Vineyard. When the plane landed, the people who had lured them onto the plane disappeared. This is why:

Lawyers representing migrants dumped on Martha's Vineyard want Florida Gov. DeSantis criminally investigated over the 'stunt'​

DeSantis himself, like Trump, is essentially above the law, but they can go after the people his administration hired to carry out the fraud.

I don't think DeSantis ought be allowed to skate like this.

DeSantis can be politically castrated with a felony charge, and should be... Which is ironic insofar as it will have been more or less reaping the receiving end of what he did with regards to disenfranchisement to others.