DeSantis Flies Immigrants to Martha Vineyard

[SLD]

I ahve to agree in priciple.

The border situaion is insane and out of control. There is no way to provide suport on such a scale, yet democrts do nothing, VP Harris siad 'the border is secure;. A this point my only conclusion is that the democrats want an iflux of non whites to cnage the power balance.

Yexas and the pole living on the borer are going throuh a lot of pain with the endless flood.

The last governor of Ca said on national TV that Ca welomes illegal immigrants.

I am not a conservativee, but if I were governor of Texas I'd be dumping immigrants in democratic cities to make a point. The illegal immigrants are very much being dumpoed on Texas.

Stating te obvious. If yiu are qustioning what Texas and Florida re doing what are you not questioning the border policy which the left seems to want as is. The policy at the root of the issues.

You may not be conservative, but it appears you've bought the conservative narrative that the border was just hunky dory until Biden became President and implemented an "open borders" policy, effectively removing any impediments from crossing said border. To hear the right wing tell it, the mighty wall has been torn down, the checkpoints are unmanned, and the Border Patrol is no longer allowed to intercept migrants, but instead are spending their days watching "woke" Disney movies instead of doing their jobs.

Actually illegal border crossings are up significantly under Biden.


But it’s hardly the biggest problem we face. You can see they went down significantly under Bush II. Obama kept them down. Trump’s complaint was absurd. They soared under him. But really jumped more recently.

The real problem is that we need immigrants to do our dirty work cheaply. This country has always relied on cheap immigrant labor for really crappy jobs. The only people who should be getting upset about the issue are those who aspire to be vegetable pickers at minimum wage - or less.

we severely restricted immigration in 1926. 3 years later our economy collapsed. I don’t see that as THE cause of the Great Depression, but restricting movement of people is not much different than restricting movement of goods. Trade and economy suffers.

The anti immigration stance of the Republican Party is nothing but theater. A chance to find a fake scapegoat that has no voting power, and motivate the base to come out.

 

[bilby]

Actually illegal border crossings are up significantly under Biden.

If they are, that graph cannot demonstrate it. Read the footnote: "Beginning in 2020, annual totals combine expulsions and apprehensions ... before fiscal 2020 include apprehensions only"

That A+B is higher than A should surprise nobody. That it wasn't higher in 2020 should, given Covid, likewise surprise nobody.

That graph appears to show something that it in fact admits it cannot possibly show; That is, it's propaganda.

Maybe a graph that consistently showed the same data would also show an uptick in border crossings. But if so, I am wondering why they chose not to show that graph, and instead presented us with this nonsensical one.

 

[SLD]

Here’s encounters for 2019 - 2020. They are up from 2019. But Bilby is right, not by as much as the other chart.

 

[Jarhyn]

Actually illegal border crossings are up significantly under Biden.

If they are, that graph cannot demonstrate it. Read the footnote: "Beginning in 2020, annual totals combine expulsions and apprehensions ... before fiscal 2020 include apprehensions only"

That A+B is higher than A should surprise nobody. That it wasn't higher in 2020 should, given Covid, likewise surprise nobody.

That graph appears to show something that it in fact admits it cannot possibly show; That is, it's propaganda.

Maybe a graph that consistently showed the same data would also show an uptick in border crossings. But if so, I am wondering why they chose not to show that graph, and instead presented us with this nonsensical one.

Because it presents apparent support for their narrative and a lie gets around the world while the truth gets it's boots on.

 

[The Colourful Jester]

Texas Gov. Abbott sends 50 migrants to VP Harris' home

Fifty more migrants arrived outside Vice President Kamala Harris's residence courtesy of Texas Gov. Greg Abbott.

abcnews.go.com

Is this new? This Abbott really is going to be a pain about this.

 

[Swammerdami]

Do these Venezuelans, e.g. those that DeSantis abused, sneak across the border? Or do they apply for asylum? Why conflate trans-border smuggling with asylum seeking? Is this just deliberate propaganda by admirers of Trump's Great Wall? In any event, I rather prefer U.S. governments that treat refugees with respect and as mandated by international law rather than von Clownsticks' obscene stunt of separating asylum-seekers from their young children.

On-going refugee crises around the world are a great humanitarian tragedy. It is sad to see sick, hateful and ignorant stunts from a country that once prided itself with the inscription on the Statue of Liberty:

... "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

And of course, as been explained multiple times, immigrants, legal or not, generally INCREASE American prosperity.

 

[Swammerdami]

As a fellow Radical Centrist — though we sometimes fall on the opposite fringes of that great movement! — I often feel compelled to defend Derec.

Soliciting prostitutes is seen as a serious crime by many jurisdictions,

So was gay sex. And still is, in many jurisdictions outside the US.

That same argument could be made for legalizing pretty much everything we do. I am a safe driver, I take care of my car, and I believe I should have the right to drive at any speed I deem to be safe on the public roads. Therefore, it is ok for me to break the law by exceeding the posted speed limits.

Maybe. Do you whine when the cops give you a speeding ticket? I didn't hear Derec whine when he was caught in a sting operation at Madame Gigi's cat-house. Lots of us break laws and take our chances.

What is hypocrisy is ignoring illegal pot smoking by liberals because we agree with their politics, but ranting against victimless crimes when we don't like the perp's politics.

Derec took on oath to obey the law but I can't recall taking one myself. In your opinion are laws more binding on naturalized citizens than on those born on U.S. soil?

 

[Ford]

I was trying to put my finger on just what sort of people DeSantis and Abbott are...guys who would exploit vulnerable people and then laugh about it. Then I remembered a scene from one of my favorite movies:



That's them. Just like the mortgage brokers. "I don't get it...why are they confessing?" "They're not confessing. They're bragging."

That's the thing. Abbott and DeSantis think this is not only funny, they're fucking proud of it. Douchebags.

 

[ZiprHead]

Did Derec come the the US illegally? Or did he follow the rules?

The latter.

So are the migrants who are applying for asylum. I assume that's exactly how you did it.

Why on earth would you assume that? Grants of asylum account for about 3% of green cards.

Derec said he was given admission after a grenade went off next to his house. It wasn't an education or work admission, therefore I assume an asylum claim due to the danger of staying where he was at. But I accept the fact that I could be wrong. Maybe Derec can clear this up for us.

 

[southernhybrid]

I'm going to gift another article about the dire need for more workers in the US. Imo, this is another good reason why we should be hurrying up the asylum process and bringing in lots of new immigrants. I'm not saying these people should be underpaid or mistreated. We need more people in all kinds of jobs, including health care, education, retail, as well as the less desirable jobs, like meat packing etc.

https://wapo.st/3QTpKvB

With more than 11 million job openings and only 6 million unemployed workers, employers have struggled for more than a year to hire enough people to fill their ranks. That mismatch has left employees frustrated and burnt out, and is fueling a new round of power struggles on the job.

While the railway dispute, which the White House helped resolve early Thursday, has garnered the most attention, a number of other strikes are spreading across the United States. Some 15,000 nurses walked out of the job in Minnesota this week, and health-care workers in Michigan and Oregon have recently authorized strikes. Seattle teachers called off a week-long strike, delaying the start of the school year.
At the center of each of these challenges are widespread labor shortages that have caused deteriorating working conditions. Staffing shortfalls in key industries, such as health care, hospitality and education, have put unprecedented pressure on millions of workers, igniting a wave of labor disputes as well as new efforts to organize nationwide.
Everything you need to know about the averted rail strike
Too many industries are still struggling to find workers. The share of working-age Americans who have a job or are looking for one is at 62.4 percent, a full percentage point lower than it was in February 2020, according to Labor Department data.
The reasons are complex and broad. Early retirements, a massive slowdown in immigration that began during the Trump administration, as well as ongoing child care and elder care challenges combined with covid-related illnesses and deaths have all cut into the number of available workers.

So, exactly who is going to fill most of those jobs if we don't welcome in large numbers of immigrants? It only takes a few months to train a certified nurses aide and they are desperately needed. The nursing home where my mother lives is mostly staffed by immigrants and they do a great job of caring for her. I think the article I linked includes a story about a teacher's aide who quit because she was under terrible stress from staffing shortages. I'm sure there must be some immigrants that would happily work as teacher's aides, or teachers for those that have the qualifications. In fact, I worked with a Mexican immigrant who left her low paying job as an aide to take a job as a teacher's aide. I assume the school was going to train her. I also knew an undocumented Mexican couple. He worked as a cook in a Mexican restaurant. He rode his bicycle to get there. Imo, this couple should have been given green cards, as they were an asset to the local community. We need these people as much as they need us. The hate and xenophobia is hurting the country.

In my small city, there are help wanted signs almost everywhere. Immigrants are usually hard workers, willing to take on the kind of work that many Americans won't, as a way to prove themselves. You get the point! The article mentions that Trump's hateful attitude towards immigrants made the situation worse.

WTF is wrong with the hateful Republican governors who are treating asylum seekers so inhumanely? It would be in their own interest to allow more immigration, as we desperately need more workers. Their refusal to accept this will have a very negative impact on our economy.

Bringing in more immigrants to help ease the worker shortage would also help lower the stress of the Americans who are already doing some of these jobs, being forced to work long hours and stressed out due to staffing shortages.

 

[Politesse]

I get the fact that TX and other border states are bearing the brunt of the immigrants and trying to figure out what to do with them. I think what these governors are doing is interesting, except that they need to warn the cities that they are sending them to that they are coming and how many. I think that has happened in some instances, and they need to inform these poor people and get their consent and not coerce them. However, what is the cost of dealing with the immigrants versus shipping them elsewhere? Are they overspending tax dollars to make a political point? Probably.

This is dumb political theater. It has always been INS' strategy to settle refugees and other legal immigrants in various cities around the country, not just El Paso. It has also always been their policy to deport undocumented persons if they find them. These politicians aren't requesting any concrete, usable policy changes. They're just bleating for attention to impress their base, and blatantly violating immigration law to do it.

 

[Rhea]

Couple of thoughts:

DeSantis had no obligation to warn Martha’s Vineyard. He’s not warned, why should they be. Nor do I consider his stunt inhumane, really. He sent them to a more open and welcoming entrance point.

Notwithstanding the above, his stunt was stupid.

If he spent the $12M on properly processing asylum seekers, he could help clear the queue and get people resettled in other cities as soon as their asylum is granted.

All his stunt has proven is that we need more resources to separate valid asylum claims from invalid ones.
Step 2 will be to improve what “valid asylum claim” means in a more humane way, and spped up successful resettlement.

 

[Copernicus]

Couple of thoughts:

DeSantis had no obligation to warn Martha’s Vineyard. He’s not warned, why should they be. Nor do I consider his stunt inhumane, really. He sent them to a more open and welcoming entrance point.

Notwithstanding the above, his stunt was stupid.

If he spent the $12M on properly processing asylum seekers, he could help clear the queue and get people resettled in other cities as soon as their asylum is granted.

All his stunt has proven is that we need more resources to separate valid asylum claims from invalid ones.
Step 2 will be to improve what “valid asylum claim” means in a more humane way, and spped up successful resettlement.

But not everyone is being sent to Martha's Vineyard. Many have been dumped in Washington DC and bussed to Vice President Harris's home. What makes it inhumane is that the Republican governors are deliberately scamming the refugees with false promises of jobs and benefits. The refugees are being tricked into going without their permission in order to help these governors with their election campaigns. The immigrants themselves are saying that they were deceived lured into the stunt with false promises. Many of the refugees were put in danger of missing their mandatory court appointments in Florida so that the government had to make arrangements to hold them in Massachusetts. There are serious questions about the legality of what DeSantis and Abbott are doing, but DeSantis absolutely did have a moral obligation to warn Massachusetts about what he was doing.

 

[laughing dog]

If Governors DeSantis and Abbott feel their stunts will help bring about a national consensus and policy on immigration, then they are sadly mistaken. While these stunts are red meat to Magas, white nationalists and nativists, they are nasty turds to rational humane people. These stunts will have the effect of making the compromises necessary to enact a sane, effective policy (whatever form it takes) on immigration.

 

[jonatha]

Not just any immigrant, an immigrant who habitually breaks the laws of the land and talks about it online.

Ah yes, the tired old "sex work" derail every time a Prohibitionist runs out of arguments in any thread. It usually does not happen this quickly. Congrats, I guess. Not as common as the "but Trump" derail, but still pretty common.

You didn't make any arguments, you made a snarky comment about shipping refugee seekers to somewhere in Africa, presumably because they did not enter the country without legal documentation. I was pointing out the hypocrisy in your position.

Oh come off that. I break the laws, you break the laws, coo-coo for cashews* and all that.

I do not get the cashews joke, but the laws against sex work are really no different than laws against gay sex. Both should have been invalidated under the logic behind Lawrence v. Texas, not just the latter.

Still, it's a phenomena of an artificially erected barrier wherein those who overcome the artificial barrier will often feel desert for having done so, superiority over those who have not, and attempt to close off opportunities behind them.

If you want to have a country, borders are essential. That does not mean no immigration, I never made that argument. But we need clear laws and policies about immigration, and we need to enforce them. Sanctuary cities/states or a president deciding he will not deport most illegals should be anathema.

What about people who have entered the US legally but habitually break its laws? Should we send them back too? Since they took an oath to uphold the laws of t

Couple of thoughts:

DeSantis had no obligation to warn Martha’s Vineyard. He’s not warned, why should they be. Nor do I consider his stunt inhumane, really. He sent them to a more open and welcoming entrance point.

Notwithstanding the above, his stunt was stupid.

If he spent the $12M on properly processing asylum seekers, he could help clear the queue and get people resettled in other cities as soon as their asylum is granted.

All his stunt has proven is that we need more resources to separate valid asylum claims from invalid ones.
Step 2 will be to improve what “valid asylum claim” means in a more humane way, and spped up successful resettlement.

Of course desantis was warned. The people he sent to Martha's vineyard flew to Massachusetts from Texas. They were never in Florida...

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[Copernicus]

Calling legal asylum seekers "illegal immigrants" is the central lie here that Republicans want to fix in the minds of their political base. Scapegoating immigrants is an old tactic in the playbook of right wing extremists, and the fact that the son of a man granted political asylum in the US is particularly disgusting.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

The hypocrisy on display in this situation is so blatant there really isn't anything I can say to further illustrate it. Wow.

 

[Patooka]

And yet you still felt the need.

 

[laughing dog]

Calling legal asylum seekers "illegal immigrants" is the central lie here that Republicans want to fix in the minds of their political base. Scapegoating immigrants is an old tactic in the playbook of right wing extremists, and the fact that the son of a man granted political asylum in the US is particularly disgusting.

It is Senator Cruz, so particularly disgusting is perhaps an understatement.