Discipline for children

[gmbteach]

I saw this meme today on Facebook:

and it got me to wondering do you think society has gone too far in the change in discipline?

Myself? I was spanked as a child, put in time out etc. It didn't hurt me. It taught me respect for right and wrong. You did wrong, you got a spank. Mum even had degrees of wooden spoon given on the severity of the offence!

What do you think?

 

[Angry Floof]

Now we know that spanking causes damage to the brain and nervous system and sets up children for lives of psychological and emotional suffering.

So basically the ignoramus who wrote that thinks damaged, dysfunctional adults do a good job "running the world." Yeah, the world looks awesome with all these previously spanked adults running it, doesn't it?

The cartoon straw man of coddled children being what's wrong with the world reveals incredible ignorance of human behavior and psychology as well as blatantly stupid logic.

P.s. That's not really a meme. The meme here is social commentary in e-card format. Conservatives have a hard time generating actual memes that essentially spread themselves around based on their content. The content has to be funny or contain some bit of relevant truth to power itself and bat shit, unexamined tradition doesn't quite cut it for long as a popular meme. (This kind of thing usually ends up being the butt of jokes instead, like the IAmARepublican hashtag that got hijacked by people making fun of Republicans before it got out of the gate. haha)

 

[dx713]

I saw this meme today on Facebook:

and it got me to wondering do you think society has gone too far in the change in discipline?

Myself? I was spanked as a child, put in time out etc. It didn't hurt me. It taught me respect for right and wrong. You did wrong, you got a spank. Mum even had degrees of wooden spoon given on the severity of the offence!

What do you think?

I wasn't spanked and I like to think I know right from wrong and am quite respectful of others.
I did spank my kids a bit for a while, and with hindsight, it did more harm than good. I view it as a failure, and not as something good I did.
So, no, I don't think we've gone too far.

The problem is not spanking or not. The problem is parenting takes time and attention. We don't always have that available. When you don't, you can try to control your kids by spanking, with the resultant risks, or you can let them lack limits, with the resultant risks too. But the problem with the coddled children strawman isn't with the not-spanking, it's with the lack of attention.

 

[gmbteach]

I saw this meme today on Facebook:

and it got me to wondering do you think society has gone too far in the change in discipline?

Myself? I was spanked as a child, put in time out etc. It didn't hurt me. It taught me respect for right and wrong. You did wrong, you got a spank. Mum even had degrees of wooden spoon given on the severity of the offence!

What do you think?

I wasn't spanked and I like to think I know right from wrong and am quite respectful of others.
I did spank my kids a bit for a while, and with hindsight, it did more harm than good. I view it as a failure, and not as something good I did.
So, no, I don't think we've gone too far.

The problem is not spanking or not. The problem is parenting takes time and attention. We don't always have that available. When you don't, you can try to control your kids by spanking, with the resultant risks, or you can let them lack limits, with the resultant risks too. But the problem with the coddled children strawman isn't with the not-spanking, it's with the lack of attention.

Fair enough. My own upbringing revolved around my parents both working, Dad much more so than mum. I also grew up in a housing commission area and was the only child in the street with a dad, so my dad was dad for all the kids in the street. You would hear up and down the street 'You just wait till Mr B comes home!' from the mums. Dad would come home and would be greeted by the kids, with their deeds written on notes, and Dad would mete out the punishment. All of the kids in my street (with the exception of the kid caught having sex with a dog) grew up to be responsible kids. So I guess you could be right about the attention thing.

 

[dx713]

Kids are very resilient.
Most will grow being decent adults despite being spanked (sparingly, lightly), or starved of attention (once again, lightly).

But I really think I would have been a better dad if spanking had been banned in my house from the get-go. It would have forced me to find alternate ways to deal with the kids, who, honestly, were (still are, but I'm not spanking anymore) good kids. I think my brothers and I have given much worse problem to my parents, and they managed to never raise a hand, the worst they did was some time-outs, and both of them worked.
I really see the difference in behaviour between the sons (who have been spanked) and the daughter (who hasn't). Okay, kids also have their own character from the beginning, but I don't think it all boils down to that. And even if it did, spanking was definitely the wrong solution with my boys.

All in all, I tend toward the "spanking is wrong" approach, because I think spanking has more risks of degenerating into something damaging for the kids once it's been normalized. Plus, it would undermine all the patricarchal / authoritarian theories that see education as a battle between parents and kids and that you have to "break the will" of a child, those can lead to real bad beatings and/or future behaviour problems.

 

[gmbteach]

I don't see being spanked as 'breaking the will' within me or my brothers. We knew we had done wrong - especially if mum brought out the BIG wooden spoon. We learned to recognise how wrong our action was by how severely we were punished. A good lesson IMO.

 

[dx713]

I don't see being spanked as 'breaking the will' within me or my brothers. We knew we had done wrong - especially if mum brought out the BIG wooden spoon. We learned to recognise how wrong our action was by how severely we were punished. A good lesson IMO.

I sure hope you don't! I see you as a sensible person.
I was just mentionning that those people exist, and that abandonning spanking as a social norm has the added advantage of limiting their ability to act on their crazy theories or spread them.

 

[gmbteach]

I don't see being spanked as 'breaking the will' within me or my brothers. We knew we had done wrong - especially if mum brought out the BIG wooden spoon. We learned to recognise how wrong our action was by how severely we were punished. A good lesson IMO.

I sure hope you don't! I see you as a sensible person.
I was just mentionning that those people exist, and that abandonning spanking as a social norm has the added advantage of limiting their ability to act on their crazy theories or spread them.

I agree that there is a difference between discipline and abuse. Discipline is where you receive a consequence or punishment (I prefer consequence) for a wrongdoing. Abuse is where punishments are meted out willy nilly. To me, herein lies the difference.

 

[chrisengland]

I think kids need discipline but I thin if you can find a way of disciplining a child without it it is better.

 

[gmbteach]

I think kids need discipline but I thin if you can find a way of disciplining a child without it it is better.

Excuse me? You may need to elaborate Chris.

 

[chrisengland]

I saw this meme today on Facebook:

and it got me to wondering do you think society has gone too far in the change in discipline?


What do you think?

I wasn't spanked and I like to think I know right from wrong and am quite respectful of others.
I did spank my kids a bit for a while, and with hindsight, it did more harm than good. I view it as a failure, and not as something good I did.
So, no, I don't think we've gone too far.

The problem is not spanking or not. The problem is parenting takes time and attention. We don't always have that available. When you don't, you can try to control your kids by spanking, with the resultant risks, or you can let them lack limits, with the resultant risks too. But the problem with the coddled children strawman isn't with the not-spanking, it's with the lack of attention.

Myself? I was spanked as a child, put in time out etc. It didn't hurt me. It taught me respect for right and wrong. You did wrong, you got a spank. Mum even had degrees of wooden spoon given on the severity of the offence!





I think part of the problem is also that some people are having kids to young and they are not ready for them. I'm not a parent so I don't like to criticize but I see girls with kids and they just don't know how to handle them. They shout and swear at their kids for not keeping up with them and things like that. And also a few bad grapes can spoil the bunch, it only takes a few kids who are raised the wrong way to heavily influence other kids. Personally if I ever have kids I would do a parenting class and I think it is something that should be heavily encourages because I think a lot of people don't know how to look after kids.

- - - Updated - - -

 

[RavenSky]

The fact that cartoon man appears to be praying while he says that tells me a lot about the person who created it, and IMO he's the scary one.

I am fine with acknowledging that many adults were spanked as children yet still grew up fine. That still doesn't make it a valid, effective, or reasonable form of child-rearing.

In years of having this discussion, not one pro-spanking person has ever been able to give me a single example of something positive that spanking accomplishes that a non-spanking approach would not also solve.

 

[chrisengland]

I think kids need discipline but I thin if you can find a way of disciplining a child without it it is better.

Excuse me? You may need to elaborate Chris.

Well there are other ways of disciplining kids without spanking and I think they may be better if you know how to use them properly.

 

[RavenSky]

I agree that there is a difference between discipline and abuse. Discipline is where you receive a consequence or punishment (I prefer consequence) for a wrongdoing. Abuse is where punishments are meted out willy nilly. To me, herein lies the difference.

This, unfortunately, is not accurate. Abuse is very often the end result of "consequences" for a child's misbehavior. Just because the child misbehaved in some genuine fashion does not make being beaten into a legitimate discipline.

 

[RavenSky]

I think part of the problem is also that some people are having kids to young and they are not ready for them. I'm not a parent so I don't like to criticize but I see girls with kids and they just don't know how to handle them. They shout and swear at their kids for not keeping up with them and things like that. And also a few bad grapes can spoil the bunch, it only takes a few kids who are raised the wrong way to heavily influence other kids. Personally if I ever have kids I would do a parenting class and I think it is something that should be heavily encourages because I think a lot of people don't know how to look after kids.

^^^^ wise words from the young man with no children yet. Good post Chris!

 

[chrisengland]

I agree. I'm against spanking because I don't think it is a controlled form of discipline. If you do it when you are angry a parent can do it harder than they intend to. Also I would imagine it can cause a lot of emotional stress for the parent as well. Although I have never had a child I have hit my dog a few times in anger and it makes me quite upset sometimes that I did it. Also I think some parents deny they ever did it in the first place. My Dad was heavily disciplined by his Dad and so he doesn't consider that he ever hit me or my sister even though we both maintain that he did he simply denies I because by his Dad's standards it was hardly anything.

- - - Updated - - -

I think part of the problem is also that some people are having kids to young and they are not ready for them. I'm not a parent so I don't like to criticize but I see girls with kids and they just don't know how to handle them. They shout and swear at their kids for not keeping up with them and things like that. And also a few bad grapes can spoil the bunch, it only takes a few kids who are raised the wrong way to heavily influence other kids. Personally if I ever have kids I would do a parenting class and I think it is something that should be heavily encourages because I think a lot of people don't know how to look after kids.

^^^^ wise words from the young man with no children yet. Good post Chris!

As I said I don't like to be to critical as I don't have my own children and don't know what kind of parent I would be yet.

 

[NobleSavage]

No one has mentioned giving out trophies for participation. You don't get on the honor role for participation. We shouldn't give out trophies in sports for participation. Well, at a very young age when the kids are just learning how to play the sport, that's fine.

 

[RavenSky]

No one has mentioned giving out trophies for participation. You don't get on the honor role for participation. We shouldn't give out trophies in sports for participation. Well, at a very young age when the kids are just learning how to play the sport, that's fine.

Dancer's don't get "participation trophies" so I don't know how pervasive this practice is. Do you have examples of older, more experienced sports players receiving "participation trophies"?

 

[NobleSavage]

No one has mentioned giving out trophies for participation. You don't get on the honor role for participation. We shouldn't give out trophies in sports for participation. Well, at a very young age when the kids are just learning how to play the sport, that's fine.

Dancer's don't get "participation trophies" so I don't know how pervasive this practice is. Do you have examples of older, more experienced sports players receiving "participation trophies"?

I don't have kids so I don't really know what is going on. I was just going off the cartoon.

 

[Playball40]

I don't see being spanked as 'breaking the will' within me or my brothers. We knew we had done wrong - especially if mum brought out the BIG wooden spoon. We learned to recognise how wrong our action was by how severely we were punished. A good lesson IMO.

Did you know you did something wrong because you saw a big spoon or because you knew you really could see the consequence of the action?