Discrimination against Bernie "bros"?

[Jolly_Penguin]

I think a big part of it is that only men get labeled with such negative modifiers. There are overzealous female followers of female candidates but they not given negative epithets by the media.
And there is certainly "toxic femininity" just like there is "toxic masculinity". But by only talking about the latter (and overly broadly, even when it doesn't really apply) and never about the former, it is not unreasonable to think that those who use those labels have a negative view of men in


Who does that?

Quite a few women who have been hounded by Bernie Bros had the words used against them - often women that hadn't even mentioned Bernie Sanders. Again, Black Twitter dubbed these guys "Bernie Stans" back in june 2015 - long before Hillary brought it up.

And as we all know, Twitterers, and especially members of racially-based Twitter subcultures, are are reasonable and levelheaded bunch of people.

Also, I can't help but notice that you lopped off both that and my example of what happened to TNC when he questioned Sanders' platform.

Would that be when TNC was upset that Sanders was against giving TNC free money just because TNC is black?

Bernie's problem is that he has blind spots when it comes to these issues - though he's nowhere near as bad as Trump is.

You call it "blind spots", I call it not falling for the "identity politics" nonsense that has infected the Democratic Party from the Far Left.
This only applies to Bernie16 (aka Bernie Classic), not to Bernie20 (aka New Bernie). New Bernie is sadly not immune. Probably because he is older now and relies more on surrogates and staffers. And he has some very toxic surrogates like Linda "the Cockroach" Sarsour and "squad" members such as AOC.
For example, now Bernie wants to use federal moneys to make private black colleges like Morehouse and Howard tuition free. That's some racist nonsense!
I much preferred Bernie Classic!

This is sometimes (unfairly, in my opinion) accused of actively recruiting incels, "bros", and other aggressively bigoted white guys. This usually comes down to "Remember when he said X" (today's issue is touting Joe Rogan)

Incel is yet another one of those weird insults lobbed at men (and only men) who don't toe the party line.
And what's wrong with  Joe Rogan anyway? He is a comedian, so I don't think he is politically correct, but that's part of the job.

than a serious analysis of his platform, which I think is 8/10 on race/gender issues, where I'm setting Hillary 2016 or Kamalah Harris to 10/10s, and John McCain 2008 to a 1, just to tell you the range I'm thinking of.

Why is McCain 1? And why are Hillary and Kamalah[sic] 10? Hillary was horrible on gender issues - she thinks women should be given lesser criminal penalties than men for same crimes and thinks that women are the primary victims of war because their male family members might be killed in wars. The men who actually get killed in combat don't matter to Hillary!
Kamalah[sic] is not as horrible as Hillary, but her support for disastrous FOSTA/SESTA legislation is pretty bad. So giving them 10/10 just because they are mainstream Democrats is just lazy.

Derec, I think you made an error in the quoting of the above. I didn't say that. Somebody else did.

 

[Mumbles]

I think a big part of it is that only men get labeled with such negative modifiers. There are overzealous female followers of female candidates but they not given negative epithets by the media.
And there is certainly "toxic femininity" just like there is "toxic masculinity". But by only talking about the latter (and overly broadly, even when it doesn't really apply) and never about the former, it is not unreasonable to think that those who use those labels have a negative view of men in

This isn't the thread for this discussion.

Who does that?

A subset of Bernie Sanders' supporters do it.

And as we all know, Twitterers, and especially members of racially-based Twitter subcultures, are are reasonable and levelheaded bunch of people.

In this case, they were quick to note a group that white women, and some of Sanders' less fervent supporters, would run into. ZIOW, nobody's interested in whether or not you personally approve of the group.

Also, I can't help but notice that you lopped off both that and my example of what happened to TNC when he questioned Sanders' platform.

Would that be when TNC was upset that Sanders was against giving TNC free money just because TNC is black?

Watch:



I see no issue whatsoever with reparations - which is not the same as "free money". It's very much owed. And of course, none of this is on topic, so it's my final word for this thread.

Bernie's problem is that he has blind spots when it comes to these issues - though he's nowhere near as bad as Trump is.

You call it "blind spots", I call it not falling for the "identity politics" nonsense that has infected the Democratic Party from the Far Left.
This only applies to Bernie16 (aka Bernie Classic), not to Bernie20 (aka New Bernie). New Bernie is sadly not immune. Probably because he is older now and relies more on surrogates and staffers. And he has some very toxic surrogates like Linda "the Cockroach" Sarsour and "squad" members such as AOC.
For example, now Bernie wants to use federal moneys to make private black colleges like Morehouse and Howard tuition free. That's some racist nonsense!
I much preferred Bernie Classic!

Sanders' actual problem is described as "class reductionism": the (false) view that bigotry is caused by economic anxiety. In reality, white supremacism (the US' first form of Identity Politics) was reinforced by the wealthiest people around.

The Bernie Bros, OTOH, delight in using "Identity politics" as a means of destruction - unlike the rest of the dem coalition.

This is sometimes (unfairly, in my opinion) accused of actively recruiting incels, "bros", and other aggressively bigoted white guys. This usually comes down to "Remember when he said X" (today's issue is touting Joe Rogan)

Incel is yet another one of those weird insults lobbed at men (and only men) who don't toe the party line.
And what's wrong with  Joe Rogan anyway? He is a comedian, so I don't think he is politically correct, but that's part of the job.

The problem is his audience, which, because of his habit of interviewing far-right figures, white nationalists, and the like, has more than it's fair share of trolls and white supremacists and nationalists. And naturally, the Bernie Bros that were calling women "cunt" for not agreeing with Sanders on every issue, are suddenly insisting that these bigots should be accepted as is, because "we need all the help we can get".

than a serious analysis of his platform, which I think is 8/10 on race/gender issues, where I'm setting Hillary 2016 or Kamalah Harris to 10/10s, and John McCain 2008 to a 1, just to tell you the range I'm thinking of.

Why is McCain 1? And why are Hillary and Kamalah[sic] 10? Hillary was horrible on gender issues - she thinks women should be given lesser criminal penalties than men for same crimes and thinks that women are the primary victims of war because their male family members might be killed in wars. The men who actually get killed in combat don't matter to Hillary!
Kamalah[sic] is not as horrible as Hillary, but her support for disastrous FOSTA/SESTA legislation is pretty bad. So giving them 10/10 just because they are mainstream Democrats is just lazy.

McCain gets a 1, and Clinton/Harris a 10, because it's a useful scale for what I'm doing. If I put the likes of Trump, Roy Moore, or R. Kelly at a 1, then McCain, Sanders, Harris, and Clinton all get 10/10 - and I have no useful distinction.

 

[Toni]

I think a big part of it is that only men get labeled with such negative modifiers. There are overzealous female followers of female candidates but they not given negative epithets by the media.
And there is certainly "toxic femininity" just like there is "toxic masculinity". But by only talking about the latter (and overly broadly, even when it doesn't really apply) and never about the former, it is not unreasonable to think that those who use those labels have a negative view of men in


Who does that?

Quite a few women who have been hounded by Bernie Bros had the words used against them - often women that hadn't even mentioned Bernie Sanders. Again, Black Twitter dubbed these guys "Bernie Stans" back in june 2015 - long before Hillary brought it up.

And as we all know, Twitterers, and especially members of racially-based Twitter subcultures, are are reasonable and levelheaded bunch of people.

Also, I can't help but notice that you lopped off both that and my example of what happened to TNC when he questioned Sanders' platform.

Would that be when TNC was upset that Sanders was against giving TNC free money just because TNC is black?

Bernie's problem is that he has blind spots when it comes to these issues - though he's nowhere near as bad as Trump is.

You call it "blind spots", I call it not falling for the "identity politics" nonsense that has infected the Democratic Party from the Far Left.
This only applies to Bernie16 (aka Bernie Classic), not to Bernie20 (aka New Bernie). New Bernie is sadly not immune. Probably because he is older now and relies more on surrogates and staffers. And he has some very toxic surrogates like Linda "the Cockroach" Sarsour and "squad" members such as AOC.
For example, now Bernie wants to use federal moneys to make private black colleges like Morehouse and Howard tuition free. That's some racist nonsense!
I much preferred Bernie Classic!

This is sometimes (unfairly, in my opinion) accused of actively recruiting incels, "bros", and other aggressively bigoted white guys. This usually comes down to "Remember when he said X" (today's issue is touting Joe Rogan)

Incel is yet another one of those weird insults lobbed at men (and only men) who don't toe the party line.
And what's wrong with  Joe Rogan anyway? He is a comedian, so I don't think he is politically correct, but that's part of the job.

than a serious analysis of his platform, which I think is 8/10 on race/gender issues, where I'm setting Hillary 2016 or Kamalah Harris to 10/10s, and John McCain 2008 to a 1, just to tell you the range I'm thinking of.

Why is McCain 1? And why are Hillary and Kamalah[sic] 10? Hillary was horrible on gender issues - she thinks women should be given lesser criminal penalties than men for same crimes and thinks that women are the primary victims of war because their male family members might be killed in wars. The men who actually get killed in combat don't matter to Hillary!
Kamalah[sic] is not as horrible as Hillary, but her support for disastrous FOSTA/SESTA legislation is pretty bad. So giving them 10/10 just because they are mainstream Democrats is just lazy.

Uh, I’ve been attacked by bros on twitter for questioning Saint Bernie’s stance in very minor ways.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Uh, I’ve been attacked by bros on twitter for questioning Saint Bernie’s stance in very minor ways.

Given the way you've made your attacks on Bernie on here, I think we should give these "bros" you speak of the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Toni]

Uh, I’ve been attacked by bros on twitter for questioning Saint Bernie’s stance in very minor ways.

Given the way you've made your attacks on Bernie on here, I think we should give these "bros" you speak of the benefit of the doubt.

Really? I've attacked Bernie? Where?

I've said why I don't think he'd be a good POTUS. I haven't used disrespectful or insulting language. I haven't said anything that is even very controversial, except that I don't think he'd make a good POTUS and that's only controversial if you DO think he'd make a good POTUS.

 

[PyramidHead]

ONLY 53% OF BERNIE SANDERS VOTERS WILL DEFINITELY SUPPORT 2020 DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE IF HE DOESN'T WIN: POLL

Self Important morons.

It's such a shame, but if you really care about beating Trump, then the only possible reaction to this information is to rally behind Bernie. I don't like him either; his pie-in-the-sky ideas will never pass Congress, and he shouts too much. Why can't he stop shouting! But I care about beating Drumpf, and am willing to put aside my dislike for his brand of populism for the good of the country. So, reluctantly, I will hold my nose and support Bernie, since his petulant bros won't back anyone else who is the nominee, and we need those votes to beat Trump. Don't you care about beating Trump too?

 

[laughing dog]

Uh, I’ve been attacked by bros on twitter for questioning Saint Bernie’s stance in very minor ways.

Given the way you've made your attacks on Bernie on here, I think we should give these "bros" you speak of the benefit of the doubt.

Really? I've attacked Bernie? Where?

I've said why I don't think he'd be a good POTUS. I haven't used disrespectful or insulting language. I haven't said anything that is even very controversial, except that I don't think he'd make a good POTUS and that's only controversial if you DO think he'd make a good POTUS.

Welcome to Bernie Bro logic.

 

[Toni]

ONLY 53% OF BERNIE SANDERS VOTERS WILL DEFINITELY SUPPORT 2020 DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE IF HE DOESN'T WIN: POLL

Self Important morons.

It's such a shame, but if you really care about beating Trump, then the only possible reaction to this information is to rally behind Bernie. I don't like him either; his pie-in-the-sky ideas will never pass Congress, and he shouts too much. Why can't he stop shouting! But I care about beating Drumpf, and am willing to put aside my dislike for his brand of populism for the good of the country. So, reluctantly, I will hold my nose and support Bernie, since his petulant bros won't back anyone else who is the nominee, and we need those votes to beat Trump. Don't you care about beating Trump too?

I figure in 4 more years both Trump and Bernie will be dead. Wonder if I can wait them out....

 

[PyramidHead]

ONLY 53% OF BERNIE SANDERS VOTERS WILL DEFINITELY SUPPORT 2020 DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE IF HE DOESN'T WIN: POLL

Self Important morons.

It's such a shame, but if you really care about beating Trump, then the only possible reaction to this information is to rally behind Bernie. I don't like him either; his pie-in-the-sky ideas will never pass Congress, and he shouts too much. Why can't he stop shouting! But I care about beating Drumpf, and am willing to put aside my dislike for his brand of populism for the good of the country. So, reluctantly, I will hold my nose and support Bernie, since his petulant bros won't back anyone else who is the nominee, and we need those votes to beat Trump. Don't you care about beating Trump too?

I figure in 4 more years both Trump and Bernie will be dead. Wonder if I can wait them out....

That doesn't answer my question... if you need Bernie's supporters to beat Trump, and the only way you get those supporters is by nominating Bernie, then how is there any other rational strategy for a vote-blue-no-matter-who Dem than nominating this man?

 

[laughing dog]

I figure in 4 more years both Trump and Bernie will be dead. Wonder if I can wait them out....

That doesn't answer my question... if you need Bernie's supporters to beat Trump, and the only way you get those supporters is by nominating Bernie, then how is there any other rational strategy for a vote-blue-no-matter-who Dem than nominating this man?

The same probably holds true for Bernie - he will need Biden or Warren supporters to beat Trump. How is there any rational strategy for a vote-blue-no-matter-who Dem than nominating Biden or Warren?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

ONLY 53% OF BERNIE SANDERS VOTERS WILL DEFINITELY SUPPORT 2020 DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE IF HE DOESN'T WIN: POLL

Self Important morons.

And cross party appeal.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I figure in 4 more years both Trump and Bernie will be dead. Wonder if I can wait them out....

That doesn't answer my question... if you need Bernie's supporters to beat Trump, and the only way you get those supporters is by nominating Bernie, then how is there any other rational strategy for a vote-blue-no-matter-who Dem than nominating this man?

The same probably holds true for Bernie - he will need Biden or Warren supporters to beat Trump. How is there any rational strategy for a vote-blue-no-matter-who Dem than nominating Biden or Warren?

This is an agreement to the double standard I pointed out above, and that the supporters of the Dem establishment candidates are just as likely to not vote blue no matter who. It's rare that you voice your agreement with me. Nice to see it for once.

 

[Toni]

I figure in 4 more years both Trump and Bernie will be dead. Wonder if I can wait them out....

That doesn't answer my question... if you need Bernie's supporters to beat Trump, and the only way you get those supporters is by nominating Bernie, then how is there any other rational strategy for a vote-blue-no-matter-who Dem than nominating this man?

Beating Trump is a necessary but insufficient requirement. We need to replace Trump with someone who will be more effective and who will help move the country back to a decently sustainable, more moral path.

My problems with Bernie are:

1. He's just plain too fucking old. He just is. 10 years ago, he would have been too old, I think. I write this as someone who is no spring chicken myself.

2. Because he doesn't work well with others--by his own admission--he is unlikely to accomplish anything aside from setting up the Republicans for a win in 2024.


That's aside from my visceral opposition to people attempting to blackmail me. If your candidate--and let's be clear: he's YOUR candidate and that's why you support him: because he's YOUR candidate--is really the best person to be POTUS, please convince me. Attempting to blackmail me by threatening to sabotage any other candidate makes you, imo, lower than a Trump supporter basically because I don't think you are stupid or poorly educated or ignorant. You want to claim greater moral standing: then act like it. Tell me HOW Saint Bernie will accomplish anything at all because I don't think he can.

From where I'm sitting, Bernie needs more than just his bros to gain the nomination. So convince me. Without the attempted blackmail.

 

[PyramidHead]

I figure in 4 more years both Trump and Bernie will be dead. Wonder if I can wait them out....

That doesn't answer my question... if you need Bernie's supporters to beat Trump, and the only way you get those supporters is by nominating Bernie, then how is there any other rational strategy for a vote-blue-no-matter-who Dem than nominating this man?

The same probably holds true for Bernie - he will need Biden or Warren supporters to beat Trump. How is there any rational strategy for a vote-blue-no-matter-who Dem than nominating Biden or Warren?

Bernie is the second choice of both Biden and Warren supporters by a safe margin, and are likely to vote Democrat no matter who they nominate anyway.

 

[ZiprHead]

The same probably holds true for Bernie - he will need Biden or Warren supporters to beat Trump. How is there any rational strategy for a vote-blue-no-matter-who Dem than nominating Biden or Warren?

This is an agreement to the double standard I pointed out above, and that the supporters of the Dem establishment candidates are just as likely to not vote blue no matter who. It's rare that you voice your agreement with me. Nice to see it for once.

Where did you point out that they were "just as likely"?

 

[PyramidHead]

I figure in 4 more years both Trump and Bernie will be dead. Wonder if I can wait them out....

That doesn't answer my question... if you need Bernie's supporters to beat Trump, and the only way you get those supporters is by nominating Bernie, then how is there any other rational strategy for a vote-blue-no-matter-who Dem than nominating this man?

Beating Trump is a necessary but insufficient requirement. We need to replace Trump with someone who will be more effective and who will help move the country back to a decently sustainable, more moral path.

My problems with Bernie are:

1. He's just plain too fucking old. He just is. 10 years ago, he would have been too old, I think. I write this as someone who is no spring chicken myself.

2. Because he doesn't work well with others--by his own admission--he is unlikely to accomplish anything aside from setting up the Republicans for a win in 2024.


That's aside from my visceral opposition to people attempting to blackmail me. If your candidate--and let's be clear: he's YOUR candidate and that's why you support him: because he's YOUR candidate--is really the best person to be POTUS, please convince me. Attempting to blackmail me by threatening to sabotage any other candidate makes you, imo, lower than a Trump supporter basically because I don't think you are stupid or poorly educated or ignorant. You want to claim greater moral standing: then act like it. Tell me HOW Saint Bernie will accomplish anything at all because I don't think he can.

From where I'm sitting, Bernie needs more than just his bros to gain the nomination. So convince me. Without the attempted blackmail.

No, because I don't need to. If you will vote for Bernie provided he is the nominee, I don't need to waste my time convincing you why he's good. Are you saying you would vote for Donald Trump if Bernie were the nominee?

 

[Toni]

Beating Trump is a necessary but insufficient requirement. We need to replace Trump with someone who will be more effective and who will help move the country back to a decently sustainable, more moral path.

My problems with Bernie are:

1. He's just plain too fucking old. He just is. 10 years ago, he would have been too old, I think. I write this as someone who is no spring chicken myself.

2. Because he doesn't work well with others--by his own admission--he is unlikely to accomplish anything aside from setting up the Republicans for a win in 2024.


That's aside from my visceral opposition to people attempting to blackmail me. If your candidate--and let's be clear: he's YOUR candidate and that's why you support him: because he's YOUR candidate--is really the best person to be POTUS, please convince me. Attempting to blackmail me by threatening to sabotage any other candidate makes you, imo, lower than a Trump supporter basically because I don't think you are stupid or poorly educated or ignorant. You want to claim greater moral standing: then act like it. Tell me HOW Saint Bernie will accomplish anything at all because I don't think he can.

From where I'm sitting, Bernie needs more than just his bros to gain the nomination. So convince me. Without the attempted blackmail.

No, because I don't need to. If you will vote for Bernie provided he is the nominee, I don't need to waste my time convincing you why he's good. Are you saying you would vote for Donald Trump if Bernie were the nominee?

I’m saying that you have no good reason for anyone that vote for Bernie except that he is not Trump.

That is absolutely the most piss poor justification for a candidacy that I can imagine.

A good candidate, one whose positions and abilities were actually up to the task, would at least make some kind of case for why they are the best person for the job. You’re doing a terrible job of advocating for your candidate. Do you even have reasons you think Bernie is the best candidate?

 

[PyramidHead]

Beating Trump is a necessary but insufficient requirement. We need to replace Trump with someone who will be more effective and who will help move the country back to a decently sustainable, more moral path.

My problems with Bernie are:

1. He's just plain too fucking old. He just is. 10 years ago, he would have been too old, I think. I write this as someone who is no spring chicken myself.

2. Because he doesn't work well with others--by his own admission--he is unlikely to accomplish anything aside from setting up the Republicans for a win in 2024.


That's aside from my visceral opposition to people attempting to blackmail me. If your candidate--and let's be clear: he's YOUR candidate and that's why you support him: because he's YOUR candidate--is really the best person to be POTUS, please convince me. Attempting to blackmail me by threatening to sabotage any other candidate makes you, imo, lower than a Trump supporter basically because I don't think you are stupid or poorly educated or ignorant. You want to claim greater moral standing: then act like it. Tell me HOW Saint Bernie will accomplish anything at all because I don't think he can.

From where I'm sitting, Bernie needs more than just his bros to gain the nomination. So convince me. Without the attempted blackmail.

No, because I don't need to. If you will vote for Bernie provided he is the nominee, I don't need to waste my time convincing you why he's good. Are you saying you would vote for Donald Trump if Bernie were the nominee?

I’m saying that you have no good reason for anyone that vote for Bernie except that he is not Trump.

No; that is what the vote blue crowd is already saying, and I am simply pointing out that their logic forces them to vote strategically in the primary since they have conceded that differences among the Dem field do not matter to them. I have many reasons why Bernie is the best candidate, but if you would vote for him in the general anyway, it would be a waste of our time for me to lay them out. You seem to be hesitant about that, though. Are you considering voting for Donald Trump this year, Toni, depending on how the primary shakes out?

 

[Toni]

I’m saying that you have no good reason for anyone that vote for Bernie except that he is not Trump.

No; that is what the vote blue crowd is already saying, and I am simply pointing out that their logic forces them to vote strategically in the primary since they have conceded that differences among the Dem field do not matter to them. I have many reasons why Bernie is the best candidate, but if you would vote for him in the general anyway, it would be a waste of our time for me to lay them out. You seem to be hesitant about that, though. Are you considering voting for Donald Trump this year, Toni, depending on how the primary shakes out?

So you cannot think of even one reason for me to vote for Sanders in the primary?

That’s what I thought.

 

[PyramidHead]

I’m saying that you have no good reason for anyone that vote for Bernie except that he is not Trump.

No; that is what the vote blue crowd is already saying, and I am simply pointing out that their logic forces them to vote strategically in the primary since they have conceded that differences among the Dem field do not matter to them. I have many reasons why Bernie is the best candidate, but if you would vote for him in the general anyway, it would be a waste of our time for me to lay them out. You seem to be hesitant about that, though. Are you considering voting for Donald Trump this year, Toni, depending on how the primary shakes out?

So you cannot think of even one reason for me to vote for Sanders in the primary?

That’s what I thought.

I already gave you one: his supporters will stay home in the general if he isn't the nominee, right? Isn't that what we do, as petulant bros? Is that what you want to happen, when those votes would be the difference between Trump winning and losing?