Do minds exist?

[braces_for_impact]

I think the term "mind" in the vernacular is referring mostly to the thoughts and impressions we "hear" in our own head, the feelings we experience, combined with the very strong sense of agency that we feel as the thinker of those thoughts. It's something that accessible only to us.

ETA: I believe my mind exists. The rest of you could be zombies for all I know, appearing to also have minds when you actually don't. The real world could be made up entirely by me too, although I doubt I have the ability to self-manufacture such detail. Also, I must secretly hate myself, because if I'm creating all this, I could have at least set myself up nearer the top so I could be relaxed and have more fun.

So yeah, I have to make a couple of assumptions, and honestly that's because I can't fathom the alternative. How would one function? So I make a couple assumptions about reality, realize this may be a riddle that is NEVER solved, and then go about trying to use logic and reason in this reality I appear to inhabit. The alternative is what? Presupposition apologetics? That's just stupid.

 

[fromderinside]

Ok.. Well let's start from the basics. The mental content that people you claim people don't have are reported with amazing consistency across the globe. By asking people to think or not think about certain things, you can manipulate the activation patterns in their brain, and their performance on certain tasks. How are these physical differences arising if there is no mental content?

If you go all objective I'm not sure how you could prove anything at all. All you actually know is precisely that which you probably call your mind. The rest is inference to the best explanation, i.e. beliefs, and people can always argue that brain processes are all that's required to explain the facts. I would even agree with them if I could get my mind to know that there is such a thing as a brain, let alone brain processes.
EB

Inferences are motivators for experiments as well as arguments. I don't think the goal is agreement. I'm actually interested in getting something new out of what is speculated.

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Mind is a folk psychology term attempting to explain organized awareness over some interval of time.

Are you at all organisedly aware?

Eyup. Even got a name for the condition. I call it mind.

 

[untermensche]

With what can a person conclude there is no mind?

 

[Speakpigeon]

With what can a person conclude there is no mind?

You could try to use your brain.

If you're sure you have one and if you actually know how to use it maybe it's one way to do it. Me I actually don't know I have a brain but apparently I don't need to. All I need is know my own mind. And I just happen to do. Something like Descartes I guess. I'm also sceptical about brains proving minds, even collectively organised brains, like, say, CERN or whatever. There seems to be some sort of catch. Fascinating.
EB

 

[Tristan Scott]

With what can a person conclude there is no mind?

It's kind of like what can a computer do without a program.

 

[untermensche]

With what can a person conclude there is no mind?

You could try to use your brain.

If you're sure you have one and if you actually know how to use it maybe it's one way to do it. Me I actually don't know I have a brain but apparently I don't need to. All I need is know my own mind. And I just happen to do. Something like Descartes I guess. I'm also sceptical about brains proving minds, even collectively organised brains, like, say, CERN or whatever. There seems to be some sort of catch. Fascinating.
EB

To "use" a brain requires something that does the using.

 

[none]

To "use" a brain requires something that does the using.

like an organism, like an organism using it's brain?

 

[untermensche]

With what can a person conclude there is no mind?

It's kind of like what can a computer do without a program.

That's probably the best analogy possible.

But even that fails to elucidate what is necessary for a person to make a conclusion.

There are no real world analogies to the mind. There are minds and there is everything else. That is what a mind does. Create a separation from it and all else.

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To "use" a brain requires something that does the using.

like an organism, like an organism using it's brain?

What part of the organism uses the brain to make conclusions?

 

[none]

What part of the organism uses the brain to make conclusions?

the brain does it, the brain sometimes makes good choices for the health of the brain.

 

[untermensche]

What part of the organism uses the brain to make conclusions?

the brain does it, the brain sometimes makes good choices for the health of the brain.

Saying the brain uses the brain to make conclusions is like saying the arm uses the arm to make movements.

A product of the brain is making conclusions. A mind.

 

[none]

the brain does it, the brain sometimes makes good choices for the health of the brain.

Saying the brain uses the brain to make conclusions is like saying the arm uses the arm to make movements.

A product of the brain is making conclusions. A mind.

I doubt it buddy, you aren't making any sense.. try not to use analogies and you might have a chance at a winning argument.
the brain makes decisions concerning itself, that much is evident.
probing the brain with electrodes produces results,

 

[untermensche]

Saying the brain uses the brain to make conclusions is like saying the arm uses the arm to make movements.

A product of the brain is making conclusions. A mind.

I doubt it buddy, you aren't making any sense.. try not to use analogies and you might have a chance at a winning argument.
the brain makes decisions concerning itself, that much is evident.
probing the brain with electrodes produces results,

What doubts it?

Your brain or you?

 

[none]

I doubt it buddy, you aren't making any sense.. try not to use analogies and you might have a chance at a winning argument.
the brain makes decisions concerning itself, that much is evident.
probing the brain with electrodes produces results,

What doubts it?

Your brain or you?

Some part of my brain must, either way it is a "mind of the gaps" you are looking for.
If I cut your arm off and it twitches we conclude the arm twitches not that it has a mind of it's own.
You might think differently, but I don't care.... <-- re-edit...

 

[Kharakov]

I liked it better when it said "but I don't care".

 

[untermensche]

What doubts it?

Your brain or you?

Some part of my brain must, either way it is a "mind of the gaps" you are looking for.
If I cut your arm off and it twitches we conclude the arm twitches not that it has a mind of it's own.
You might think differently

This is a dodge.

What doubts, you or your brain?

 

[none]

Some part of my brain must, either way it is a "mind of the gaps" you are looking for.
If I cut your arm off and it twitches we conclude the arm twitches not that it has a mind of it's own.
You might think differently

This is a dodge.

What doubts, you or your brain?

I am not going to give you an answer, what you are looking for is "mind of the gaps".
This interrogation of yours could go on indefinitely, turn to semantics and philosophy all so you can not provide anything empirical about the mind but deny the one thing that is empirical... the brain.

 

[untermensche]

This is a dodge.

What doubts, you or your brain?

I am not going to give you an answer, what you are looking for is "mind of the gaps".
This interrogation of yours could go on indefinitely, turn to semantics and philosophy all so you can not provide anything empirical about the mind but deny the one thing that is empirical... the brain.

This is absurd.

The thing known most is the mind. To call it a gap is to turn reality on it's head.

But I'll make it easier for you.

When you see a chair are you seeing something the brain created or are you seeing the brain?

 

[none]

I am not going to give you an answer, what you are looking for is "mind of the gaps".
This interrogation of yours could go on indefinitely, turn to semantics and philosophy all so you can not provide anything empirical about the mind but deny the one thing that is empirical... the brain.

This is absurd.

The thing known most is the mind. To call it a gap is to turn reality on it's head.

But I'll make it easier for you.

When you see a chair are you seeing something the brain created or are you seeing the brain?

yep, you have presented the absurd
is a man and machine one if they are acting in unison?
are you you? what is you? who is who? what's on second?

 

[none]

it might be easier to prove there is a mind, why don't you try that..?

 

[untermensche]

This is absurd.

The thing known most is the mind. To call it a gap is to turn reality on it's head.

But I'll make it easier for you.

When you see a chair are you seeing something the brain created or are you seeing the brain?

yep, you have presented the absurd
is a man and machine one if they are acting in unison?
are you you? what is you? who is who? what's on second?

Once again, when you see a chair are you seeing something the brain created or are you seeing the brain?

You don't have to leave negative reputation because you don't like to answer simple questions.

You have a mind. Use it.