Do schools kill creativity?

[AthenaAwakened]

Sir Ken Robinson makes an entertaining and profoundly moving case for creating an education system that nurtures (rather than undermines) creativity.

 

[Axulus]

Sir Ken Robinson makes an entertaining and profoundly moving case for creating an education system that nurtures (rather than undermines) creativity.

The Montessori approach doesn't seem to be subject to the main criticisms he puts forth. How would we test whether kids who participated in a Montessori school have enhanced creativity later in life vs having attended a traditional school?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

 

[dismal]

Meh, creativity is overrated.

Surprisingly few practical applications.

 

[Bronzeage]

Meh, creativity is overrated.

Surprisingly few practical applications.

Creativity can never be overrated, but it is of little use without self discipline and knowledge. The world's greatest novelist will never pen a word, if they don't learn to write at an early age.

For myself, I find practical uses for creativity everyday. In my world, few of the things I really need can be bought. If they can be bought, some assembly is required and since few things come with all the parts, a creative solution is needed.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

This sort of approach works very well with some students and completely fails with others. There is a medical school in Ontario, McMaster University's, that takes a "self learning, creativity" approach. It has no tests, no curriculum, etc, until the final exams at the end of years of attendance. The result is some truly excellent doctors produced from McMaster, and some absolutely horrible ones. The result of that is that whenever other doctors hear somebody graduated from McMaster, people are weary until they prove themselves, whereas at other schools, they are assumed to be competent.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Meh, creativity is overrated.

Surprisingly few practical applications.

The marvels of modern technonlogy that we use everyday, would you say they were invented, crafted and improved by some pretty creative people? And that the creativity has generated profits and dividends of all sorts for the world's population?

 

[dismal]

Meh, creativity is overrated.

Surprisingly few practical applications.

Creativity can never be overrated

You should try driving on the highway I drive to work. Less creativity, more rule following please.

- - - Updated - - -

Meh, creativity is overrated.

Surprisingly few practical applications.

The marvels of modern technonlogy that we use everyday, would you say they were invented, crafted and improved by some pretty creative people? And that the creativity has generated profits and dividends of all sorts for the world's population?

It's good for some people to be creative. Specifically, people who have *useful* ideas.

 

[ksen]

I get dismal's point. I mean those creative types just want to steal dismal's money and redistribute it so they can stay at home being all "creative" instead of going out and getting a real job.

 

[Bronzeage]

Creativity can never be overrated

You should try driving on the highway I drive to work. Less creativity, more rule following please.

- - - Updated - - -

Meh, creativity is overrated.

Surprisingly few practical applications.

The marvels of modern technonlogy that we use everyday, would you say they were invented, crafted and improved by some pretty creative people? And that the creativity has generated profits and dividends of all sorts for the world's population?

It's good for some people to be creative. Specifically, people who have *useful* ideas.

If there is an antidote to excess creativity, cynicism would be it, but cynicism is hardly a new idea.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Creativity can never be overrated

You should try driving on the highway I drive to work. Less creativity, more rule following please.

- - - Updated - - -

Meh, creativity is overrated.

Surprisingly few practical applications.

The marvels of modern technonlogy that we use everyday, would you say they were invented, crafted and improved by some pretty creative people? And that the creativity has generated profits and dividends of all sorts for the world's population?

It's good for some people to be creative. Specifically, people who have *useful* ideas.

So only a chosen group should be creative? everybody else should not?

"Useful ideas." Hmmmm

My Pet Rock sold for $3.95, and creator Gary Dahl unloaded more than five million of the igneous invertebrates in six months. He walked away with a cool $15 million

http://www.bcbusiness.ca/retail/9-dumbest-fads-ever-to-make-money

So Gary Dahl should not have sold Pet Rocks? Or were they really useful?

 

[dismal]

So only a chosen group should be creative? everybody else should not?

"Useful ideas." Hmmmm

No, everyone has a right to be as creative as they like (subject to things like traffic laws, etc.) But we needn't delude ourselves that creativity necessarily results in useful things.

 

[Bronzeage]

You should try driving on the highway I drive to work. Less creativity, more rule following please.

- - - Updated - - -

Meh, creativity is overrated.

Surprisingly few practical applications.

The marvels of modern technonlogy that we use everyday, would you say they were invented, crafted and improved by some pretty creative people? And that the creativity has generated profits and dividends of all sorts for the world's population?

It's good for some people to be creative. Specifically, people who have *useful* ideas.

So only a chosen group should be creative? everybody else should not?

"Useful ideas." Hmmmm

My Pet Rock sold for $3.95, and creator Gary Dahl unloaded more than five million of the igneous invertebrates in six months. He walked away with a cool $15 million

http://www.bcbusiness.ca/retail/9-dumbest-fads-ever-to-make-money

So Gary Dahl should not have sold Pet Rocks? Or were they really useful?

They have about equal utility to a refrigerator magnet which reads "My Cat Loves Me," which is no small amount.

 

[laughing dog]

I don't think there is anything inherent in the notion of a school that stifles creativity. A school can encourage or stifle creativity. Teachers can encourage or stifle creativity. Parents can encourage or stifle creativity.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

So only a chosen group should be creative? everybody else should not?

"Useful ideas." Hmmmm

No, everyone has a right to be as creative as they like (subject to things like traffic laws, etc.)

It's good for some people to be creative. Specifically, people who have *useful* ideas.
That is the original quote.
Now we have moved the goal posts from what should be to what people have a right to be.

But we needn't delude ourselves that creativity necessarily results in useful things.

Useful to whom?

 

[doubtingt]

The discussion is pretty pointless without a definition of creativity, and those trying to formal research on creativity (rather than just "creatively" invent answers to otherwise scientific questions) have had a tough time pinning the concept down.

Their are related notions of "originality" but anyone could string together letters in a random fashion that would be completely "original", yet is it really creative?

Most research has come to agree at a vague level that creativity is some combination of thinking of something that is non-obvious within the constraint that it also be functional or serve some purpose. This is broad enough to encompass works of great art and of great science. Both entail some novelty, and with art the purpose is the conveyance of some conceptual or emotional state, whereas in science the purpose is conveying a systematic description or explanation of some phenomenon. It also applies to "practical" creativity in everyday life where some specific problem or obstacle is faced in the creative solution is not just non-obvious but it demonstrably solves to problem at hand.

In this light, it is likely that formal education has good and bad attributes related to creativity. On the one hand it presents people with the same set of dominant ideas that could impair the likelihood that any students think of something that would be non-obvious to others. OTOH, education imparts both knowledge and develops reasoning skills that are important for identifying problems and evaluating whether proposed answers (novel or not) actually serve the purpose intended.

 

[dismal]

No, everyone has a right to be as creative as they like (subject to things like traffic laws, etc.)

It's good for some people to be creative. Specifically, people who have *useful* ideas.
That is the original quote.
Now we have moved the goal posts from what should be to what people have a right to be.

But we needn't delude ourselves that creativity necessarily results in useful things.

Useful to whom?

Different things are useful to different people. At different times.

Different people have the capability to be creative in useful ways. Sometimes but not others.

 

[Bronzeage]

Sometimes what passes for creativity is actually chaos. One of the reasons we educate young children is to channel chaos and impose order. There's really no other way to do it, and it must start at a young age.

Creativity is the act of channeling one's own chaos into order. It's the difference between coloring inside the lines and scribbles.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Meh, creativity is overrated.

Surprisingly few practical applications.

I think this is a neat idea.

I don't think there is anything inherent in the notion of a school that stifles creativity. A school can encourage or stifle creativity. Teachers can encourage or stifle creativity. Parents can encourage or stifle creativity.

I recall reading in the paper at a very young age about what I think at the time was called The Future Society (I may be misremembering it) and my mother dismissing it as silliness. Man, I was so hurt by that comment.

********

I mentioned in another thread some time ago: Consider how a child might solve a math problem. Now consider how the child might solve the problem of drawing a bowl of fruit. I think art, including dance and music all train children to use different pathways of their brain and this in turn enables them as adults to look at a problem from different angles. Isn't this the foundation of creativity?

 

[Nexus]

Creativity allowed humans to rub sticks together and make fire. Along with opposable thumbs and language its a core trait that separates humans from other animals.