repoman
Contributor
When they say "God is real to me" isn't that what that means?
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Do theists sort of think that belieiving in god makes god real?
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James Brown
Suspended by Member Request
I've heard that a lot. "I can't explain it, but I still believe in God." To me, it's a tacit admission that their belief is based on emotional feeling.
Daniel Dennet calls it "Belief in belief." A person has no rational basis for a belief, but thinks that giving up that belief will cause discomfort.
Daniel Dennet calls it "Belief in belief." A person has no rational basis for a belief, but thinks that giving up that belief will cause discomfort.
braces_for_impact
Veteran Member
Yeah, some definitely do. I often hear that they wouldn't want to live in a world where (insert godless unholy consequences here). As if reality is determined by one's personal desires.
J842P
Veteran Member
I think essentially you are seeing what indoctrination looks like. People are told there is a God, that God is good (goodness *itself*), that the Bible is true etc etc by their parents. It is hard to shake these sorts of things once you accept them at a young age. There are a lot of people who place a lot of value on what "elders and betters" told them when they were younger.
My own father has an advanced degree in a technical field, and yet, he still believes all sorts of nonsense that was passed down as "common sense" from people in his mother's time. He will always try very hard to justify these beliefs using appeals to some plausible mechanism he will rationalize on the spot about how some old-wive's tale is probably true, but the reality is, he believes them because he was told so, and it is hard for him to shake this reverence he has for a perceived wisdom of the older people who raised him.
Indeed, it's the same way with religion. He isn't particularly religious in his actions or politics or even in his specific beliefs, he just sort of holds religion on a pedestal, because when he grew up, The Church was Good.
sharon45
Veteran Member
It's just vacuous faith, since their god already isn't real.
Underseer
Contributor
Yes. They often speak of "believing hard enough" as if the fervency of your conviction can make a truth claim true.
Ramaraksha
Senior Member
I doubt that most of them care for God - they see God as their ticket to the easy good life in heaven. Religions born when Kings ruled - the King demanded absolute loyalty in return for his protection & care - that was the template of God - a King-like God ruling the heavens, rewarding his believers(Heaven) & punishing the rest(Hell). Made a lot of sense to the ancients because that is the life they had
That is the goal - Heaven, and God is guy who will make it happen
That is the goal - Heaven, and God is guy who will make it happen
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
A god is a person's idealized self, that person's ultimate identity. When a person says they believe in a god they're really saying that they are a god. It's a kind of comforting self-worship.
That makes a god very real to them. Jesus, the gospel protagonist, is a good example of this. He even says that people are gods.
That makes a god very real to them. Jesus, the gospel protagonist, is a good example of this. He even says that people are gods.
braces_for_impact
Veteran Member
I think there's some truth to this, it explains why God always agrees wit them on everything.
Tigers!
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Really? Where did he say that?
sharon45
Veteran Member
John 10:34.
I'm not much of a Bible scholar, but it would seem to me that a statement of that sort would have to be taken out of context in order to have it be saying that Jesus literally meant that everyone there was a god.
Unless, of course, John 10 is the bit about that one time Jesus was invited up to Mount Olympus for dinner.
sharon45
Veteran Member
To me, Jesus is once again trying to make fun of the OT and its followers, but actually making a fool of himself.
You may have (perhaps) thrown this out as a jokey comment, but I hope you realize it's massively bigoted on any serious level.
I have never noticed any theist thinking along those lines. So probably not.
I'm sure the average atheist isn't going to be thinking, "God isn't real because of my lack of belief" either.
But that's hardly the same thing as thinking that belief makes things true.
And actually, I think you can take account of such things, where the evidence is more or less balanced on both sides and the truth of the matter is uncertain. Not every kind of "reasonable belief" is based on a strict probability calculation of how likely something is to be true. So if theism is a preferable worldview, that doesn't boost its chances of being true, but it may boost it being a reasonable thing to commit to. Religious commitment doesn't require you believing things with 100% certainty.
For example, I don't think Pascal's Wager works because of standard objections. But it could work in theory if you could narrow down the options, specify that the religious option is not too unlikely, and you understand that religious belief / commitment isn't the same thing as believing 100% in things you don't have that kind of support for.
ideologyhunter
Contributor
Thom Hartman -- liberal radio personality, whom I listened to back when I could get him on my radio -- was usually good at constructing arguments, but he blew off atheism by saying something close to, 'If there is no god then there is no ultimate justice and life just ends, and I can't accept that.' My mind reeled when I heard him express that 'thought' -- because it's nothing more than a fancy. Of course, I think it's weirder yet when friends or relatives accept an elaborate theology -- it always seems to me that they've constructed a wondrous theater in their heads, peopled with superbly endowed, invisible characters whom they believe are real. I don't have a season pass to that theater, so it is entirely meaningless to discuss religion with them.
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
Maybe it's a question of intellect, not emotion. Hartman makes an emotional argument, and let's face it, emotion is the numero uno human currency. Anyone who thinks humans aren't primarily emotional creatures is seriously deluded.
Gods fill emotional needs.