Do you think any aliens exist in the universe?

[pood]

fire works better on land than underwater.

Which always amazes me. With all that sodium in the water, it should burst right into flames.
Thank god for chlorine?

Does life exist in some form elsewhere in theuniverse? Pro0baly.

I'd say it is almost certain that life exists on bodies within the solar system other than Earth.
If there's one thing I'd hope for from science, it would be to confirm that 100% before I die.
I don't know why that would give me such satisfaction.

All sorts of tiny critters who might like to have us for lunch.

Remember the movie Andromeda Strain?

Unlikely that extraterrestrial critters could eat us or we them, or would even be interested in trying.

 

[bilby]

fire works better on land than underwater.

Which always amazes me. With all that sodium in the water, it should burst right into flames.
Thank god for chlorine?

Does life exist in some form elsewhere in theuniverse? Pro0baly.

I'd say it is almost certain that life exists on bodies within the solar system other than Earth.
If there's one thing I'd hope for from science, it would be to confirm that 100% before I die.
I don't know why that would give me such satisfaction.

All sorts of tiny critters who might like to have us for lunch.

Remember the movie Andromeda Strain?

Unlikely that extraterrestrial critters could eat us or we them, or would even be interested in trying.

Bacteria will learn to eat almost anything.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nylon-eating_bacteria

I am interested to see how long it takes for a bacterium to learn to eat polyvinylchloride; Most modern underground sewer, water, and gas pipes are made of the stuff, because it's tough and doesn't decay.

Yet.

My guess is that it might take a long time, as digesting PVC needs a lot of independent processes to come together simultaneously. But evolution is patient, and bacteria are fecund. And "never" is a very long time...

 

[aupmanyav]

Good thing you’re an atheist, then eh?

Yeah, a STRONG atheist. Member of IIDB since 2012, though not posting much here currently.

 

[aupmanyav]

How can you be an atheist and think god is going to kill you??

I enjoy funny fables.

 

[aupmanyav]

By assuming that you are immortal, obviously...

Yeah, what constitutes me is most probably immortal - star-dust kind of thing, here, since 13.78 billion years..

 

[bilby]

By assuming that you are immortal, obviously...

Yeah, what constitutes me is most probably immortal - star-dust kind of thing, here, since 13.78 billion years..

The first law of thermodynamics says that mass-energy is "immortal". But a person isn't matter, he is a pattern.

Matter moving just-so, in exactly this way, such that it remembers its past and strives towards a future; A pattern of forces and particles, we can call "me".

But patterns, unlike the particles from which they are formed, are ephemeral.

A lego brick outlasts the model of which it forms a part. That does nothing to make the model eternal or immortal.

We cannot be immortal, because we are not the bricks. Rather, we are the patterns those bricks form. And patterns come, and go.

 

[aupmanyav]

We cannot be immortal, because we are not the bricks. Rather, we are the patterns those bricks form. And patterns come, and go.

If we are the patterns those bricks form, then we are basically the bricks. Everything is that.
Mandukya Upanishad - 'Sarvam Khalvidam Brahma' (All this is Brahman)

The complete line: "sarvam khalvidam brahman tajjalān iti shānta upāsita."
"All this (collectively) is Brahman, indeed: what evolves from That, what dissolves in That, what breathes or functions in That, should be closely and calmly studied .."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandukya, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tajjalan, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aparoksha

 

[Elixir]

By assuming that you are immortal, obviously...

Yeah, what constitutes me is most probably immortal - star-dust kind of thing, here, since 13.78 billion years

Is dust sentient?

 

[aupmanyav]

Is dust sentient?

Like you said, dust is a pattern, just like any other thing we observe.

 

[Elixir]

Is dust sentient?

Like you said, dust is a pattern, just like any other thing we observe.

I wasn’t the one who said that.
And dust is random by definition. It only forms patterns in low- entropy environments. And when it does, the dust isn’t the pattern.

 

[aupmanyav]

I wasn’t the one who said that.
And dust is random by definition. It only forms patterns in low- entropy environments. And when it does, the dust isn’t the pattern.

Sorry. It was bilby. If we go by bilby's theory then everything is a pattern.
I do not know about the 'pattern' theory. I am going through it with Wikipedia.
It involves a lot of mathematics. I was never good at it.

 

[pood]

Atman is a pattern in Brahman. Same thing in Kastrup’s analytic idealism.

 

[aupmanyav]

Atman is a pattern in Brahman. Same thing in Kastrup’s analytic idealism.

Atman is 'Self', a pattern of Brhman. Any self, human, animal, vegetation, non-living object, dark energy, dark matter.

Duckduckgo: "Analytic Idealism, as proposed by Bernardo Kastrup, is a philosophical theory suggesting that reality is fundamentally mental or experiential, rather than purely physical. It argues that the universe exists independently of individual minds but is still rooted in a shared field of consciousness."

I do not consider any universal consciousness to exist or be the root of existence. The root is 'physical energy', Quantum Mechanics. 'Spooky action at a distance' is its effect.

 

[pood]

Atman is a pattern in Brahman. Same thing in Kastrup’s analytic idealism.

Atman is 'Self', a pattern of Brhman. Any self, human, animal, vegetation, non-living object, dark energy, dark matter.

Duckduckgo: "Analytic Idealism, as proposed by Bernardo Kastrup, is a philosophical theory suggesting that reality is fundamentally mental or experiential, rather than purely physical. It argues that the universe exists independently of individual minds but is still rooted in a shared field of consciousness."

I do not consider any universal consciousness to exist or be the root of existence. The root is 'physical energy', Quantum Mechanics. 'Spooky action at a distance' is its effect.

We have a thread on analytic idealism. It is a coherent metaphysical concept, and there are a number of empirical reasons for thinking it might well be true. And it sure does sound like Brahman/Atman.

 

[bilby]

If we are the patterns those bricks form, then we are basically the bricks.

Not at all. You might as well describe the Mona Lisa as "basically some canvas and paint". It's an accurate description, but misses the entire point.

If you set the Mona Lisa on fire, and your defence was that every single one of the atoms that made it still exists, so you haven't destroyed it at all, the judge would quite rightly conclude that you were insane.

Patterns are independent of, and often far more important than, the materials from which they are formed.

The ship of Theseus is a pattern. Every atom of it can be replaced, without it losing its identity, because the materials are of no importance.

A person constantly sheds and replaces parts of himself. Likely there are almost no atoms left in your body that were a part of you at birth. Yet you remain the same person - and on your death, that person ceases to be, despite the persistance of the atoms from which it was made.

 

[Elixir]

Atman is a pattern in Brahman. Same thing in Kastrup’s analytic idealism.

I thought that went on burgers.

Anyhow- I had to look this up.
“A pattern in mathematics is a repeated or recurring arrangement of numbers, shapes, objects, or other mathematical entities that follow a specific rule or set of rules. The elements of a pattern are related to each other in a predictable way, and the rule defines how to progress from one element to the next…”

So we might see a face of Jesus in a piece of toast, but that’s not a pattern. It would be a pattern if there was a template for the finished toast to which any portion of the toast could be matched, and used to predict the contents of adjacent sections of toast. Observing the face of Jesus after the fact does not bespeak a pattern, mathematically, afaik.
I’m sure a lot of people here can correct me if that’s wrong.

 

[unapologetic]

Has not God created us for a special purpose .. to worship him. So, we will survive.

Well, NO. Humans created gods ... to scam other humans.

Aouth American will come closer to India.

You do know that map is of 250 million years AGO (in the past), right? Not where India will be in the future.
I'm thinking we'll be closer to the Mariana Trench in 250 million years.

Ah, you forget! God is testing us. That is why he had given us free-will.

Why would god test us? Doesn't he trust his handywork? Testing is what an imperfect mortal would do. god is too human to be a real god.

Considering how listless and deskbound he is now, how his voice goes wispy when he's too long at the mic, one can guess, and fervently hope, that at age 82, he'll be too ravaged by age to run.

I would have thought his dementia would have kept him out of office last time. But look where we are.

Trump wasn't eligible competent for the presidency the last time. Yet there he is.

Fixed it.

Seriously I don’t get why he is not impeached, convicted and carted off to a rubber room by next week.

We are living IN the rubber room.

Do they believe that the majority of the electorate wants them to have total control?

They believe they already have total control.

"For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much – the wheel, New York, wars and so on – whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man – for precisely the same reasons."
- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

If you could surf all day and not have to work so hard for food, you wouldn't bother building a civilization either.

 

[bilby]

If you could surf all day and not have to work so hard for food, you wouldn't bother building a civilization either.

Well that's as good an explanation as any for the existence of the Gold Coast.

 

[Elixir]

Humans created gods ... to scam other humans.

They wanted the other humans’ stuff. But some of the other humans had gods guarding their stuff. So they needed to develop and deploy a new and improved god to distract or destroy the other humans’ gods while the humans gathered up and stole the other humans’ stuff.

Dolphins never have to deal with that crap.
But dolphins do suffer from food shortages.

 

[aupmanyav]

Not at all. You might as well describe the Mona Lisa as "basically some canvas and paint".

If you set the Mona Lisa on fire, and your defence was that every single one of the atoms that made it still exists, so you haven't destroyed it at all, the judge would quite rightly conclude that you were insane.

A person constantly sheds and replaces parts of himself. Likely there are almost no atoms left in your body that were a part of you at birth. Yet you remain the same person - and on your death, that person ceases to be, despite the persistance of the atoms from which it was made.

Mona Lisa is 'paint job on canvas'. Nothing can change that fact.
Burning it may cause the paint and canvas molecules to change but they will not cease to exist.

That is what Krishna said: "Neither he who thinks the living entity to be the slayer nor he who thinks it slain is in knowledge, for the self slays not, nor is slain." BhagwadGita 2.19

No I am not the same as what I was born. I have changed every minute and will continue to do so till I die, mentally as well as physically. Yeah, a person ceases to be, but that is appearance. Molecules, atoms and what makes them are more important.