Does "Rape Culture" exist?

[Styrofoam]

Jumping in, just responding to the OP...

I think rape culture does exist, but there's a lot of confusion about what exactly is meant by rape culture so the discussion can get contentious. In listening to feminists talk about rape culture, it sounds like what they're talking about is a social cultures that encourages, or at least does not discourage, sexual assault cases like the Steubenville case. I'm bringing up that case specifically because the "culture" was pretty plain; the town elders and elites mostly rallied around the rapists and excused and minimized their actions. But isn't that more an instance of small town high school football culture, in which football comes first above all other concerns? Yes, it is. But feminists use that as evidence that rape culture teaches boys that rape is okay, and that their solution is to "teach boys to not rape."

As a male, that solution seems a bit insulting. Of course I know rape is wrong. Nobody ever told me that sexual assault is an okay thing to do. But, that's because when I (and I think most boys) hear the word "rape" my mind imagines the pervert jumping out of the bushes to grab the jogger. We all know that's a minority of rapes. So what is it that feminists want to teach boys, then? It's that at alcohol-rich frat (etc) parties, it's not acceptable to behave as a sexual predator. Modern party/hookup cultures does say it's acceptable to behave as a predator. There are even schools of "seduction" that use predation as the main strategy.

So that's the problem, drunken hookup culture which creates an atmosphere that leads to rape. That is rape culture.

From my experience in life I think this is BS. I was in one of the largest frat houses in the states largest school. If anything there was a get laid culture but not a rape culture. Lots of drunken sex was going on. But the sorority girls were equal players. Never was rape normalized, excused, tolerated, or even condoned.

I've read recent articles about sex on college campus and it is described as the hook up culture. Students don't want all the baggage that comes with a relationship, but they want to hook up on the weekends.

I think what you have just described is exactly what feminists mean when they say rape culture. They should be calling it hookup culture. The atmospheres of the parties in this hookup culture lead to sexually predatory behavior by males, leading to sexual assault. And every participant, both male and female, in one of those parties is reinforcing the hookup culture. If feminists want to fight rape culture, they're going to have to fight booze-party culture. But that's difficult for them since they can't criticize the sexual choices of any individual woman, and women create these parties too. If a woman wants to get drunk and flirt with strangers that's her choice. But it's gonna reinforce the rape culture surrounding those parties.

Oh, and PS: I'm a feminist.

 

[rousseau]

If you believe that sexual violence is inherent issue in sexual society then it follows that you find this acceptable as i don't think you are advocating for a celibate society. Seems like a big shoulder shrug since you are unlikely to be a victim.

No, it absolutely doesn't follow that I find rape or sexual violence acceptable. In fact, I'm one of the only few males I know personally that is politically active in regards to sexual violence.

This is what I'm saying:

1) Some people think that rape culture exists.

2) These people presume that if they keep running through the streets with a banner, screaming 'STOP RAPING PEOPLE', then one day every irrational person who is likely to commit rape or condone it is magically going to see the light, and we will have a progressive society free of sexual violence.

3) I, with my understanding of human psychology, and biology, don't think that this progressive society is something that's possible, and I think people who believe in a utopia that is free of sexual violence, and actively spend their lives trying to oppose it, are mostly whittling their lives away due to the reality of human nature.

4) Believing that sexual violence is inherent in society is not the same thing as condoning sexual violence or finding it acceptable.

You think rape culture exists, you think it can be stopped, I think society is mostly just working how it's always worked, and how it's always going to work. If you can prove my assertion wrong, I'm all ears.

 

[Bronzeage]

Typing one handed--stupidly cut r. hand badly enough to require stitches so pls excuse typos and not responding to each part separately.

Women like sex. Some women are larger than some men. Women are no more or less likely to have a moral conscience compared with men. Rape is not about sex. Will type it again: RAPE IS NOT ABOUT SEX.

Evidence that rape consequences are discounted: read threads about rape paying particular attn to posts of certain posters. Plenty of jokes from some.

Society is distinct from individuals. Never said everybody--just society in general. Both romantacized (see lots of films, tv, books) as 'pity women who are all weak powerless victims' and rape in these as 'entertainment' and 'storytelling.' Contrast with how universities fail to protect victims, discourage victims from reporting to police, how often charges are not brought, enormous backlog of rape kits, etc. Lots of 'she was asking for it-or she wouldnt have gone there, dressed like that, been drinking, kissed him, led him on, etc. LOTS of victim blaming.

If you believe that sexual violence is inherent issue in sexual society then it follows that you find this acceptable as i don't think you are advocating for a celibate society. Seems like a big shoulder shrug since you are unlikely to be a victim.

You are confused about what i think.

Not everyone in this thread agrees there is a rape culture. Unfortunately it is not such a small subset of people who

Poor baby. I hope your hand feels better.

We have hit the same reef again when you say, "Rape is not about sex." Some rape is. This is because we define rape as a very wide spectrum of behaviors. Violent, forceful rape is seldom about sex. The key elements for the rapist is his control and the fear and anguish of his victim. On the other end of the spectrum, we find a seventeen year old having sex with a perfectly willing and perfectly illegal 15 year old. The law calls this rape and there is no abiguity to the definition. The respective sexes do not matter, only their ages.

Except for violent rapists, no one sees violent rape as an entitlement. Even the violent rapist will carry a "she really wants it this way" fantasy in his twisted brain.

Rape culture exists in the middle ground, where our definition becomes very hazy. The definition of rape and the definition of consent are difficult to pin down. This is where rape culture exists, between violent force and legal definition. The key to rape culture is sexual entitlement and the idea that if sex is offered, the offer cannot be withdrawn. Again, we hit the rocks when someone asks for a definition of offer. For some, walking into a bar, wearing revealing clothes constitutes an offer and refusing a man's advances is withdrawal of the offer.

In a society, such as ours, rape culture continues to exist because we cling to the notion that the woman is responsible for sexual responsibility. It is her burden to accept of deny a man's advances, and if the man can overcome her resistance, it is considered consent. The man is given no charge of responsibility. For rape culture to continue, the myth of overwhelming passion has to be maintained, as well as the myth that a woman is responsible for controlling her allure.

 

[Toni]

Poor baby. I hope your hand feels better.

We have hit the same reef again when you say, "Rape is not about sex." Some rape is. This is because we define rape as a very wide spectrum of behaviors. Violent, forceful rape is seldom about sex. The key elements for the rapist is his control and the fear and anguish of his victim. On the other end of the spectrum, we find a seventeen year old having sex with a perfectly willing and perfectly illegal 15 year old. The law calls this rape and there is no abiguity to the definition. The respective sexes do not matter, only their ages.

Except for violent rapists, no one sees violent rape as an entitlement. Even the violent rapist will carry a "she really wants it this way" fantasy in his twisted brain.

Rape culture exists in the middle ground, where our definition becomes very hazy. The definition of rape and the definition of consent are difficult to pin down. This is where rape culture exists, between violent force and legal definition. The key to rape culture is sexual entitlement and the idea that if sex is offered, the offer cannot be withdrawn. Again, we hit the rocks when someone asks for a definition of offer. For some, walking into a bar, wearing revealing clothes constitutes an offer and refusing a man's advances is withdrawal of the offer.

In a society, such as ours, rape culture continues to exist because we cling to the notion that the woman is responsible for sexual responsibility. It is her burden to accept of deny a man's advances, and if the man can overcome her resistance, it is considered consent. The man is given no charge of responsibility. For rape culture to continue, the myth of overwhelming passion has to be maintained, as well as the myth that a woman is responsible for controlling her allure.

Thanks. Stupid/clumsy of me.

Disagree a little re: statutory rape. Most states have age differential so 15/17 MAY be ok. Not in all states and largely overlooked unless parent is upset and even then. In my area, statutory isn't regarded as real rape, even in one case i remember where the guy was 24 and the girl was 12. Judge thought guy had a hard life. Apparently a 12 year old in bed with a 24 year old is not evidence of also having a hard life and does not merit protection/imtervention. IMO: at least some of the statutory cases are about differences in power: older person is insecure, gets off on being in charge, is able to manipulate 'consent.' I see this as about power for power instead of sex. Thinking specifically about Mary Kay Letourneau and similar teacher/coach and student cases.

Still many cultures which regard women as being submissive to husbands and owing them sex, regardless of their agreement. FAirly recent that laws were on books making marital rape a crime. IN some cultures, it's still not a crime but a given: she should just shut up and submit.

AGRee wiht last paragraph. Further: women responsible for man's erection, which must be satisfied by her. Women who go certain places, dress certain ways, have a drink or more = asking for sex, obviously wanted sex, etc. Cannot change mind, cannot say no, don't mean no. And men in prison: rape is part of sentence and should be expected, joked about. not acceptable.

 

[Toni]

Still big shoulder shrug/throwing hands up/cop out.

also still presuming what I think. Ongoing issue with you.

As far as I know, there has never in the history of mankind been anybody who believed that running through the streets with banners saying stop rape thought that rape would magically disappear. That you make such a statement shows your lack of respect/understanding of the issues.

In fact, attitudes are changing, laws are changing, society is changing. Not perfectly and not fast enough for me, but it is changing.

Re: you being one of the few males you know politically active regards to sexual violence. You are young. You need to meet more/better people.

 

[Derec]

Women are less valued in most societies.

We are not talking about Afhanistan or Saudi Arabia but US where women are very much valued, even above men in many cases.

Even in U.S. where women earn less for same work,

That is a fiction. When adjusting for experience, hours worked etc. the discrepancy disappears. Not to worry, feminists have found the way out - by abandoning "same work" for the vague and manipulable concept of "comparable worth".

where it is assumed they will take leave, etc. to care for kids, blah blah: see other threads for evidence of this.

Well they often do. A man who doesn't take leave should not be punished over a woman who does. Also if you demand that women and men be paid equally without compensating for women taking more leave then men you will end up penalizing a man who takes leave over a woman who doesn't twice.
The only fair solution is to view all employees as individuals, not as representatives of their respective gender and racial groups. But that is anathema in so-called "modern" "liberalism".

Police sometimes reluctant to take calls seriously as conflictd or frightened victims are sometimes not very cooperative.

Or maybe they were not cooperative because they were initially lying? Women are capable of that, you know. But when it comes to DV oftentimes the woman is presumed to be the victim, the man is presumed to be the perpetrator no matter what.

Allegations of rape in military are discounted, not followed up, etc. to large degree, reflecting what happens outside of military.

Really? It looks to me they are followed even where no good evidence exists, like with the case of the commander who got convicted of adultery but not rape because the case was so weak.

Many cultures girl babies less valued, more likely to be aborted based on gender, abandoned, sold.

Nobody is disputing that some cultures are sexist against women. But pointing to those cultures does not make the case ours is. Not by a long shot.

Sex trafficking more girls/women than males.

That's because men have higher demand for sexual services than women and there are more heterosexual men than homosexual ones.
Same reason certain makes of cars are more popular with thieves than others - supply and demand. In other words, women are the ones being trafficked for sex because they are in demand and not because the traffickers hate women particularly.
When sexual services are pushed underground it is no surprise that it encourages things like trafficking. Solution is to legalize voluntary, adult prostitution while committing police resources to target traffickers and abusers, and not waste them to persecute honest johns, hookers and their handlers (sex workers should be allowed to enter voluntary business arrangements with people not themselves sex workers).

Again, sex with someone too drunk to consent is rape.

No argument there. But "too drunk to consent" != "drunk". And what evidence is there that she was indeed too drunk to consent? Zero most likely. Actually, this indicates she was not intoxicated at all!

Charges against Winston's friends support but not valuable player himself support she was too drunk. but he is too valuable.

The "charges" are not criminal charges, but charges by the college kangaroo court. In other words, they are supportive of fuck-all - certainly not of any factual evidence that the still anonymous accuser was "too drunk to consent".

sorry: hand injured/stitches weeping must stop typing

Get better.

 

[The Paul]

If you believe that society in it's current form displays 'rape culture', and you are actively working against it, then by extension you believe that it's possible to make it go away. I don't think that's true for a myriad of a reasons, but the main one being that biological and sexual instincts, and the inability of most of society to think logically, are a much more powerful force than people trying to infuse rationality into those who aren't rational.

Not that I'm against activism involving sexual violence, I actually take part in it myself, I just don't think humanity will ever 'rid' itself of the problem, which is my point.

There's the underlying current here of "If we can't make something perfect we shouldn't bother trying to improve it at all."

People often argue as if they believe that, but they almost never actually do.

 

[Toni]

We are not talking about Afhanistan or Saudi Arabia but US where women are very much valued, even above men in many cases.


That is a fiction. When adjusting for experience, hours worked etc. the discrepancy disappears. Not to worry, feminists have found the way out - by abandoning "same work" for the vague and manipulable concept of "comparable worth".

Bureau of Labor Statistics, MIT, DOJ and others disagree, vehemently. In fact, in recent years, many academic institutions have settled suits and adjusted pay rates precisely due to different pay offered to females vs males, with exactly the same qualifications, teaching loads, research and other responsibilities. Just to lay to rest that the jobs are not the same.

Well they often do. A man who doesn't take leave should not be punished over a woman who does. Also if you demand that women and men be paid equally without compensating for women taking more leave then men you will end up penalizing a man who takes leave over a woman who doesn't twice.
The only fair solution is to view all employees as individuals, not as representatives of their respective gender and racial groups. But that is anathema in so-called "modern" "liberalism".

Your math is wrong. Men can and should be provided paid family leave. Women should be provided paid maternity leave just as all should have paid medical leave.

Or maybe they were not cooperative because they were initially lying? Women are capable of that, you know. But when it comes to DV oftentimes the woman is presumed to be the victim, the man is presumed to be the perpetrator no matter what.

Lying is not gender specific. I've mentioned before that I live in a small community which publishes police and court reports. Women are frequently arrested for domestic violence. However, it is rare that a woman seriously injures a man. Unfortunately, the reverse is not true.

Really? It looks to me they are followed even where no good evidence exists, like with the case of the commander who got convicted of adultery but not rape because the case was so weak.

Yeah, I guess he didn't put his threats to kill her in writing. So it must not have happened.

One of my kids was in the army and talked a great deal of the culture on base. It was bad enough that when we visited as a family, before we arrived, he was adamant that his teenaged sister would go NO WHERE on base without being accompanied by her brothers. Plural. In daylight.

Nobody is disputing that some cultures are sexist against women. But pointing to those cultures does not make the case ours is. Not by a long shot.

Ignoring the sexism that still exists and pointing fingers at cultures which show greater discrimination is not helpful. Not by a long shot.

That's because men have higher demand for sexual services than women and there are more heterosexual men than homosexual ones.
Same reason certain makes of cars are more popular with thieves than others - supply and demand. In other words, women are the ones being trafficked for sex because they are in demand and not because the traffickers hate women particularly.
When sexual services are pushed underground it is no surprise that it encourages things like trafficking. Solution is to legalize voluntary, adult prostitution while committing police resources to target traffickers and abusers, and not waste them to persecute not honest johns, hookers and their handlers (sex workers should be allowed to enter voluntary business arrangements with people not themselves sex workers).

It has nothing to do with the fact that women and girls are less valued, are seen as a commodity by some, whose only value is as a sex worker? Bull shit. Most who work in the sex trade do so because they have or feel they have no other choices. Either physical force or economic conditions place them in harms way. Includes male sex workers, btw. Unfortunately, this is not just true in underdeveloped countries but is a serious issue in my very blue state.

No argument there. But "too drunk to consent" != "drunk". And what evidence is there that she was indeed too drunk to consent? Zero most likely.

The "charges" are not criminal charges, but charges by the college kangaroo court. In other words, they are supportive of fuck-all - certainly not of any factual evidence that the still anonymous accuser was "too drunk to consent".

Eh, the behavior of the 'friends' certainly suggests that they thought she was too drunk to escape. In other words, too drunk. Since the campus police and police dept. refused to investigate, there is no BAC on file.

Get better. [/QUOTE]

Recent articles on military rape:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/3...asked-with-protecting-legal-interests-sexual/

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-suffering-of-male-military-rape-victims.html

http://www.takepart.com/feature/2014/02/12/military-rape-not-just-women

http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/...-within-the-ranks/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

 

[rousseau]

There's the underlying current here of "If we can't make something perfect we shouldn't bother trying to improve it at all."

People often argue as if they believe that, but they almost never actually do.

Agreed, that's something I haven't elaborated on, and I don't believe it, but my random rants have been in reference to the concept of rape culture, and not sexual violence in general. Surely we can act against sexual violence and make some kind of transient difference, we just can't eliminate it. That's not an argument that people should stop acting out against sexual violence, but rather that they might consider being more realistic about what's actually happening.

 

[The Paul]

Agreed, that's something I haven't elaborated on, and I don't believe it, but my random rants have been in reference to the concept of rape culture, and not sexual violence in general. Surely we can act against sexual violence and make some kind of transient difference, we just can't eliminate it. That's not an argument that people should stop acting out against sexual violence, but rather that they might consider being more realistic about what's actually happening.

So you don't think there are cultural elements in society that contribute to one of rape, under-reporting of rape, or a lack of legal response to rape?

You live in the world where Stuebenville happened, where a fraternity caught shit for marching their pledges around campus shouting "No means yes. Yes means anal." Where those weird "Art of seduction" websites are Facebook recommended links, where "The Friendzone" is seen as something evil wretched (For a woman to NOT provide you with sex is a terrible injustice, you see)...

...you don't think anything what I'm talking might be contributing? So what if it can't be completely 100% eliminated? Nothing can ever be made perfect.

 

[ksen]

I agree with all the above . . . except the friendzone one. Friendzoning is evil.

 

[rousseau]

So you don't think there are cultural elements in society that contribute to one of rape, under-reporting of rape, or a lack of legal response to rape?

You live in the world where Stuebenville happened, where a fraternity caught shit for marching their pledges around campus shouting "No means yes. Yes means anal." Where those weird "Art of seduction" websites are Facebook recommended links, where "The Friendzone" is seen as something evil wretched (For a woman to NOT provide you with sex is a terrible injustice, you see)...

...you don't think anything what I'm talking might be contributing? So what if it can't be completely 100% eliminated? Nothing can ever be made perfect.

I've been making an argument against the idea that a 'rape culture' exists. The difference is in the definition of the problem. 'Rape culture' assumes there has been some conscious force that is manifesting rape and the condoning of rape, what I'm saying is that there is no conscious force and that rape is a symptom of a society where the majority of its adult members have sex. If every member of a society was moral and rational regarding this issue, it might not be a problem, but that's not the case.

Either way sexual violence is an issue, but I don't think there is any systemic social force that's causing it, it's just what happens among living, sexual beings. If you want to shift the conversation toward 'how to lessen sexual violence', that's a completely different thread.

 

[The Paul]

'Rape culture' assumes there has been some conscious force that is manifesting rape and the condoning of rape...

It really doesn't assume or imply anything about the existence of a conscious force. In fact, I think it's rather clear through the use of the word "culture" that there is nothing conscious about it. Calling it rape culture implies there are traditions or assumptions that are invisible or that we take for granted which encourage an increased incidence or underreporting of rape. The term is "Rape Culture" not "Cabal of wicked men deliberately conspiring to cause as many rapes as possible."

 

[Toni]

It really doesn't assume or imply anything about the existence of a conscious force. In fact, I think it's rather clear through the use of the word "culture" that there is nothing conscious about it. Calling it rape culture implies there are traditions or assumptions that are invisible or that we take for granted which encourage an increased incidence or underreporting of rape. The term is "Rape Culture" not "Cabal of wicked men deliberately conspiring to cause as many rapes as possible."

exactly. although in some parts of the world, the evil cabals do exist.

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It really doesn't assume or imply anything about the existence of a conscious force. In fact, I think it's rather clear through the use of the word "culture" that there is nothing conscious about it. Calling it rape culture implies there are traditions or assumptions that are invisible or that we take for granted which encourage an increased incidence or underreporting of rape. The term is "Rape Culture" not "Cabal of wicked men deliberately conspiring to cause as many rapes as possible."

exactly. although in some parts of the world, the evil cabals do exist.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Jumping in, just responding to the OP...

I think rape culture does exist, but there's a lot of confusion about what exactly is meant by rape culture so the discussion can get contentious. In listening to feminists talk about rape culture, it sounds like what they're talking about is a social cultures that encourages, or at least does not discourage, sexual assault cases like the Steubenville case. I'm bringing up that case specifically because the "culture" was pretty plain; the town elders and elites mostly rallied around the rapists and excused and minimized their actions. But isn't that more an instance of small town high school football culture, in which football comes first above all other concerns? Yes, it is. But feminists use that as evidence that rape culture teaches boys that rape is okay, and that their solution is to "teach boys to not rape."

I basically agree. I wouldn't call this rape culture, though, but rather sports heroes can do no wrong culture. Rape just happens to be the wrong, it's not the focus.

 

[rousseau]

It really doesn't assume or imply anything about the existence of a conscious force. In fact, I think it's rather clear through the use of the word "culture" that there is nothing conscious about it. Calling it rape culture implies there are traditions or assumptions that are invisible or that we take for granted which encourage an increased incidence or underreporting of rape. The term is "Rape Culture" not "Cabal of wicked men deliberately conspiring to cause as many rapes as possible."

Well if rape culture doesn't refer to a conscious force then we are giving a different label to the same phenomena, which is the resultant of a sexual society. In that case the fight is largely against human nature. But again, I'm not arguing that it shouldn't be done, but rather that in reality it's pretty hard, and probably unending.

 

[Toni]

Well if rape culture doesn't refer to a conscious force then we are giving a different label to the same phenomena, which is the resultant of a sexual society. In that case the fight is largely against human nature. But again, I'm not arguing that it shouldn't be done, but rather that in reality it's pretty hard, and probably unending.

Rape is not the result of a sexual society. It is the result of unequal distribution of power and unwarranted privilege afforded those with power.

 

[rousseau]

Rape is not the result of a sexual society. It is the result of unequal distribution of power and unwarranted privilege afforded those with power.

So if you have 7 billion people who want to have sex, you don't think it's inevitable that rape is going to occur? If almost every society is almost entirely sexualized in the media, and billions of years of evolution have led people to want nothing more than sex, all the time, you don't think that's inevitably going to lead to rape, and a lot of really weird ideas about sex? If the 'rape culture' that you're trying to define isn't a conscious force, where exactly do you think these unconscious assumptions come from?

 

[Bronzeage]

Thanks. Stupid/clumsy of me.

Disagree a little re: statutory rape. Most states have age differential so 15/17 MAY be ok. Not in all states and largely overlooked unless parent is upset and even then. In my area, statutory isn't regarded as real rape, even in one case i remember where the guy was 24 and the girl was 12. Judge thought guy had a hard life. Apparently a 12 year old in bed with a 24 year old is not evidence of also having a hard life and does not merit protection/imtervention. IMO: at least some of the statutory cases are about differences in power: older person is insecure, gets off on being in charge, is able to manipulate 'consent.' I see this as about power for power instead of sex. Thinking specifically about Mary Kay Letourneau and similar teacher/coach and student cases.

Still many cultures which regard women as being submissive to husbands and owing them sex, regardless of their agreement. FAirly recent that laws were on books making marital rape a crime. IN some cultures, it's still not a crime but a given: she should just shut up and submit.

AGRee wiht last paragraph. Further: women responsible for man's erection, which must be satisfied by her. Women who go certain places, dress certain ways, have a drink or more = asking for sex, obviously wanted sex, etc. Cannot change mind, cannot say no, don't mean no. And men in prison: rape is part of sentence and should be expected, joked about. not acceptable.

The reason the crime of statutory rape exists in our society is because we recognize there are situations where a person may consent and be eager to have sex with someone, but we don't think it's a good idea. To counter this issue, instead of arguing about who wants who, we make it a math problem. All that is needed is for someone to do the arithmetic and consult the statute. No law is perfect and there has never been a perfectly enforced law. The major problem with statutory rape prosecutions is getting the cooperation of the younger partner and his/her family. Often, the family does not want to go through the process, they just want the defendant to go away. In Louisiana, a 16 year old can get married to a person of any age, with parental consent. This can get complicated, because in effect, the parent has given their child consent to have sex. What this means in the real world is, if a parent wants to prosecute for statutory, it must be done immediately when they suspect what is happening. If they do nothing(knowing the minor is staying overnight, has a person in their bedroom at night, etc), it is consent under the law. Just as permission to marry cannot be withdrawn, neither can their tacit consent for a minor to engage in sex with an older person. This only applies to minors of the legal marriage age.

In most states, the case of the 24 year old and the 12 year old would be classified as "aggravated rape." That's the great thing about statutes. They can be fine tuned, as needed.

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I basically agree. I wouldn't call this rape culture, though, but rather sports heroes can do no wrong culture. Rape just happens to be the wrong, it's not the focus.

Try it this way: Big sports hero can have any woman he wants, so why would he need to rape a woman. The woman who accuses him of rape must be lying.

There's your rape culture.

 

[Toni]

So if you have 7 billion people who want to have sex, you don't think it's inevitable that rape is going to occur? If almost every society is almost entirely sexualized in the media, and billions of years of evolution have led people to want nothing more than sex, all the time, you don't think that's inevitably going to lead to rape, and a lot of really weird ideas about sex? If the 'rape culture' that you're trying to define isn't a conscious force, where exactly do you think these unconscious assumptions come from?

Answered already. rape is about power--talking forcible and not statuatory although some statutory rape I think is about power as well. The Paul addressed origins better than I have or perhaps you will respond better to his explanations than to mine. I am not trying to define rape culture.

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The reason the crime of statutory rape exists in our society is because we recognize there are situations where a person may consent and be eager to have sex with someone, but we don't think it's a good idea. To counter this issue, instead of arguing about who wants who, we make it a math problem. All that is needed is for someone to do the arithmetic and consult the statute. No law is perfect and there has never been a perfectly enforced law. The major problem with statutory rape prosecutions is getting the cooperation of the younger partner and his/her family. Often, the family does not want to go through the process, they just want the defendant to go away. In Louisiana, a 16 year old can get married to a person of any age, with parental consent. This can get complicated, because in effect, the parent has given their child consent to have sex. What this means in the real world is, if a parent wants to prosecute for statutory, it must be done immediately when they suspect what is happening. If they do nothing(knowing the minor is staying overnight, has a person in their bedroom at night, etc), it is consent under the law. Just as permission to marry cannot be withdrawn, neither can their tacit consent for a minor to engage in sex with an older person. This only applies to minors of the legal marriage age.

In most states, the case of the 24 year old and the 12 year old would be classified as "aggravated rape." That's the great thing about statutes. They can be fine tuned, as needed.

Agree. And in most counties in my state. My county just seems to be particularly fucked up in this regard. IDGI

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Try it this way: Big sports hero can have any woman he wants, so why would he need to rape a woman. The woman who accuses him of rape must be lying.

There's your rape culture.

Exactly.