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Does the political correctness on the left over-reach, turning people people off and causing them seek out opinions on the far right?

If you were a victim of racism you would be able to see it more clearly.

Or when encountering the police, feel it.

I was talking with an 83 year old black man last week. He told me about being denied entrance to college based on race and the racism he encountered in a segregated US Army.

Have his grandchildren been harmed because he was denied opportunity based on race?

Ah yes, I forgot. While I'm dark enough to qualify as a minority, I'm not qualified to comment on race when there are even darker minorities present.

You can comment on how you are treated by the police and by others.

I don't know what else you could comment on in terms of the lives black Americans face, even today.

How much wealth has been stripped from the black community just in the last 100 years due to legal racism?
 
Then stop lecturing me about race.

You brought the whole fucking thing up.

Today I see more general sadism in Americans than racism.

But when there is a lot of sadism those in the lower classes, those least able to defend themselves, get the brunt of it.
 
There are many issues in the world today that need to be discussed openly but are stifled by political correctness.

The ubiquitous, conversation ending accusation of racism, sexism, what-ever-ism, for instance, can stop many conversations around race, violence, immigration, education and policy issues if there is any hint of non-political-correct component. The same is for anything under the heading of 'intersectional' issues. We simply cannot even have the conversation if one side refuses to talk and respond in good faith to opposing ideas.



I see this as an over-reach on the political left and I think it turns many rationalists off. One blogger noted that this has serious implications beyond internet battles.

For instance, Europe is in a situation where the left will hurl accusations of racism at anyone who questions the wisdom of large scale Muslim immigration. This refusal to have a serious conversation by the left is causing the rise of many far right organizations that have no such fear and are wining the argument with ideas that should be met with a sensible alternative.

I experienced this first hand a couple of months ago when I was looking into debunking the 'big list of crime stats' often posted by stormfront types. Nobody on the rationalist/atheist forum I was posting would even engage on the issue. They consistently fell into fallacies such as 'those guys are bad therefor their stats are wrong' or 'examining racist claims gives them a platform' or 'you are racist for looking into their claims'. They would do anything but actually help debunk the statistics. The result was that people reading the exchange came away with the idea that these racists might have something to their argument.



This type of head-in-the-sand approach across the left in western countries is giving (sometimes far) right political voices the only voice on many issues. I see this as a terrible failure of the left.

Is this a problem, and if so, what should be done?

Certainly the over reach of the left is something to call out when it happens. I have serious problems with cries against "cultural appropriation."

But i don't see many rational people embracing the load of drivel that is required to be a conservative here in the US because of liberal over reach.

The negative impact can be real but fall short of fully embracing the whole US conservative agenda. For example, it can make some people who already are not left-wing faithers but who usually side with and view the left as the lesser evil become more neutral and less committed to voting against the GOP. IOW, it could lose the left elections and policy fights because people that would otherwise side with them and/or vote Dem, instead don't vote, vote 3rd party, or are willing to sometimes vote for particular GOP candidate without supporting the GOP in general.

Speaking personally, despite being often nauseated by unreasoned, harmful, thought stifling agendas of the most vocal, outrage machines on the left, I have always voted Dem and will be unlikely to ever vote for a GOP candidate in my lifetime. That's because I don't vote on specific issues or really care about the individual candidates. I vote based upon the more foundational worldview and values of the people represented by the parties, and the GOP base is mostly people who are dangerously ignorant and/or adhere to a worldview rooted in intolerance and the unreason of faith. But I can imagine that another person who doesn't take this more aggregated, party-level, long-term view in the voting decisions could be pushed away enough by the same left-wing nonsense that bothers me, and alter their political actions in ways that empower the GOP and the right.
 
Good point. How much wealth was stripped from Mexico when the US took Texas and California?

True, it is a good point, and your point is not as off as you may imagine.

When Mexicans cross into the US they are only returning to their rightful home.

The people of the Republic of Texas liberated themselves from Mexico. The US occupied Texas later.

The people living in Mexico now were not the "rightful owners of Texas", but are the descendants of the imperialist Mexican oppressors who oppressed the noble Texans who were living in Texas.
 
Also, Texas started a war against the US which it lost and the US took control of their territory through rite of battle. Any previous claims to the ownership of Texas became invalidated at that point.
 
Also, Texas started a war against the US which it lost and the US took control of their territory through rite of battle. Any previous claims to the ownership of Texas became invalidated at that point.

Mexico started no war.

The US wanted California and what is now Arizona and New Mexico.

Read what US Grant had to say about that war of US aggression.

Of course in the minds of some it was an act of defense, as all acts of national aggression become if successful.
 
Also, Texas started a war against the US which it lost and the US took control of their territory through rite of battle. Any previous claims to the ownership of Texas became invalidated at that point.

Mexico started no war.

Mexico won Texas as a spoil in a war it started with Spain. But then the noble Texans living in the land threw the imperial Mexican armies out and began a period of self rule.
 
Also, Texas started a war against the US which it lost and the US took control of their territory through rite of battle. Any previous claims to the ownership of Texas became invalidated at that point.

Mexico started no war.

The US wanted California and what is now Arizona and New Mexico.

Read what US Grant had to say about that war of US aggression.

Of course in the minds of some it was an act of defense, as all acts of national aggression become if successful.

I didn't say Mexico started a war, so that's an odd nonsequiter.

Texas started a war against the US and the US won. That makes Texas theirs. If Mexico has a problem with that, they're free to try and take control of Texas the same way.
 
Mexico won Texas as a spoil in a war it started with Spain. But then the noble Texans living in the land threw the imperial Mexican armies out and began a period of self rule.

So you think Spain had more rights to the land than the people living there?

Not after they lost a war against them, they didn't.
 
Not after they lost a war against them, they didn't.

You know we live in a post United Nations world?

We are not in the Wild West anymore.

The rules of international affairs have been updated since the early 19th Century.

Ya, but we're talking about 19th century events. The US won Texas fair and square and invalidated any earlier claims to ownership.
 
You know we live in a post United Nations world?

We are not in the Wild West anymore.

The rules of international affairs have been updated since the early 19th Century.

Ya, but we're talking about 19th century events. The US won Texas fair and square and invalidated any earlier claims to ownership.

Obviously Texas isn't going anywhere, but Mexicans should be allowed to immigrate at larger numbers than other groups due to our judgements today.

They have valid claims based on our current understandings. If I can force somebody out of their mansion, I don't legally own it.
 
KN
Ya, but we're talking about 19th century events. The US won Texas fair and square and invalidated any earlier claims to ownership.

Obviously Texas isn't going anywhere, but Mexicans should be allowed to immigrate at larger numbers than other groups due to our judgements today.

They have valid claims based on our current understandings. If I can force somebody out of their mansion, I don't legally own it.

But our current understandings weren't in force at the time which mattered. If you force someone out of their mansion in a totally legal manner and your family lives in it for a few hundred years and then that guy's distant descendants show up, they're now just strangers who want to stay in your mansion. Their claim to it is long gone, even if the legal manner in which your ancestors took it is no longer legal.
 
The US and Texas did not go to war with each other. US settlers that moved to the Texas territory of Mexico decided they didn't like Mexican rule, even though they moved to Mexico, and rebelled. They won, with the help of many US volunteers. Then Texas joined the US, then the US and Mexico went to war and the US took California, Arizona, and New Mexico as well.

The only time Texas fought against the US was during the Civil War as members of the Confederate States, and that was some years later.
 
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