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Donald the Orange and Family Sued in NY

Nah. I see no reason to “cry.” I also don’t expect that the appellate system is as woebegone as the underlying “trials” when it comes to these political persecutions.

Ah, the persecution complex.

A "billionaire" who was given every opportunity afforded to a spoiled child of wealth commits multiple crimes over the course of his life and all of a sudden he's being "persecuted."

He's being treated with kid gloves and every bit of deference by the courts and the criminal justice system. If he were anyone else, the moment those classified documents turned up missing he'd have a bunch of FBI guys at his house, they wouldn't politely ask for permission to come in, and he'd have been cooling his heels in federal prison awaiting trial ever since. Two-tiered justice, indeed.
 
Ah, the persecution complex.
That has been the Crybaby-in-Chief’s chief complaint for decades. Now his supplicants have picked up the ball and are trying to run with it. Not a flattering picture.

Two-tiered justice, indeed

Nah. There’s only one “tier” for everyone. But then there’s Trump. Trump is so far immune, living above the law.
He has paid not one penny, nor spent a single night in jail. Anyone else would be serving life or sitting on death row.
 
DI, you really believe this is just a political persecution? Biden’s doing?
The Don himself couldn’t have said it better.
I take it, then, that DJT has never done anything wrong, illegal or unethical? In your opinion, that is.
Amirite?
If so, I demur. There’s no reasoning with crazy.
Ok. Then I guess I won’t bother trying to discuss anything with you.

The answer to your question, though is “yes.” I do believe that all 4 criminal cases against Trump are mere political persecutions. I also see the hand of the DNC as being involved. I don’t believe there’s much question that Fani received instructions (or coordination advice) from Biden’s DOJ. NY State’s unscrupulous AG campaigned on going after Trump. And she managed to land a hack like Engoran as just the judge for the role.

Similarly, NY county DA Bragg is a disaster far more concerned with politics than with doing the actual job of an elected DA. (Some folks recognize that it’s supposed to have something to do with prosecuting actual crimes.)

The federal cases by not very Special Persecutor Smith are pathetic. And yet again, I don’t rule out possible convictions. I do harbor some hope in the Federal appellate process.
there are still other avenues to seek corrections.

Yeah, Mr Navalny found out about that this week. Or did you have some in mind you can actually talk about?
That ^ was a meaningless rejoinder. Perhaps you don’t consider an appellate avenue beyond the NY State Appellate Division and the NY State Court of Appeals. But I do.
 
Nah. I see no reason to “cry.” I also don’t expect that the appellate system is as woebegone as the underlying “trials” when it comes to these political persecutions.

Ah, the persecution complex.

A "billionaire" who was given every opportunity afforded to a spoiled child of wealth commits multiple crimes over the course of his life and all of a sudden he's being "persecuted."

He's being treated with kid gloves and every bit of deference by the courts and the criminal justice system. If he were anyone else, the moment those classified documents turned up missing he'd have a bunch of FBI guys at his house, they wouldn't politely ask for permission to come in, and he'd have been cooling his heels in federal prison awaiting trial ever since. Two-tiered justice, indeed.
Nonsense.
 
A mistaken estimate is not the same as a deliberate deception.
Right. And a decades-long PATTERN of deception is not a mistaken estimate. You were obviously not present for all the testimony.

As Judge Angoran correctly observed:

Judge Engoran did not “correctly” observe the things he claimed. He was just an overly partisan hack.
On the reaction of Trump and his adult sons:
“Their complete lack of contrition and remorse borders on pathological. They are accused only of inflating asset values to make more money. The documents prove this over and over again. This is a venial sin, not a mortal sin. Defendants did not commit murder or arson. They did not rob a bank at gunpoint. Donald Trump is not Bernard Madoff. Yet, defendants are incapable of admitting the error of their ways. Instead, they adopt a ‘See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil’ posture that the evidence belies.”
Trump owes nobody contrition when he did nothing illegal or unethical or wrong.
On being confronted with their misdeeds:
“In order to borrow more and at lower rates, defendants submitted blatantly false financial data to the accountants, resulting in fraudulent financial statements. When confronted at trial with the statements, defendants’ fact and expert witnesses simply denied reality, and defendants failed to accept responsibility or to impose internal controls to prevent future recurrences.”
The claim that Trump and company submitted “blatantly false” data is itself false. Part of the judge’s partisan bias was thereby revealed.
On the severity of the penalty:
“In considering the need for ongoing injunctive relief, this Court is mindful that this action is not the first time the Trump Organization or its related entities has been found to have engaged in corporate malfeasance. Of course, the more evidence there is of defendants’ ongoing propensity to engage in fraud, the more need there is for the Court to impose stricter injunctive relief. This is not defendants’ first rodeo.”
Any claimed prior “findings” of corporate “malfeasance” have nothing to do with whether (or not) he and the company engaged in any in this matter.
On Trump as a witness:
“Overall, Donald Trump rarely responded to the questions asked, and he frequently interjected long, irrelevant speeches on issues far beyond the scope of the trial. His refusal to answer the questions directly, or in some cases, at all, severely compromised his credibility.”
Nonsense. President Trump addressed matters very pertinent to what he was being subjected to. The judge didn’t want any of it mentioned. No surprise there.

I expect this abortion of a verdict and judgment to be overturned largely on the basis of some of what Trump was addressing. The judge perhaps didn’t want those complaints preserved on the future appellate record.
@DeplorableInfidel you would do well to read the transcripts, and ferret out any part where you feel that the judge's findings of fact were in error. Every legal mind I know has expressed confidence that this case was conducted very conservatively with the inevitable appeal (delay) in mind, and is quite airtight. I wonder where you got the idea that the judge was in error.

Oh, wait.... no I don't. It's pretty apparent where you got that notion.
You are in error having been misled not just by the AG and the biased judge but by the sloppy media misreporting the alleged “facts.”

In the immortal words of Ahnold: I’ll be back.

Shorter DI,
Uhm. No. You’re free to read or not.
 

The answer to your question, though is “yes.” I do believe that all 4 criminal cases against Trump are mere political persecutions. I also see the hand of the DNC as being involved. I don’t believe there’s much question that Fani received instructions (or coordination advice) from Biden’s DOJ.


What you 'believe' or 'see' doesn't matter. If you have something empirical to show, go for it.
 
Trump owes nobody contrition when he did nothing illegal or unethical or wrong.
What colour is the sky on your planet?
He’s referring to April 14th, 1968. That was the last time Hair Furor didn’t do anything illegal, unethical or wrong.
No. I’m sure President Trump has made mistakes. Like all of us mere humans, mistakes and so forth are inevitable. But I bet you knew that’s not what I was alluding to.

Here’s a fun fact. One can be accused of a crime or crimes and yet not be guilty. I know, right? Astounding.
 
Nice ad hominem. But otherwise, a terrible post.
Uh, it wasn’t about you, Deplo. It was about the vacuity of your “nope” argument.
My comment was no more vacuous than your initial claim. If anything, at least my “nope” was more concise.
Are you ever going to address the FACTS that I and others have raised, or answer the questions about them that have been posed?
I’ll leave the comparative vacuity judgment call in your capable hands. But it would help if you could address the facts and the questions about them that you have so far ignored.
What alleged “facts” are you referencing?

I’ll leave your claims about vacuousness to you, too.

It would be helpful if you could make a claim as to what you’re talking about when you discuss “facts.” Thanks in advance.
 
Overly partisan hacks abound.
They’re EVERYWHERE!!!
Jack Smith, Letitia James, Fani Willis… all the judges except Trump’s handpicked sycophant whose righteous findings are routinely found to be extrajudicial and overreaching by higher courts (she’s the only righteous one)… except for her, they’re ALL overly partisan hacks, if they hold Trump responsible for his actions.

Dep, you just might wasting your time around here, but thanks for the entertainment, and the insight into religious Trump-induced psychosis.
Buh bye now!
 
Overly partisan hacks abound.
They’re EVERYWHERE!!!
Jack Smith, Letitia James, Fani Willis… all the judges except Trump’s handpicked sycophant whose righteous findings are routinely found to be extrajudicial and overreaching by higher courts (she’s the only righteous one)… they’re ALL overly partisan hacks, if they hold Trump responsible for his actions.

Dep, you just might wasting your time around here, but thanks for the entertainment, and the insight into religious Trump-induced psychosis.
Buh bye now!
Elixir:

Your devoted reliance on the fallacy of ad hominem argument that is noted. But, it’s not even remotely persuasive.

Maybe, someday, if you’re feeling your oats, you can muster up a cogent way to dispute that the legal attacks against Trump are partisan politics rather than valid legal complaints.

Until then, have fun in your fantasy world.
 
Trump owes nobody contrition when he did nothing illegal or unethical or wrong.
What colour is the sky on your planet?
He’s referring to April 14th, 1968. That was the last time Hair Furor didn’t do anything illegal, unethical or wrong.
No. I’m sure President Trump has made mistakes. Like all of us mere humans, mistakes and so forth are inevitable. But I bet you knew that’s not what I was alluding to.

Here’s a fun fact. One can be accused of a crime or crimes and yet not be guilty. I know, right? Astounding.

You weren’t asked about “mistakes”, like the colossal mistake Trump made in running for public office when his whole wealth and reputation was built on activities that would get him in trouble if he became famous enough for people to look at them.

You were asked if you thought Trump had ever done anything illegal or unethical or wrong.
 
Put it simply: no victim; no fraud. A mistaken estimate is not the same as a deliberate deception. But even in the darkest light, if there is no victim, there is no fraud.
Trump over valued for banks and under valued for taxing authorities. The people of New York were certainly victims of his fraud.
Nope. The people of NY were not victims of any such thing. Valuations tend to be largely subjective, anyway. Even a formal appraisal is not compelling evidence of “value.” Just consider how the judge himself failed to grasp the actual value of Mar A Lago.
So having two different valuations for the exact same property is A-Okay with you? High valuations to banks, low valuations to taxing authorities. Both money for team Trump.
A valuation of what you maintain a piece of property is worth for one purpose has to be distinguished from some other valuation addressing other issues.

Again, if the village tax assessor claims my abode is worth only “X” for purposes taxation, that doesn’t mean that I’m only able to offer it for sale at that price. And if I am seeking a loan based on my own estimate of what the property is actually worth, I can make use of my own estimation of that value in my an loan application

In short, yes. The same property can be valued differently depending on the purpose of the respective valuations. Lying isn’t permitted. But valuation addressing different issues are allowed to vary.
 

The answer to your question, though is “yes.” I do believe that all 4 criminal cases against Trump are mere political persecutions. I also see the hand of the DNC as being involved. I don’t believe there’s much question that Fani received instructions (or coordination advice) from Biden’s DOJ.


What you 'believe' or 'see' doesn't matter. If you have something empirical to show, go for it.
When I am asked what I believe, stating what I believe certainly does matter. You’re free to disagree.

Now, if you wish to discuss why I happen to maintain that the 4 criminal cases against Trump are all partisan political persecutions disconnected from any actual criminality, that’s a different set of questions.

And they’d need to be addressed individually and perhaps at greater length as in each case.
 
Nah. I see no reason to “cry.” I also don’t expect that the appellate system is as woebegone as the underlying “trials” when it comes to these political persecutions.

Ah, the persecution complex.

A "billionaire" who was given every opportunity afforded to a spoiled child of wealth commits multiple crimes over the course of his life and all of a sudden he's being "persecuted."

He's being treated with kid gloves and every bit of deference by the courts and the criminal justice system. If he were anyone else, the moment those classified documents turned up missing he'd have a bunch of FBI guys at his house, they wouldn't politely ask for permission to come in, and he'd have been cooling his heels in federal prison awaiting trial ever since. Two-tiered justice, indeed.
Nonsense.

Care to elaborate? Or are you just going to "nope" out of everything?
 

Now, if you wish to discuss why I happen to maintain that the 4 criminal cases against Trump are all partisan political persecutions disconnected from any actual criminality, that’s a different set of questions.

And they’d need to be addressed individually and perhaps at greater length as in each case.
I have an inkling that all your analysis of these indictments will be based on feelings rather than facts. Because you're clearly here to spread Trump talking points, hence your username. Let me guess, it's all part of a "Deep State" conspiracy hatched in the basement of Comet Ping Pong in a smoke-filled back room with George Soros at the head of the table?
 

The answer to your question, though is “yes.” I do believe that all 4 criminal cases against Trump are mere political persecutions. I also see the hand of the DNC as being involved. I don’t believe there’s much question that Fani received instructions (or coordination advice) from Biden’s DOJ.


What you 'believe' or 'see' doesn't matter. If you have something empirical to show, go for it.
Right wing extremists just make shit up. But it’s rare that they admit it like this one.
He probably thinks Cheato won the 2000 election too.
 
Put it simply: no victim; no fraud. A mistaken estimate is not the same as a deliberate deception. But even in the darkest light, if there is no victim, there is no fraud.
Trump over valued for banks and under valued for taxing authorities. The people of New York were certainly victims of his fraud.
Nope. The people of NY were not victims of any such thing. Valuations tend to be largely subjective, anyway. Even a formal appraisal is not compelling evidence of “value.” Just consider how the judge himself failed to grasp the actual value of Mar A Lago.
So having two different valuations for the exact same property is A-Okay with you? High valuations to banks, low valuations to taxing authorities. Both money for team Trump.
A valuation of what you maintain a piece of property is worth for one purpose has to be distinguished from some other valuation addressing other issues.

Again, if the village tax assessor claims my abode is worth only “X” for purposes taxation, that doesn’t mean that I’m only able to offer it for sale at that price. And if I am seeking a loan based on my own estimate of what the property is actually worth, I can make use of my own estimation of that value in my an loan application

In short, yes. The same property can be valued differently depending on the purpose of the respective valuations. Lying isn’t permitted. But valuation addressing different issues are allowed to vary.

In a discussion of "high valuations" and "low valuations," one can observe there is no "moderate" or middle valuation. Ergo, in context, the poster probably did not intend a literal rendering of two valuations may not differ but instead _significantly_, i.e. some threshold where it is no longer reasonable. High and low....I don't think a factor of 2x, for example, would be cause for a reasonable inference of fraud...but here we are talking 23x. Tax assessor valuation of X and Trump valuation of 23X.

But this observation wasn't the only fact at play in inferring fraud. There was also lying about SIZE of another property that inflated its valuation and other discrepancies with properties that could not be explained by some excuse of uniqueness of the property.
 
There was also lying about SIZE of another property that inflated its valuation and other discrepancies with properties that could not be explained by some excuse of uniqueness of the property.
Yeah that's one of the fact sets that Deplo won't touch.
But I think I know what he would say if he did tackle the problem.

"NOPE!"

 
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