During the 10 hours I was reporting on this story, I was groped 22 times.

[Jobar]

i don't really think it's moving the goalposts, i think it's simply that the links confirm what we all know - that power and dominance and violence and a host of other aberrant crap - plays a part in violent crime, but i don't see how that's unique or specific to cases involving sex.
in my (granted limited, i'm not criminal case worker nor member of a study group) experience with men who are sexually violent towards women, they're all about dominance and power tripping in every aspect of their lives, from sex down to getting to pick which donut they want from the box.

thus i don't think that showing that the two can or often does exist simultaneously within the same act proves that the one is the cause of the act in the first place.

I don't think it's unique or specific to cases involving sex. As you say, these are people who are about dominance and control in almost every aspect of their lives. I might be inclined to say that the need for dominance and control is the cause of all of their acts... including rape. Getting to pick their donut from the box isn't just because they want a donut - they want to dominate the selection and exert their power over everyone else. In that sense, it can seem to be a bit of 'misdirection' to say that their violence toward the donut-box-holder is due to their instinct to eat when hungry

IMO the basic physiological fact that produces rape, is that males produce billions of gametes over their lifetimes, while females only produce a few thousand. This means that males often tend to spread their genes with little regard for the success of an individual offspring, but females have to be much more choosy, if they are to pass on their genetic heritage. Rape is a reproductive strategy sometimes adopted by males, from the simplest animals to the most complex.

While this may explain rape, it's certainly not meant to excuse it. You might look at it as something like parasitism- and who likes parasites? But unfortunately parasitism is also a successful survival strategy for many, many species.

 

[Emily Lake]

i don't really think it's moving the goalposts, i think it's simply that the links confirm what we all know - that power and dominance and violence and a host of other aberrant crap - plays a part in violent crime, but i don't see how that's unique or specific to cases involving sex.
in my (granted limited, i'm not criminal case worker nor member of a study group) experience with men who are sexually violent towards women, they're all about dominance and power tripping in every aspect of their lives, from sex down to getting to pick which donut they want from the box.

thus i don't think that showing that the two can or often does exist simultaneously within the same act proves that the one is the cause of the act in the first place.

I don't think it's unique or specific to cases involving sex. As you say, these are people who are about dominance and control in almost every aspect of their lives. I might be inclined to say that the need for dominance and control is the cause of all of their acts... including rape. Getting to pick their donut from the box isn't just because they want a donut - they want to dominate the selection and exert their power over everyone else. In that sense, it can seem to be a bit of 'misdirection' to say that their violence toward the donut-box-holder is due to their instinct to eat when hungry

View attachment 15739

I've seen that pic before, and I've always loved it

IMO the basic physiological fact that produces rape, is that males produce billions of gametes over their lifetimes, while females only produce a few thousand. This means that males often tend to spread their genes with little regard for the success of an individual offspring, but females have to be much more choosy, if they are to pass on their genetic heritage. Rape is a reproductive strategy sometimes adopted by males, from the simplest animals to the most complex.

While this may explain rape, it's certainly not meant to excuse it. You might look at it as something like parasitism- and who likes parasites? But unfortunately parasitism is also a successful survival strategy for many, many species.

Okay, serious question for you here. Do you believe that rapists rape because they want children?

 

[Horatio Parker]

I think people who deny that rape is about power are confused.

Suppose you have a strong, overriding desire that anyone you drink coffee with should also always use sugar. So much so, that your coffee drinking partners will also have to use sugar, by force if necessary.

Is the problem your views on sugar with coffee or your use of force to make it so?

Take your time...

 

[prideandfall]

I think people who deny that rape is about power are confused.

Suppose you have a strong, overriding desire that anyone you drink coffee with should also always use sugar. So much so, that your coffee drinking partners will also have to use sugar, by force if necessary.

Is the problem your views on sugar with coffee or your use of force to make it so?

Take your time...

if there were millions of years of evolutionary biology coding the DNA of every male to compulsive need to have coffee with other people and for them to use sugar, you might have a point here.

as it stands however, the whole "rape is about power" canard is just over-complicating a simpler problem... what you're essentially trying to argue is that robbing a bank isn't about a desire for money, it's about pointing guns at people. that having a job isn't about getting paid, it's about wearing business casual clothing. that sleep isn't about rest, it's about the thread count of your sheets.
sure in each case those extraneous psychological factors may play a part in it on a case-by-case basis, or even form a pattern wherein people with certain predispositions to those secondary characteristics are more likely to engage in that behavior, but ultimately the starting factor that begins the chain of events that leads to the criminal activity is far simple: money, sleep, sex, etc.

 

[Horatio Parker]

I think people who deny that rape is about power are confused.

Suppose you have a strong, overriding desire that anyone you drink coffee with should also always use sugar. So much so, that your coffee drinking partners will also have to use sugar, by force if necessary.

Is the problem your views on sugar with coffee or your use of force to make it so?

Take your time...

if there were millions of years of evolutionary biology coding the DNA of every male to compulsive need to have coffee with other people and for them to use sugar, you might have a point here.

as it stands however, the whole "rape is about power" canard is just over-complicating a simpler problem... what you're essentially trying to argue is that robbing a bank isn't about a desire for money, it's about pointing guns at people. that having a job isn't about getting paid, it's about wearing business casual clothing. that sleep isn't about rest, it's about the thread count of your sheets.
sure in each case those extraneous psychological factors may play a part in it on a case-by-case basis, or even form a pattern wherein people with certain predispositions to those secondary characteristics are more likely to engage in that behavior, but ultimately the starting factor that begins the chain of events that leads to the criminal activity is far simple: money, sleep, sex, etc.

You're right: robbing banks is not about desire for money, it's about taking what doesn't belong to you by force. Your other examples are off the rails.